MotoMagz
Well-Known Member
Just do what you can do! Took me 15 years to get my present ride. The great thing about it is I had fun all the way.
Got a few new parts for my indian powerplus project
- Thread starter RocketJ
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- board track indian powerplus
RocketJ
Well-Known Member
Exactly. I'm not aiming for an exact replica of a powerplus, although I would kill for one. I've come a long way in the past 2 years since I simply slapped a garbage chinagirl on a bike and called it a day. This is becoming a passion and it'll only get better from here.
RocketJ
Well-Known Member
Got pretty far with the frame these past few months. I would say I'm 90% of the way to a rolling chassis. My only 2 issues are that the flux core I used was a bit low quality so I'll need to go over some of the welds and I'm still stick on how to set up the rear swing arms. Any ideas would be great.
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indian22
Well-Known Member
Rocket I like where you're at on the frame & understand that it's in progress. You're probably already aware of all this.
The originals used a large steel grommet plate to attach the twin leaf springs to the saddle tube. This plate was welded to the saddle tube and is very robust construction. In the "cradle leaf" suspension design, used by Indian, the leaf packs serve as both suspension elements and as structural replacements for the simple seat stays, utilized in a hard tail frame design. Coupled to the original grommet connection the leaf packs are much stronger than the traditional stays.
The chain stays have to pivot at the "bottom bracket" connection to the forward frame. Take your pick of how to do this, tear apart an old full suspension mountain bike frame to see what's involved.
Once the two components mentioned above are fabricated and installed. The spring eyes are coupled to the drop plates/lower stays. Adjustability of this final connection isn't important except in the setup stage, but strength is. I'd use high quality, heavy wall steel tubes for these connections, bolted solid both top and bottom...though bronze bushings can be used at the leaf spring connection and many do including myself. Use high grade fasteners at each connection point.
If you understand the leaf design slip function then the setup is ready for pre-load adjustment to determine the exact length of the tubes connecting the chain stays to the spring pack and for that you can use all thread and adjusters, but for strength I'd cut proper tubes after pre-load length for these is determined.
If you're planning on using that plate on the chain stays for jack shaft mount I'd suggest spring tensioners for chains involved in your design.
Cool build.
Rick C.
The originals used a large steel grommet plate to attach the twin leaf springs to the saddle tube. This plate was welded to the saddle tube and is very robust construction. In the "cradle leaf" suspension design, used by Indian, the leaf packs serve as both suspension elements and as structural replacements for the simple seat stays, utilized in a hard tail frame design. Coupled to the original grommet connection the leaf packs are much stronger than the traditional stays.
The chain stays have to pivot at the "bottom bracket" connection to the forward frame. Take your pick of how to do this, tear apart an old full suspension mountain bike frame to see what's involved.
Once the two components mentioned above are fabricated and installed. The spring eyes are coupled to the drop plates/lower stays. Adjustability of this final connection isn't important except in the setup stage, but strength is. I'd use high quality, heavy wall steel tubes for these connections, bolted solid both top and bottom...though bronze bushings can be used at the leaf spring connection and many do including myself. Use high grade fasteners at each connection point.
If you understand the leaf design slip function then the setup is ready for pre-load adjustment to determine the exact length of the tubes connecting the chain stays to the spring pack and for that you can use all thread and adjusters, but for strength I'd cut proper tubes after pre-load length for these is determined.
If you're planning on using that plate on the chain stays for jack shaft mount I'd suggest spring tensioners for chains involved in your design.
Cool build.
Rick C.
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RocketJ
Well-Known Member
Hey Indian, thanks for the advice. I welded a proper pivot into the chain stays already. It's hidden under that metal plate near the pedal shaft. I'm just not sure how to connect the eye of the leaf pack to the end of the chain stay. I'm thinking of bolting a small piece of metal plate to the end, sort of like an extension and using heavy duty bolts/fasteners and the heavy duty tube you mentioned to go to the leaf pack. What do you think? My concern is that there isn't enough "meat" on the end of the chain stays to allow attachment of the rod set up. I'm clueless there.
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RocketJ
Well-Known Member
Here you go. I couldn't remove the bracket holding the rod at the moment. Sorry.
