is there an internally geared hub out there with the input either on the left or both sides?

[LittleTimmy52]

I want to add a transmission to my motorized bicycle, I hear a jackshaft is a mess and pain and I hear too that internally geared hubs work better if you were to use a shift kit, but a better idea would be then to have an internally geared hub but on the other side to skip the jackshaft all together, but does this exist? additionally I wish to preserve pedal function so if it can work on both sides or have say a disk brake mount so I can bolt a gear to it or something for the pedals for starting, is this a thing? if it is not, can I "reverse" the hub? like make it work but flipped around?

 

[Tony01]

A jackshaft is only used to attain the proper gear ratio and have proper chain spacing with very wide engines. If you have a regular CG type engine it should already have an internal reduction and the output sprocket the right distance from center to line up with a bicycle wheel sprocket.

A hub transmission is far more difficult, will add complexity, and more opportunities for failure, including the simple fact that most hubs are not designed for motor use and have close ratios for pedaling.

I’d recommend building your engine for equal power through the rpm range. There are many things you can do.. you can run a longer intake manifold to maximize torque, port work, compression, and selecting an exhaust tuned pipe then tuning exhaust header length. But you can pretty much just bolt stuff on that’s available for sale. Single speed, select a reasonable top speed for the amount of motor work and build with that. Keep it simple, stupid!

 

[LittleTimmy52]

Yes I do agree that keeping it simple is better, but I want to throw some type of transmission on it so I can have taller gears for speed and lower gears for lower speeds with the added bonus of not having that stupid spoke mounted sprocket these kits come with. if there is some kind of left handed internal gear hub this solves everything hi gear, low gear, better sprocket mount, all in one go. also your other suggestions I have been wanting to do,m but later on in the future.

 

[Sidewinder Jerry]

There is a 3-speed internal gear hub that perfectly meets your needs: the Sturmey Archer S3X. This model operates as a jackshaft transmission and offers three gear ratios:

1) ⅝:1
2) ¾:1
3) 1:1

If you pair it with a 36t sprocket in the rear, it effectively gives you the equivalent of having a 48t and a 58t as options.

The Sturmey Archer S3X is the strongest internal gear hub available, built without any pawls, which enhances its durability. While it ceased production about a decade ago, with a bit of effort, you can still find them in the market. Just keep in mind that they typically range from $300 to $400.

 

[Tony01]

Yes I do agree that keeping it simple is better, but I want to throw some type of [complexity] on it

with the added bonus of not having that stupid spoke mounted sprocket

Get the bike running well as a simplistic single speed before you go into custom work. Read my threads I have built a couple of 2-speed auto shifters using dual jackshafts. It is not an easy endeavor that you just weld up and go ride. I figured all the speeds and feeds with an XL spreadsheet to see if it was feasible at all.

A hub transmission has nothing to do with the rear sprocket setup. Look on your other thread where the guys are recommending a hub sprocket adapter.

 

[Tony01]

Hub shifters will work to get you to the corner store, but their internal pawls are not made for high speed or hard shifts. A couple rough shifts and that thing will be toast. Those types of builds are for people comfortable with rebuilding internal hubs.

Also you’ll see as Jerry posted the ratios are very close. I’d use only 1st and 3rd with an engine, with its 160% jump, which I have tried and run for a little while as a quad chain dual JS 2-speed automatic. While it works great a slightly lower jump is better like 150% to 155%.

 

[Sidewinder Jerry]

Engine power is the key factor in determining ratio spacing. Higher-priced engines can deliver up to 5 horsepower and rev as high as 10,000 rpm. Therefore, unless you're hauling extremely heavy loads, tackling very steep hills, or have a significantly large rider, you don’t need multiple gears with that level of horsepower.

I’ve found that the SA S3X ratios, despite being close, are exceptional because they lack pawls—essentially functioning like a compact 3-speed gearbox. The jumps between 58t, 48t, and 36t sprockets are substantial. If you’re running at 8000 rpm on 26" wheels, here’s what your speeds would look like:

1) 24 mph
2) 29 mph
3) 39 mph

This setup allows you to predominantly use 2nd and 3rd gear while still having reliable granny gear for when you need it.

With this configuration, you could even enhance your bike by adding mag wheels, enabling a disc brake setup similar to the one on this bike. It's a solid approach for anyone looking to optimize their ride.

