Electric Start Hidden Wire Build On a Cranbrook.

Discussion in '2 Stroke Bicycle Engines & Kits' started by ZipTie, Mar 17, 2017.

  1. ZipTie

    ZipTie New Member

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    Ok, I bought this Electric start Bullet Train engine a year ago out of shear curiosity and it laid around collecting dust for many reasons. A person does not need electric start but thought it would be just be cool and be great if the fairer sex want to ride one of these motorized bikes. But... I hated to build a bike with that god awful big wiring box that holds the CDI, regulator, and solenoid plus fuse, tons of big bulky wire clips. I am now challenged.

    So tonight I started the build on a sharp looking candy apple red Cranbrook with flat black rims and fenders that cost me 74.00 and free shipping... not sure how that works as the bike is steel with the heavy duty 12 gauge spokes and is a very solid bike. I am adding front and rear pull brakes and will bob and shorten the flat black fenders. and freewheel the coaster hub. In the last picture is all the components hung on my temp template that will be replaced with flat black plastic panels that match the contours of the bars. No or bolts will show on my final tank panels,

    Here are the problems:
    1 the engine doesn't fit perfect yet at first blush but will make it work
    2 my idea about placing the electrical components directly on the frame would work but how will I hide the wires. here is my idea I will run with and hope it wont fail.
    I always strive for clean builds and am determined to pull it off.
    here is what I am planning.
    A) take the components out of the box and reassemble the junk in the top bar area and use black expanded plastic to to make kinda a fake tank to hold the
    Bazillion ugly wires clips and all the bulky electrical components .
    So I made a cardboard template to see if the stuff all fits. It does barely, so I am going to go with this plan and use a rear gas tank to not interfere with the clean lines. That it for tonight.
     

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    #1 ZipTie, Mar 17, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  2. curtisfox

    curtisfox Active Member

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    Looks good from here, Lol. That will be nice when done. ................Curt
     
  3. Kartooo

    Kartooo Member

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    must be getting kinda crowded in your shop !!
    jeech, i believed i had it bad, after 4 now i'm taking a break...
    that fake tank should hide all that spaghetti well.
    i'm sure when your done it will be a museum quality piece like your other builds.
     
  4. ZipTie

    ZipTie New Member

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    Thanks Curtis and Kartooo, its a lot of spaghetti for sure, and its a very heavy motor add the battery and its going to be a Sherman tank. I bet it will be close to 75 pounds or more. Ill weigh it when it's done for kicks. I will have to thin out
    Some bikes, but its a hobby and you know how men justify their hobbies.
    I won't be working on this till I get a wide crank in and my plastic sheet.here.
    Zip
     
  5. scratchbuilder

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    If you haven't already , check out cannonball 2's bullet train build. His addition to the cylinder head is reaaal nice!!
     
  6. quik225

    quik225 New Member

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  7. Kartooo

    Kartooo Member

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    brings back memories...
    that redish/orange finned thing, selinium rectifier.
    over 40yrs ago the one on my CB160 failed.
    my battery was so weak that if i blew my horn the engine would die.
    i was lucky enough to stop in frt of a home with an owner of a battery charger.
    he charged me up for and hr or so i could make it home.
     
  8. Agreen

    Agreen New Member

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    I would love one of these, but I would definitely put a faux cylinder head on it. Something to make it look less like it has the zika virus.

    The build looks good. I wouldn't be afraid of drilling a hole in the frame, then using a rubber grommet to pass wires inside the frame. Motorcycle builders do this. I'm not talking a huge hole, just big enough for the wires. Cut the connectors off, run wires, crimp connectors back on.

    It'll be interesting to see what you end up with (as usual).

    Good looking build!
     
