Has anyone considered weighting the wheels?

bluegoatwoods

bluegoatwoods

Active Member
I've pondered it over the years. I guess the thing that's stopped me from experimenting with it would be my lack of an idea for something that would stay put and not be a safety hazard.

But imagine putting, say, 10 extra pounds on there. Spread evenly around the rim, of course. The gyroscope effect would be magnified. This would seem to make our bikes more stable.

The bikes wheels would act more like flywheels. Maybe this would be a disadvantage when braking. But maybe it wouldn't be bad enough to ruin the idea.

And this could be an advantage when starting up a push-start, like a happy time. Pedaling up to 10 mph would be a bit more difficult, it's true. But then once the engine started, the engine would have a bit less load those first few revolutions. The 'flywheel' wheels would have some more momentum than we're used to to contribute.

But maybe I've got an idea brewing here. Imagine a chain. Something about as thick as a dog chain. Maybe a little less. One could 'slalom' it through the spokes. Out at the rim, near the spoke heads. It could be run through 2, 3, 4 times, maybe. Whatever gave it enough weight to have an effect. Fasten the ends with a bolt and it's not likely to go anywhere, such as breaking loose and flinging itself all over the place. (That'd be kinda bad, wouldn't it?)

Instead, centrifugal force would simply force it outward so that it stayed nice and taut. But it wouldn't feel a bunch of stress. For that matter, some individual link would be a handy place to hang a small weight if the wheel isn't perfectly balanced.

I might have to experiment with this a bit.
 
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Just don't overdue the gyroscopic effect. You'd turn the handlebars and the bike will continue to go in a straight line.

Flywheel propulsion has been experimented with for many years. What typically happens is that by the time it has a beneficial effect it has also impacted steering ability.
You have to find a way to alter the direction of the spinning mass to utilize the force to not only propel the vehicle, but to steer it.

Good luck with your experiments. Let us know if you try it. Interesting concept that probably hasn't been looked at by anyone here.

Tom
 
2door said:
Just don't overdue the gyroscopic effect. You'd turn the handlebars and the bike will continue to go in a straight line.

Tom
Click to expand...

A good point.

If overdone, then the effect on steering might be undesirable. But if not overdone, then it might have a good effect. Might help make our front ends more stable.

Thinking about it, 10 lbs per wheel might be a lot. But 4 or 5 per wheel might be good.

I might give it a try.
 
It would also be hard to accelerate. What you could do to kinda get a feel for the effect is get some really heavy tubes and tires and try to fill will water etc. I'd do that test on rear only if I were you....you won't like it I think.
 
You can feel the difference by just riding a fat tire bike.
They are harder to get going, harder to stop, and no benefit in between.

Weight is your enemy.
 
I tend to have heavy wheels with old steel rims, 10 or 11 gauge spokes, drum brakes, (sometimes over large from light motorcycles) and fatty tires. I don't pedal, but haven't noticed any steering problems. And when I had an electric pancake motor front wheel (quite heavy) I didn't notice any trouble steering. Also ran a couple of bikebugs with motors over the front wheels. Didn't notice any trouble steering from them either.

I'm guessing that unless you overdo it you wouldn't notice much difference in handling as a motorbike, but as a pedal bike your probably would.
SB
 
Probably hard or impossible to do on a motorized bike, but a guy won a big science fair a few years ago by recycking a very old idea. He put a fly wheel in the middle of the frame pf the bike. It was hooked up to the drive of the bike and was on a freewheel bearing with a clutch so that it was powered when the bike was pedaled and stored so to speak energy. It continued to spin when the bike stopped. The user could engage it when at a stop or going uphill to use the flywheels stored emergy to take off or get a boost to go uphill. Since the flywheel was mounted inside the frame parallel with (in tandem as well) the direction of movement of the bike it provided lateral stabilization at the loss of agility. It was also added weight. Not sire it was really worth it.
 
you would pretty much be limited to flat ground/roads. even a slight incline would drain all your momentum away.

even if you could use the mass, wouldn't your engine still reach red-line rpm's at the same speed. with or without the weights?
 
By brother in law's motorcycle was hit by a deer while he was going 100kph. The deer was on a full run, hitting head first into the fuel tank. My BIL described the bike as hardly quivering in spite of receiving heavy damage (stowed in gas tank, broken footpegs and cast aluminum tail-light mounts). The effect of gyroscopic stability. It hit him under the hip and only injured his leg slightly, luckily.

Weight, speed, and distance from center are all factors. Weight is a direct relationship, whereas speed and diameter of the weight are geometrically proportional to stability force. You can feel the effect with heavy or large diameter wheels. Small or light wheels feel squirrelly compared to large heavy wheels. However when you are pedaling up a hill, every ounce gone is an ounce from heaven.

Steve
 
As a matter of fact, I have tried it. There's a chain in my front wheel right now.

It's pretty small and thin. I doubt if the weight is more than two pounds. I bolted through the links in many places around the wheel in order that the chain stay put.

Yet I still have this bad, bad picture in my mind of a piece of that chain working loose, wrapping itself around a fork and putting me into an immediate face-plant.

It's actually not likely since I fastened it down pretty well. Yet I'm not sure it's really doing me any good anyway. So I'll probably take it off soon. When I do that I'll also make sure to see if I can feel any difference in that wheel.

Mogollonmonster once recommended automotive wheel balancing weights for this idea. I might try that one day.
 
Or you could just eat more pizza and ice cream. Then you'd have more momentum when you pop the clutch to start your HT engine with no adverse gyroscopic effects. brnot
 
I can't imagine there being any benefit to adding weight to the wheels for a 'flywheel' effect.
I see a big problem when it comes time to stop the bike though!

I have to agree with the others... weight is the enemy. ;)
 
In my case there was no noticeable effect on braking. But my brakes are good and I hadn't added much weight.

All in all, my evaluation is that this chain didn't affect my bike much for good or for bad.

One reason for experimenting with it was the hope that it would have a good effect on stability in snow and ice. And that's still possible. But I didn't add enough weight.

More weight could obviously have an effect on acceleration and braking. But under snowy and icy conditions that's a penalty I'm willing to pay.

So I might work with it again next winter. See if more weight gets me where I want to go.
 
There is a reason light weight rims are on performance vehicles. Rotational mass kills acceleration and braking. Sure you'll have a lower center of mass and possibly more stable, but you can get the same effect with smaller rims without the slower acceleration and worsened braking.
 
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