hello from ontario

Discussion in 'Introduce Yourself' started by jeff96, Mar 29, 2010.

  1. jeff96

    jeff96 New Member

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    Hi all,

    I've been browsing the posts here to figure out how to start a project on an old mountainbike. I'm looking to occasionally commute to work 20 to 30 km one way and to do short trips into town 2.5 km away. I'd like to spend less than 500

    Being in Ontario, the gas motor kits appear to be illegal, unless I can manage to register one as a home build moped. I'm not against flying under the wire legally like some members do, but I'd hate to invest in a bike, then not be able to ride it. They definitely seem to have the performance I'm looking for though.

    I've been looking at the electric bikes because they don't require licence and registration, but the range of these things sounds like it falls way short of what I need.

    I've rebuilt a few bikes, do the brakes and oil changes on my car, so I'm not a mechanical klutz, but I'm far from having the tools and expertise that I see many members have put into their bikes.

    So, anyone facing similiar challenges?

    Jeff
     
  2. Dave31

    Dave31 Moderator
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    Welcome Jeff to the forum, glad you joined us.

    We have lots of members from your neck of the woods, I am sure they can give you better input then me.
     
  3. professor

    professor New Member

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    I don't think your budget is high enough for electric with your range in mind. I am in NY and gas bikes are non legal. How about buying a used moped? I have thought about doing that- buying a cheap clunker, and placing the identification number on a motoredbike (chunk of the frame welded in to the bike frame with the # on it) then scrapping the rest. Custom moped?
     
  4. peter carswell

    peter carswell New Member

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    were abouts are you in ontario jeff i am in hamilton myself and so far i have rode my gas bike all over town without once being pulled over from the cops but i do hear in toronto itself they are less leniant as far as comparing gas and electric i have a schwinn ebike myself with two 24 volt batteries and i can do approx 50 kilometres until i need a recharge the gas bike is far more fun and quicker but the ebike is far more reliable and never breaks down plus the ride is smoother so myself i prefer the gas bike for small trips around town and my ebike for longer distances
     
  5. Rockenstein

    Rockenstein New Member

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    +1 on what prof said...

    You can find a decent used moped on Kijiji for less than a 1000 most days. Tomos mopeds are well supported in Canada too.

    Your looking at a 1000 to do a decent DIY electric power setup and 1500-2000 for a factory built with reasonable power and range. I've been down that road some and talked to a few E power guys who went the cheap cheap route, they bought and built twice which of course is no fun.

    Food for thought...If you want to be 100% legal a DIY E bike in Ontario isn't what your after either, a DIY E bike is close but still not 100% legit. In most parts of Canada if what you want to ride is powered by anything other than muscles it has to have the federal government's stamp of approval on it to be 100% legit.

    Cheers :)
     
  6. bygeorge328@gmail.com

    [email protected] New Member

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    hey jeff,welcome to the forum.i just recently joined myself. theres a lot of knowledge to be learned here.have fun and let us know what you come up with.i'm going to start off with a pusher using the HF2.5 4 cycle engine.
     
  7. fasteddy

    fasteddy Well-Known Member

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    Jeff96, the bad news is that gas powered bikes in Canada are illegal period. The Insurance Corporation of British Columbia and Ford Motors who at the time were making e-bikes, were kind enough to help the government when they were rewriting the motor bike/moped laws. We got the shaft.

    The rules say that the bicycles don't have a strong enough frame and are suited only for electric motors up to 500W and can only go 20kph.

    I am building a 1952 Monark Super DeLuxe bike with a sidecar. The hub motor and lithium polymer battery are about $1800 all told. I bought it here in Vancouver from e-bikes.ca. Not inexpensive but top of the line and I don't have to deal with someone in China that can ignore me. They have been super good to deal with and I did go for the best so they are worth an e-mail. Like I said they stand behind thier products.

    Rockenstein is right on the money. If you want gas, get a moped. Less hassle.

    Steve.
     
  8. fasteddy

    fasteddy Well-Known Member

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    I meant to add that when I bought my kit from e-bikes.ca it came with official stickers in both official languages as the law required.

    Steve.
     
  9. jeff96

    jeff96 New Member

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    Thanks for the supportive replies everyone. I'm in Beaverton about 1 hr north of Newmarket.

    Re: budget. Yes I've been coming to the conclusion that $500 isn't going to do the job for an ebike with the specs I have in mind. That was an arbitrary number kinda based on what I think I could do a good job on a gas bike. I'm sure I could build something for $500, but I'd probably spend years tinkering with it, pissing off my wife and concluding that I'll have to spend more money.

    This is going to sound like heresy, but the problem is cars are too efficient. After I've spent the money on licence and insurance on the toyota echo, (which I can't avoid due to the fact that I deal with Canadian winter and I have to commute to different job locations, some over 80 km away on a schedule that doesn't accomodate public transit) the further cost of gas and maintenance isn't that much.
    Obviously money saving isn't the only motive for bicycle commuting, but it sure helps.

    Granted a DIY ebike isn't officially legal, (neither would the motor capacity and top speed that I would require be legal either), but I don't think anyone would bother to enforce the letter of the law for years to come. A gas bicycle may fly under the radar for years, then again, maybe it wouldn't. All it would take is for one kid on a pocket bike to rip up the streets in your neighborhood for the complaints to come in. Then, the police would have a hard time justifying not ticketing motorized bicycles in the same neighborhood.