 

[Sidewinder Jerry]

With my bike, the Sidewinder, I have a 1.6 hp engine, I'm a large person, and I live in the mountains. I use a triple chainring shift kit with a 7-speed 34-13 freewheel. Immediately, one will think of 21 gears. That's way too many. With a 3x7 drive system, you don't have 21 different ratios you have 21 different shifting combinations. Many of the ratios are redundant.

The Sidewinder has the widest reduction range in forum history 66.79\1~16.25\1. I also invited a color-coded one-hand shifting system. Here's how my system works:

Red Gears
Steep hill climbing
1(1-3)

Yellow Gears
Around town general use
2(3-5)

Green Gears
Open road use
3(5-7)

Notice a chainring is only shifted when in either sprocket (3) or (5). This keeps the bicycle chain in a fairly straight line. Starting Gears are 1(1) for starts going uphill, and all other starts 2(3) is used.

So when doing builds turn the complicated into the simple.

 

[LittleTimmy52]

well thanks for the information, on the ratios, I guess this means jack shaft it is if I were to go with adding gears. Any recommendations for rear hubs that aren't hard to get and expensive like the Sturmey Archer S3X Jerry mentioned? if an igh similar isn't there, any recommendations for a strong enough but still cheap derailleur? also the shift kit, any recommendations and ones to avoid?

 

[Sidewinder Jerry]

well thanks for the information, on the ratios, I guess this means jack shaft it is if I were to go with adding gears. Any recommendations for rear hubs that aren't hard to get and expensive like the Sturmey Archer S3X Jerry mentioned? if an igh similar isn't there, any recommendations for a strong enough but still cheap derailleur? also the shift kit, any recommendations and ones to avoid?

I personally use a Sram X4 rear derailleur and a Sram X3 shifter. I like it because it's all metal no plastic parts.

Shi(+)mano

This will be a thread about Shimano bicycle components.

motorbicycling.com

 

[LittleTimmy52]

I personally use a Sram X4 rear derailleur and a Sram X3 shifter.

Shi(+)mano

This will be a thread about Shimano bicycle components.

motorbicycling.com

the fancy expensive s3x you said is around 300-400 dollars? Now I could be wrong but i think i found it on ebay for $13 is this the wrong one? is it lies and probably fake? im unsure with this conflicting information.

also thanks for the recomendation on the shifter and deraileur, they dont seem too expensive, i might go for them.

 

[Sidewinder Jerry]

the fancy expensive s3x you said is around 300-400 dollars? Now I could be wrong but i think i found it on ebay for $13 is this the wrong one? is it lies and probably fake? im unsure with this conflicting information.

also thanks for the recomendation on the shifter and deraileur, they dont seem too expensive, i might go for them.
View attachment 116277

If it's too good to be true; then it's too good to be true. I've seen 2 stroke kits on eBay for $25. The kit never comes and you have to go through up to a 90 day process to get your money back.

 

[LittleTimmy52]

If it's too good to be true; then it's too good to be true. I've seen 2 stroke kits on eBay for $25. The kit never comes and you have to go through up to a 90 day process to get your money back.

well that statement is 100 percent fact, Thanks. one question you gave me the shifter and deraileur i should look for, what hub should I use? i only got my one gear coaster brake hub maybe one with disk brakes would be nice if itll fit.

 

[Sidewinder Jerry]

well that statement is 100 percent fact, Thanks. one question you gave me the shifter and deraileur i should look for, what hub should I use? i only got my one gear coaster brake hub maybe one with disk brakes would be nice if itll fit.

If you're going to install a multi-speed cog system get a cassette hub instead of a freewheel hub. The cassette was designed as an upgrade to the freewheel. This was because freewheel axles are prone to bending. As for installing disc brakes you can weld nuts onto your seat/chain stays to bolt the caliber onto. You'll also need a bolt on rear derailleur hanger. You may need to spread your dropouts further apart to fit the wheel in.

 

[Sidewinder Jerry]

Unless you have a low HP engine (<2hp) and/or you're a large person (225+ lbs) and/or have steep grades (20%+) you don't need gears. If you're a large person using an engine with less than 2 hp and have steep hills like me you definitely need gears.

