Just purchased a Western Flyer Hiawatha

[silverbear]

Pat's tanks are stainless steel. He only makes them for the Worksman Newsboy and the Schwinn Panther (straight bar).
I have no idea what my tank will hold. It is the size that looks right to me. I don't want it any wider. Since I don't usually ride more than 30 miles or so at a stretch I'm not concerned about how much it holds. More than enough. I can always carry more gas in the sidecar anyway.
SB

 

[leaded50]

If you decide to use the original fake tank parts, its a way to do it....just make inner parts shaped to meet the tubes, and weld it to the outer fake parts. That gives you two halves, join them with a pipe/hose in the lowest part, and youve got it! Fill just in one, vent on both.

se figs under:

 

[porch lizard]

Hi leaded50... I've been watching your build on that beautiful turquoise bike. You'll have quite the machine when finished. I'll have to check out your progress after this post. You're right in that I could put those two halves of the fake tank together to make a functional gas tank. I would have to figure out how to keep them together as originally, the two halves are screwed together right in the middle. Maybe some straps that go around the bottom tube the tank parts and the top tube. It would work, and I'm going to re-think using them. My big concern was to make a tank that would hold 1.5 gals. of gas at least, but if I did a second tank behind the seat, I think that might do it. I've got some nice brass cylinders that could be made into a tank that I could use as a reserve tank, and mount it behind the seat, like some others have done. They have mounted them crosswise and resemble the round tool bags. I filled up one half of the fake tank, and it can hold 40 -50 ozs. making the two halves around 3/4 of a gal. A 3/4 gal. extra tank would get me close enough to the 1.5 gal capacity that I'm looking for. What kind of tank do you have on yours? I looked on your bike build thread, but didn't see what you did for a gas tank. (maybe I missed it).

 

[leaded50]

Hi, Thanks!!
if using the fake one, you could also weld a new strip of metal around the hole edge as the shape it have now,on each part ,before inner plate,(the sides would be wider then) and you got more gas..(tank got wider)

My tank is shaped of flat steel, hammered used same technique as in automotive repair, in "old style" manual work....and mine does use straps in st.steel on upper and lower tube of tank. Only one side is used as tank, the other is for the electrical equioment, and storage place for tools,etc.

 

[leaded50]

As on this scetch. (se the differences of the profil width of the both sides)
To mount is as orginally, screw trough on both parts.....just weld a small pipe trough both half ones, and put screw trough.
If you then did follow the contour of the tubes on the inner sides, it will clamp straight on place, with tubes in center, holding it at place..
. .

 

[porch lizard]

Hi Leaded50.... Thanks for your suggestions. I'll keep them in mind when building a new tank. I picked up some used sheet metal from a pressure tank from a water well system, and plan on trying to shape a new gas tank from it. It's kind of thick but should take the pounding from shaping it into a curved tank. It should be easy to weld too. I've checked out your Star bike and it looks like you're ready to ride! Nice looking!!!

 

[leaded50]

"The end is near"...nearly.on my bike......wait for the last parts, and that some snow & ice goes away for a testride!

Nice to be at help, Good Luck about the pressure tank , mainly it will work, but as said, harder to shape, but easier to weld.......

 

[porch lizard]

Finally solved the Hiawatha mystery bike. It's a 1951 Gambles Hiawatha "St. Croix" model. Original price was $57.95 Original color was : frame - grey; fake tank - black with red trim; fenders - grey with red pinstripes. The front basket and chain guard are after market pieces, but the tires ( although disintegrating ) are original. I also have a second Hiawatha but it is the Seneca model also from 1950-1951, originally red frame with white, red pinstriped fenders. Completely restored, these bikes are valued between $525- $625 or more. All this info and more came from Leon Dixon of the NBHAA (National Bicycle Historical Archive Association ) . I'm using the Hiawatha Seneca as my next (2nd) MaB bike project, and hope it comes out good looking. It will have a in-frame, real gas tank instead of the fake one, and 2-stroke engine. It might look something like this, with engine.

 

[brett7777]

such nice looking bikes...

 

[birdmannn101]

Too bad it didn't come with the front hub brake, that bike is worth $1305.. All the other Hiawatha's are worth $225, $675, $405 and $450 in #2 shape....Dan

 

[truckd]

What I'd like to know is why? you got it sitting out in the elements like that

 

[birdmannn101]

That is what the bike looked like when my friend found it. The owner was going to bury it in the front yard as a lawn ornament and so this friend of mine asked him if he could trade the Hiawatha for an old girls bike and he said, "Yes."

So, this friend of mine I met said that since he paid nothing for the Hiawatha that I cold have it for free.... Dan

 

[porch lizard]

birdmann... you've got a very usable looking Hiawatha. I'm in the process of motorizing one of mine, and some things I noticed was that I can't use the original crank and chain (skip tooth chain) because the rusted out rims are too far gone, and the rear sprocket doesn't fit on the new wheels. I may eventually figure out how to use them, but for now I'm using wheels and crank from a Huffy Cranbrook. I also found out the front fork headset bearings are larger in diameter than standard bikes of today. Only one of my Hiawatha's has a usable set of bearings. The frame itself has a huge area to put such a small 66 cc engine in it and it would really be easy to put a much bigger engine in there. I think it will still make a very nice looking MaB however. I've put all the parts together to see what needed to be done, and now it's all disassembled for the painting process. I know the bike itself is worth some money, but in a recent trip to a bike shop where none of the bikes there were below $700.00 the Hiawatha looks like a cheap frame to use. Plus, its something not everyone can just buy and build. It's vintage, hard to find, and its recycling something in a unique way. Your Hiawatha looks far better than what I started out with, and whether you motorize or not you've got a great bike.