    I like the moped idea. I think mopeds look dorky and are way overpriced. But if I could get one with a seized motor, I could cut it up and make it into something pretty cool.

    edit: Ok I take that back about mopeds looking dorky: http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-cars-veh...005-Tomos-Streetmate-moped-W0QQAdIdZ195266715
     
    #9 jeff96, Mar 30, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2010
  10. BorooM12

    BorooM12 New Member

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    I live in ny too and ive been stoped they just made sure i had a licence and then let me go.flg.
     
  11. BorooM12

    BorooM12 New Member

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    Your best bet would be to just go to target buy a bike for 70 bucks then buy a 2 stroke motor kit for about 130 there you go only got to spend 200 and got a beast of a moped
     
  12. jeff96

    jeff96 New Member

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    yeah but, technically, I'd be riding a motorcycle without insurance, licence or registration. Minimum fines for that would buy me a couple of small motorcycles
     
  13. Rockenstein

    Rockenstein New Member

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    Technically you'd be riding a bicycle. With respect to motor vehicles the federal regulations, and Ontario's HTA, make no provisions for something to be magically morphed into something else with bolt on accessories. At least 2 Canadian members on this forum found this out after spending much time and money trying to make their projects "legal".

    Pocket bikes are imported into Canada as restricted use motorcycles and all must wear the federal label and serial number that identifies them as such. The regulations for restricted use motorcycles clearly stipulate that they are for closed course\closed circuit use only. No similar regulations or stipulations exist for bicycles, accessories added or not.
     
    #13 Rockenstein, Mar 30, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2010
  14. jeff96

    jeff96 New Member

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    Hmmm I know this issue has been kicked around more than once, but I'm still not convinced a motorbicycle falls in a grey area here. The description does describe the motorized bikes on this site to a "T", however the point that bothers me is "vehicle must be insured and registered and have a valid licence plate;" New and Alternative Vehicles

    Anyhow, I may have found my solution in the form of an old non-working moped: red honda moped for parts or collectible!! - Barrie Scooters, Pocket Bikes For Sale - Kijiji Barrie

    Not sure what part to keep on the new project other than the licence plate.
     
  15. fasteddy

    fasteddy Well-Known Member

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    A gas motor on a bicycle is illegle in Canada. Transport Canada says so.
    Want to argue with them and you can enjoy that ride.
    If the local police don't bother you, great. When they do, not so great.

    My understanding is in BC the maximum fine is $5,000 fine, 2 years in jail, lose your license, insurance sky rockets and they take your motorized bicycle. Your on an uninsured, unlicenced , unregistered motor vehicle.
    Mine's electric.

    Want to swap a vin# off a moped on to your MB? That will buy you some very serious federal jail time. Seem tampering with the vin# really ticks them off.

    Steve
     
  16. jeff96

    jeff96 New Member

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    I'm gathering from other posters that when the law is enforced that it's not with the maximum penalty, however, you are right, anyone using these bikes on the road are taking their chances that they are going to be made the example.

    I wasn't thinking of just applying the vin# to the bike, but to use the moped as the base of a new bike. ie modified. Maybe not legit, but probably enough grey area there that I wouldn't be facing maximum penalties either.

    Here's the final straw though. Insurance on a Yamaha YZR 125cc = $285 / year. The 50cc moped = $291. I'm thinking it's time to reevaluate my budget for an ebike. $291 a year could buy alot of batteries. A gas bike might make a cool ice racer this winter, but it's not going to save me any money on my commute.
     
  17. Rockenstein

    Rockenstein New Member

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    Fasteddy there is not one law Canada wide that specifically says putting a gas engine, or electric motor for that matter, on a typical store bought pedal bicycle is an offence. Why would you post such a statement?
     
  18. fasteddy

    fasteddy Well-Known Member

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    Jeff this is BC. The cops are likely to give you the max just because they can. That said, if the fine is $500 bucks and 3 points, it puts an awful hole in a fellas wallet with the added cost of the insurance costs with the 3 points.

    Someone mentioned putting a moped vin# on thier bike and registering it as a moped.

    Don't know if you modify a moped it is legit or not. Sure could be fun though. What would you do to it? Any ideas?

    I was born and raised in Ontario and did some ice racing in the early 60's with a mini. My hat was always off to the crazed motor cycle ice racers. Not everyone would sit out in the open and turn themselves into a human ice cube.

    Steve.
     
  19. fasteddy

    fasteddy Well-Known Member

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    Rockenstein, I based that statement on the fact that the Canada Transport site says so, the Insurance Corporation of British Columbia who helped draw up the rules said so, and the fact that the web sight for the Province of Ontario says so.

    Who you got?

    Steve.
     
  20. Rockenstein

    Rockenstein New Member

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    So far the ones in Ontario that have had the roughest time are those that have had their drivers licence suspended and I suspect the driving while suspended charges stuck because the licence suspensions were for impaired driving. Impaired driving is a criminal offence and the criminal code of Canada affords a much broader scope to the term "motor vehicle" so when your suspended for impaired driving pretty much anything propelled by anything other than muscles is off limits...powered bicycles, mobility scooters and Segways included. Driving suspensions issued in Ontario for provincial offences, HTA offences or FRO problems would not prohibit a person from using a powered bicycle, mobility scooter etc etc.
     
    #20 Rockenstein, Mar 31, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010

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