  9. ZipTie

    ZipTie New Member

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    Not sure how I missed that thread scratchbuilder, but I just read the entire thread. Cannonball can think circles around the common man for sure. His post always amaze me.
    The cannonball head addition idea is cool and yep Agreen the Zika Virus comment made me spit my Pepsi all over, thanks man. Even though i have no idea what a that microbe looks like, but I agree this engine looks like its missing a head.
    I just purchase some black plastic to cut my "fank" faux tank. I don't even know if i can do it so it looks and works good but I will try. I can always get more plastic if I mess up like I usually do on a first attempt.
    Thanks Curtis and Kartooo for the encouragement.
    Ill post some photos after I rough cut the "Fank" panels
    zip
     
  10. ZipTie

    ZipTie New Member

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    Ok, I just finished the Plastic panels Right and Left. These will be the ones that hold all the electronics and connectors for the CDI - Rectifier - Starter Solenoid - plus the Bazillion wires. Cutting this stuff was challenging. I used a matt black poly-plastic. I cut with aviator shears and my hands are now sore. I will probably edge the panels with black door edge guard along the top for a finished look. So far so good. see picts. The last picture is my placement template.
    That's it for now or Ill mess up. I have to noodle on how I will attach the panels Later today.
    zip
     

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  11. cannonball2

    cannonball2 New Member

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    Looks like your going to get it all hidden. Where is the battery going? Im betting a 3 or 4ah SLA will start the engine. They are much smaller. The 5ah lipo spins it crazy easy. Also it starts by the third stoke so doesnt need much of a battery. The 7ah battery that came with it is the same as my Kawi KLX250 uses!

    You will love this engine if ts like mine(hope so!) I havent really done anything to my build since my last post but ride the heck out of it. I dont know how many miles(odometer broke) but a bunch. Always cranks right up, runs well and to this point has never needed anything.

    I think I posted that most of the electrics have their origin from the pit bike( Honda Cub clone engine). Easy and cheap to find if you ever need em. My lighting coils have faithfully been running the lights with out a battery in the circuit. Will tap the lipo in to the circuit soon.

    There is a bit of work to do one of these builds(even stock) but I believe its well worth it in every respect.
     
  12. ZipTie

    ZipTie New Member

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    Hello Cannonball, I am very encouraged by your and others love of the engine. Yep its a slow head scratcher build for me as I am trying to get I right. I was just about to test fit the huge stock battery for kicks. Then I have to insulate the starter solenoid with a rubber boot hence it touches the frame and starts my bike on fire? I also bought a in-line fuse for a starter battery. Yea I need to figure something out, not sure I have the skill to mess with the LIPo pack. I'm putting a rack mount flat as a pancake tank from DAX on rear so that eliminates one more spot for the battery. Hmmmm I do wonder if it will end up with a Lipo on the seat tube by the BB enclosed in a black tube? I was also wondering how a Lipo can fit into the charge system? Hope you ( our genius mad scientist) can figure out a safe easy way to do it so I can copy you/LOL
    I have to figure out a way to even mount the engine as it fits bad in the frame.
    (crooked) I may have to do the flat plate method for the front mount. Zeda Must of used the same exact china girl specs?
     
  13. ZipTie

    ZipTie New Member

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    I just finished mounting the electrics on one side of the FANK panel and then made smaller overlays that will be painted with plastidip or coated with vinyl. These will cover the screws heads in the big panels. I will attach these with strong as heck two sided banner tape.
    I also made 3 polished stainless brackets to hold the 2 large panels together and attach to the bike. Now I can try to install and wire up the engine.

    PS. I made the plastic panels out of a Sterilite brand. matt black plastic tub. The slight curve of the plastic and the perfect 1/8" thickness and textured matt surface was exactly what I wanted, plus this material is very indestructible.
     

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  14. ZipTie

    ZipTie New Member

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    Not sure this is the final look but its more finished looking now with the dark red edging and one possible final look arrow decal on the plastic bolt cover inserts that are attached with Velcro. I feel confident I can attach the panels now and not have to redo.
     

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  15. cannonball2

    cannonball2 New Member

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    Wow, really nice job and look on hiding the "mess"!

    As I mentioned you might want to look at smaller SLA batteries. A 3 or 4ah is much smaller and will integrate right into the system.

    The lipo is the smallest. If a 3.5 will start the engine its smaller still. I have a 3.3 in one of my quadcopters will give it a try. The 5ah has been starting over 6 weeks(several times a week) with out a charge. All I have to do is run a wire from the solenoid hot side to the Lipo to charge it. Will look into doing it. This will bring the battery into the lighting system to stabilize the lights at idle as well.