On my engine the max hp is at 7000 rpm, the max torque is 5000 rpm, centrifugal clutch engagement is 4000 rpm, idle is 3000 rpm.

If I'm in a gear doing max hp rpm (7000) at full throttle, shifting to a higher gear won't make me go any faster. It'll just cause a drop in the rpm and make me go slower because I'm no longer at max hp rpm.

Though my top speed won't be any faster my average speed goes up because I can select a gear that allows me to run max hp rpm at full throttle. So if at FT I'm going over 7000 rpm I shift to a higher gear. If at FT I'm dropping below 6000 rpm I shift to a lower gear. This way I always stay between 6000-7000 rpm at full throttle, thus making my average speed go up.

Yes, I have 9 gears I use but they're divided into 3 categories. The 3 Red Gears are for when I'm in a area where's there's a lot of steep hills. My small town doesn't have many steep hills; therefore, I use the 3 Yellow Gears. When I'm on long stretches of road that don't have steep hills, I use the 3 Green Gears. So depending upon the predominant terrain I'm essentially only using 3 gears.

Unless there's a need for gears or you simply want the challenge of building a shifter; start simple and build a single drive ratio bike.

 

[Gordy]

Yes, apologies @LittleTimmy52, back to the discussion.

I have a project I'm putting together as a shifter bike. I managed to get my hands on a Sick Bike Parts shift kit. From what I have found, the bike berry kit is of much less quality, but can be made to be of good quality by replacing the bearings and 1 way bearing with a better quality one. SKF bearings is what I would use for the bearings, and @Pablo might be able to tell you where to find the freewheel for it if that is the route you want to go. Sidewinder Jerry uses a frl t freewheel like what is found in those shift kits and his bike is very reliable.

 

[Tony01]

BTW you've been reported several times for Hijacking this thread to insult people and start arguments

Why? Why are you on this thread anyway? Tony Derangement Syndrome? Have to turn every thread I post on into a problem? With the help of Jerry and Gordy ?

The Master Builder FNTPuck said it-

Dude asks a question, I answer it, and the typical motoredbikes.com gatekeepers come out of the woodwork together to try to discredit/insult/comment about it. The first half a page of comments were jokes about me making it up and assuming it wasnt even true, and you wonder why it’s the same 5 people posting here every day.

You guys scare away anyone new or thinking outside the box with that BS. You guys don't need a forum, an iphone group chat would suffice.

In this case the motored gatekeepers are wrench, Jerry, and Gordy…

Have any of your ever built a mid mounted Internal Gear Hub or multi-speed Jackshaft transmission bike?

NO

yep, there’s those who build and those who hit the report button…

 

[wrench]

I'm sure all members from MotoredBikes.com will ignore post #27 and not reply

Waiting for the Administration to read Reports and take the action necessary

 

[Tony01]

View attachment 116317

I'm sure all members from MotoredBikes.com will ignore post #27 and not reply

Waiting for the Administration to read Reports and take the action necessary

But you just did in #28.

Dude asks a question, I answer it, and the typical motoredbikes.com gatekeepers come out of the woodwork together to try to discredit/insult/comment about it.

So no input on internal gear hub transmissions then?

 

[Sidewinder Jerry]

For the record, I've successfully advised numerous individuals on constructing internally geared hub jackshaft transmissions, and many of them have built impressive setups. I've also helped a friend create a 5-speed shifter using a Sturmey Archer 5-speed IGH. The bike featured a rear rack mount similar to mine, but instead of the power going to the crank, it was directed to the right side of the SA intake. We mounted a sprocket on the left side of the hub that connected to a sprocket on the left side of the rear wheel. If I recall correctly, the reduction range was between 48:1 to 18.75:1.

18.75 GB>20t>[24t|24t] IGH>32T.

As a token of appreciation for my help, my friend gifted me a Honda GXH 50 engine, which I look forward to using one day. Unfortunately, my go-to guy, David Staton, is closing his business after over 40 years, which limits my options for working with straight-shaft engines.

While I’ve never owned a two-stroke engine bike, I've played a significant role in helping several locals build them. Back when Sick Bike Parts was available, I even assisted a local in building an electric bike. I used to help people all the time, but since moving from Oak Ridge, the only project I've built here is the Sidewinder. In my small town, I proudly own the only self-built motorized bike, although I’m noticing a growing number of manufactured electrics on the scene.