 

[birdmannn101]

It looks like a fine bike for motorizing, but after "Googling" it may be worth more as a bike. Does anyone know what year it is and/or the value? I haven't found one like it yet so I need input before going further.

Hey Porch Lizard,

look at http://oldroads.com/master_query.asp and if you have the 1931 to 1940 with the front hub brake it might be worth $1305 in #2 condition.

 

[birdmannn101]

Porch Lizard,

You can find out the year of your bike now that you have the serial number by going to RatRods

 

[birdmannn101]

Fitting a tank inside the 2 halves might be possible, but I don't think it would hold the amount of gas I'd like to have. I want a tank with at least 1 gal. and a 1 1/2 to 2 gal tank would be even better, since I'd like to take longer trips with fewer fill-ups. However, it might be possible to make the center part of the tank, and use the fake tank halves as the outside ends. I'll have to give it some thought. The fake tank ends would have to be reduced in size, as they won't pass through the frame.

Porch Lizard, I was going to turn my Hiawatha into an 1900 Indian look alike but trying to find a gas tank like that is really expensive on Ebay. The last one that had already been chopped went for over $300. So, I have decided to put a Honda S-90 gas tank on the straight bar which should cover the second bar. Picked my bike up today from a friend. He showed me one of the hundreds of bikes that he had which was a J.C. Higgins. It had a bird on the front fender standing up, 2 beam headlights, horn and a batter pack strapped to the cross bar to light the old bike up.....Dan

 

[birdmannn101]

I noticed was that I can't use the original crank and chain (skip tooth chain) because the rusted out rims are too far gone, and the rear sprocket doesn't fit on the new wheels. I may eventually figure out how to use them, but for now I'm using wheels and crank from a Huffy Cranbrook. I also found out the front fork headset bearings are larger in diameter than standard bikes of today. Only one of my Hiawatha's has a usable set of bearings. The frame itself has a huge area to put such a small 66 cc engine in it and it would really be easy to put a much bigger engine in there. I think it will still make a very nice looking MaB however. I've put all the parts together to see what needed to be done, and now it's all disassembled for the painting process. I know the bike itself is worth some money, but in a recent trip to a bike shop where none of the bikes there were below $700.00 the Hiawatha looks like a cheap frame to use. Plus, its something not everyone can just buy and build. It's vintage, hard to find, and its recycling something in a unique way. Your Hiawatha looks far better than what I started out with, and whether you motorize or not you've got a great bike.

I followed your tread on fuel tank and before I give up the idea of an Indian look-alike I'm going to see how much Pat would charge to make me a tank. I have 2 good wheels but the rear is not a skip tooth so I can't help you there. I am going to go to Custom Motor Bicycles to buy these heavy duty wheels for $96. I might be picking up the same wheels for 1/2 price with some rust on them which might end up needing to be painted.

Thanks for the heads up on those bearings.

I am trying to keep this one legal so I am going with the Grubee 2011 SkyHawk 4G T-Belt Drive 49cc Motor which gives me a pull start and a centrifugal clutch. If I didn't care I would buy that cheap Lifelan engine from Amazon.com and have 4 gears etc. after I mounted a battery somewhere. But my luck, I would get caught....Dan

 

[porch lizard]

birdmann ... I've got two Hiawatha bikes, a 1951 St. Croix and a 1950's Seneca. They are almost identical, but because I picked them out of a local junkyard, I needed parts from both in order to make one good one. I'd love to put a 4cycle Honda motorcycle type engine on it, but I too want to keep it as a MaB for now. I have my been riding motorcycles since the 70's, and everytime I get on my Cranbrook MaB I get the feeling of wanting to shift gears when I reach full throttle. After a few miles, that feeling goes away and its becoming easier to enjoy the 20 mph club. It would be nice to run across that $1300 Hiawatha, and I'll keep looking for one. I paid a $26.00 fee to get mine identified by National Bicycle Historical Archives Association (NBHAA) and Leon Dixon did the report. They are worth between $100.00 to $200.00 in the condition they're in, so I don't feel bad making the ones I have into a MaB. Properly complete and restored, the price goes up to $600.00 or more, but it would take almost that much to get the missing parts I would need if I could find them. As they are now, they would be convincing to all but the real collector type people out there. With an engine, they would be a conversation starter and might give someone the interest to make their own.

 

[porch lizard]

birdmann ... those wheels you're looking at are some really nice heavy duty ones. 80gauge and 105 gauge must be close to motorcycle strength. They shouldn't give you any problems, and will probably outlast several bike frames. I chose to go with the Huffy Cranbrook wheels because they have 12 gauge spokes, powder coated rims,that seem to be heavy duty, and the whole bike cost $80.00. (Lots of extra parts.) The Motorcycle gas tank idea was a consideration for me too, and I like the idea of having plenty of gas to use between fill-ups. To me there's nothing worse than having to fill up more than once a week. Where I live you have to travel 16 to 20 miles to find a decent gas station, or 8 miles to find basic high priced gas. I've built an in-frame tank for my Hiawatha that is 1.3 gals, and I'll probably build a second behind the seat tank for even more capacity.

 

[truckd]

If you guys are looking for a functional custom made tank for your bikes try checking Dan Taylar, if you go to the thread "another taylar btr build " you can get his web address and check out spookytooth cycles then click onto their special and close outs
they also have some heavy duty rims on close out 12 gauge 36 spoke with painted aluminum rim for $25.oo ea.