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indian22
Well-Known Member
Rocket I don't see that working out. I would recommend fabricating larger axle drop plates made from 3/16" steel plate.
This may sound a daunting task, depending on your fab skills. There is an alternative that will work and that is bolting then welding the new plate over the current one. Axle alignment still determined by the original plate. Done with care it will look great. All welds on the inside of the frame. The bolts are temporary to keep the axle drops aligned while welding. Pre drill attachment points before welding.
The leaf eye connection is pretty simple I'd use an oil lite bronze bushing, with a flange, on each side of each leaf eye four flanged bushings total, with appropriate size axle bolt connected to a rod eye or Heim connector. Photo of my Indian style leaf fork using the described setup on a typical trailer leaf eye. with Heim's and oil lite bushings. In your use Rocket only the outside rod is pertinent, the opposite side of each leaf is just bolt up, but there is the second flange bushing under the nut. I had to shorten one bushing to get both the flanges to fit flush. Been riding this setup for a few years with no problems. The springs are stiff enough that unless you are quite heavy pre-load shouldn't involve more than a slight compression on assembly to keep things from rattling.
Rick C.
This may sound a daunting task, depending on your fab skills. There is an alternative that will work and that is bolting then welding the new plate over the current one. Axle alignment still determined by the original plate. Done with care it will look great. All welds on the inside of the frame. The bolts are temporary to keep the axle drops aligned while welding. Pre drill attachment points before welding.
The leaf eye connection is pretty simple I'd use an oil lite bronze bushing, with a flange, on each side of each leaf eye four flanged bushings total, with appropriate size axle bolt connected to a rod eye or Heim connector. Photo of my Indian style leaf fork using the described setup on a typical trailer leaf eye. with Heim's and oil lite bushings. In your use Rocket only the outside rod is pertinent, the opposite side of each leaf is just bolt up, but there is the second flange bushing under the nut. I had to shorten one bushing to get both the flanges to fit flush. Been riding this setup for a few years with no problems. The springs are stiff enough that unless you are quite heavy pre-load shouldn't involve more than a slight compression on assembly to keep things from rattling.
Rick C.
RocketJ
Well-Known Member
sounds good. I can pretty easily make a new plate that bolts over the existing wheel stays. The rod connections look easy enough to make. I'll give it a try. That fork looks great by the way. Do you know the best way to drill through a leaf pack as well? I realized late in my design that I'll need a hole through each pack to bolt down to the holding bracket.
indian22
Well-Known Member
Cobalt drill bits and cutting oil I use 3/16" as a pilot and graduate up to 7/16" and used grade 8 fastener 3/8" for bolt up. Don't forget a pack slip/alignment roller to allow leaf movement while keeping alignment. Check the leaf U-bolt on my fork that bolts up to the fork plate, just like the original power plus you need this on the grommet connection to the fork tube. Your single round tube connection for the springs is quite frail.
Rick C.
Rick C.
RocketJ
Well-Known Member
Thanks. I'll give that a try as well and I'll make sure to incorporate a grommet plate and proper u bolt for the spring.
indian22
Well-Known Member
There is also the way Indian attached the leaf pack with out drilling the springs, certainly easier as well. they just drilled four holes though two steel plates and sandwiched the leaf's in between. The bottom plate was a part of the grommet, either tubes or plates, and the top plate was detachable so the springs could be installed or later worked on or replaced. Simple mild steel is easier to hand drill, but cutting fluid and slow cutting speeds will extend the service life of the drill bit.
Rick C.
Rick C.
RocketJ
Well-Known Member
From what I can see it looks like Indian had a single bolt going through their leaf packs and then a piece of steel sandwiching the pack as well. I'll probably end up either doing that or finding a good grommet and proper u bolt.
RocketJ
Well-Known Member
as seen here
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indian22
Well-Known Member
Photo: On this Power+ the double tube is used and the plate above the leaf pack is welded to the tubes. The bottom plate is removable with 4 bolts. The leaf pack is sandwiched in between the two plates and the four bolts keep the pack perfectly aligned. The dual tube connection is strong, however some Indians featured a thick steel grommet in place of the two tubes, either method worked. This is a really nice original restoration.
RocketJ
Well-Known Member
works for me. I'll see if I can make something like that in the coming weeks.