    Will give it a shot when I get a chance.

    If your engine runs excessively rich check out the carb slide mod I did. Helped greatly. Just dropped the needle a notch since it has warmed up. Was 39 over the weekend(low) and 91 yesterday!!
     
  16. ZipTie

    ZipTie New Member

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    Thanks cannonball, the mess is gone. The cranny frame or any frame with the double bars is good for using this plastic Fank system I guess. Here is a 3.2 ah and it's much smaller as you said this s the smallest I could find/ Length 5.23 in. Weight 3.13 lbs. Width 2.64 in. Amp-Hour 3.2ah Height 2.6 in. Be great if you get time to test lipos wired in and a smaller one test
    Gee, I might even be able to squeeze behind the Fank?
    39-91 is a big temp swing,

    Zip-
     
    #16 ZipTie, Mar 22, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  17. curtisfox

    curtisfox Active Member

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    KOOOOOOL. Coming along nice, will be a good bump for anyone else doing a build. Like the colors.............Curt
     
  18. cannonball2

    cannonball2 New Member

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    Ok I did a crank test. Just about anything in a 3/4 cell lipo will start it no problem. I have been using a 4 cell but tried the following test with 3 cells to see what would happen.

    I used a relatively new 3ah(thought it was a 3.3 earlier). Was at rest voltage or 11.25v. Spun it fast with no problem. Lastly I tried an ancient 2.2. I flew this in many R/C planes before I moved to the coast. This is my fifth year here and I havent flown since I got here! Dont think I have charged this pack either. Anyway was also at rest voltage. It cranked it as well as the newer 3ah.

    So a very small AH wise lipo will start the BT no problem. The reason Im using a 4 cell is the total charged voltage is above the V regs output which is somewhere in the mid 14v range. the 4 cell is fully charged@16.8v. In theory this means the lipo wont ever fully charge so having a lipo issue by over charging shouldnt ever happen.

    In fact the lipo should be very happy as its never being charged above rest voltage which is right at 15v. Should last just about forever. Just for the purpose of size see the pics of my hand compared to the 2.2. The 4 cell I use to start my bike is in the small tool roll behind the seat.
     

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  19. ZipTie

    ZipTie New Member

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    Big thanks Cannonball for the crank tests, amazing results too. Dang that is small battery to crank over the pretty big engine, very cool. ! Ill start researching lipos tomorrow as I know 0 about these. I fear batteries that look just like dynamite/lol is a lithium ion bat the same as lipo batttery?

    I didn't get to work on the bike tonight as i started to get distracted on the cheap ( that is relative) 36v ebike hub build on a front suspension hardtail frame. I got as far as I could on that till parts come in.
    I just locktighted and screwed in tight the engine studs in the ole Zeda BT is all, whoopee lazy me.

    Cannonball...Did you just use two of the front engine studs through the skyhawk frame pedestal? Ya think its strong enough on this heavy engine? I would think it would be, but would be tiny bit nervous...
     
  20. cannonball2

    cannonball2 New Member

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    Lipos have a bit of controversy but I have had no issues since I started with them around 2006. The lithium ion is a bit different as its cell voltage is 3.6 vs 3.7 for Lithium polymer. Most of the recent issues all involve the Li-ion. With understanding and safe handling Lipos are a great power source in a small package. Cost are now very reasonable too.

    I actually used the bottom two mounting holes. That made the rear mount sit squarely on the tube. Thats pretty important. Its a very nice fit for the GT style frame

    I think using half of the double mount is plenty strong. Especially with the back firmly seated. The mounting spread is the same as the common CG(a smart move) so it should mount any where a CG does and be able to use the common available adjustable front mounts on half the studs.

    They claim 5hp for this engine. I dont know about that but it has plenty of torque. Will pull a lower numeric ratio than a stock CG. The 48 shipped with the kits is much too low(high numerically) I feel. The engine is a pretty free rever as is with real good low/mid range. Its very nicely banded. It would really benefit from a carb with an adjustable idle mixture. But I got the NT running fairly well. Need to try the 15mm Bing clone
     

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