Does your city have actual gas motor on bicycle laws?

[decoherence]

A common example is marijuana for medical purpose in California - a great example of state law trumping federal law.

actually you have it backwards. there are many upon many dea busts all the time in CA.
they just don't get the support from the state or some local police. i follow those laws.
a slightly better example would be how CO put it into there state constitution. then federal law has to take a back seat.
CA doesn't have in in their constitution.

 

[DuctTapedGoat]

Lol, I know it's not the best example, just the closest one I could find. Definite thanks for giving us a better example of how it would work to trump federal law.

 

[RandyWhite]

I'm sorry, but aren't they still busting people for weed down in CA.

Fed law beats state, and I assume state beats city ordinance.

Try reading;
The Supremacy Clause and Federal Preemption
Supremacy Clause: Which rules, State or Federal Statutes?

And of course wikipedia
Supremacy Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are my sources, show me one that says city ordinance beats state or federal. I honestly want you to prove me wrong. If you do, when I move to boise in the next 6-12 months, I can move into Nampa.

 

[RandyWhite]

I also find this discussion to be funny as well. You state that there is no law regarding motorized bikes, yet in another thread argue with a guy about the exact same train of thought.

http://motorbicycling.com/f17/idaho-moped-law-27283-3.html

Posts 21-22. You state and I quote "They don't fall under a category that doesn't exist." Yet you are now saying they are a motorized bicycle which is not defined in the Idaho state law.

 

[DuctTapedGoat]

And through the years, opinions evolve.

My opinion has evolved to point of "Motorized bicycles are not mopeds, as they don't have VINs or MCOs - nor do they NEED one unless required by law. If there is not a law, it's not against ANY law, thus making it entirely legal." If you'd like to quote something, quote something recent from me.

Motorized bicycles aren't mopeds - no matter how much you'd like them to be. But - be happy, as it works even MORE in our favor than trying to piggyback on the laws written for mopeds 40 some odd years ago.

 

[RandyWhite]

Any update on city ordinance trumping state or fed law yet?

 

[TxBikeRider]

Any update on city ordinance trumping state or fed law yet?

The problem is that people do not take the time to read the laws. If you notice, fed law usually applies to "limited access" roads and local laws apply to surface streets. Same with state laws. If a city funds the road, city law applies, state highways-state law.......etc.

 

[biknut]

Check how your state defines a motor vehicle. Most states define a motor vehicle as a self propelled vehicle.

Most China Girl style MBs would not be able to pass that test because they don't have hp to drive off from a dead stop under their own power. That would mean they're not self propelled.

Texas has no specific laws regarding gas powered MBs. For a while some municipalities considered MBs unregistered mopeds, until the self propelled argument came up. After that, as far as I can tell they've backed off all over the state, and we ride free for now.

 

[RandyWhite]

Here is the Idaho "motor vehicle" statue. The problem is, there is no Idaho definition of self propelled.

One of the many definition of self propelled is "Moving or able to move without external propulsion or agency:" (Merriam-Webster definition). Can a motorized bike fall under that definition? I would say it's possible.

I would also point out that in the moped definition, it specifically says it is not titled. That lead me to believe that the last half of the definition really excluded mopeds, but ITD disagrees.

(g) Motor vehicle. Every vehicle which is self-propelled, and for the purpose of titling and registration meets federal motor vehicle safety standards as defined in section 49-107, Idaho Code. Motor vehicle does not include vehicles moved solely by human power, electric personal assistive mobility devices and motorized wheelchairs or other such vehicles that are specifically exempt from titling or registration requirements under title 49, Idaho Code.

 

[biknut]

Here is the Idaho "motor vehicle" statue. The problem is, there is no Idaho definition of self propelled.

One of the many definition of self propelled is "Moving or able to move without external propulsion or agency:" (Merriam-Webster definition). Can a motorized bike fall under that definition? I would say it's possible.

I would also point out that in the moped definition, it specifically says it is not titled. That lead me to believe that the last half of the definition really excluded mopeds, but ITD disagrees.

(g) Motor vehicle. Every vehicle which is self-propelled, and for the purpose of titling and registration meets federal motor vehicle safety standards as defined in section 49-107, Idaho Code. Motor vehicle does not include vehicles moved solely by human power, electric personal assistive mobility devices and motorized wheelchairs or other such vehicles that are specifically exempt from titling or registration requirements under title 49, Idaho Code.

I think you've got it made, because of the fact that you think it's possible, I think it's possible, and there's a good chance someone on the jury might think the same thing too. In a trial only one person on the jury has to agree with us, and the state looses.

We have the exact same situation here in Texas. The prevailing thought here by tptb is, better not take a chance, we might loose and set precedent for the whole state. It's like a Mexican stand off. I don't know what kind of stand off's you have in Idaho lol.

 

[RandyWhite]

Any update on the city beating state or fed Goat? I'm curious because I have been considering an electric but it's not feasable here in Idaho if it still falls under the moped definition.

moped section "(b) Two (2) wheels or three (3) wheels with no pedals, which is powered solely by electrical energy, has an automatic transmission, a motor which produces less than two (2) gross brake horsepower, is capable of propelling the device at a maximum speed of not more than thirty (30) miles per hour on level ground and as originally manufactured, meets federal motor vehicle safety standards for motor-driven cycles."

The only info I have to go on is the ITD chart for
"Identification Chart for Motorized Vehicles with Two or Three Wheel" located here.

What resources can you use here in Idaho to get legal questions answered, preferably without paying?

 

[DuctTapedGoat]

Electric bicycles are different from electric scooters, which is what you're talking about.

As far as Fed VS State, it has to do with who had the more strict law to begin with - it's more about who gets the fine money than trumping the higher up. I've had it explained to me before, but most of it went over my head, I got a buddy who knows all about this stuff - so I'll have to ask him next time I see him.

 

[RandyWhite]

No, I'm talking about an electric bicycle. Where you got a scooter from I have no idea.

Have you ever actually read the itd chart I posted Goat. Feel free, the link is in my previous post.

The point of my previous question was, if a gas bicycle falls under the moped statute, would an electric bicycle be a moped as well. If it did, then the sections I highlighted in red would apply.

 

[biknut]

In most states an electric bicycle would be considered a motor vehicle, because of the fact that they are self propelled, as opposed to a typical China Girl style MB which in most cases isn't

That's one of the reasons why there are federal laws in place to help give ebikes an advantage over gas powered.

 

[Dave31]

Does your city have actual gas motor on bicycle laws?

Yes, my city does have motor assisted bicycle laws. The city of Tucson uses the Arizona State Law Title 28 for motor assisted bicycles.

http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/files/bicycle/moto_bikes.pdf

 

["the prussian" Shop Dogs]

Arent we all on the same team?
Arent we all looking for answers to these various questions?
Arent we all trying to secure the rights of everyone to ride legal?
Trust me the powers that be don't want us riding mb's at all!
Perhaps working tword common ground is the better use of time.
And (imo) the idea of "hijacking" a thread is invalid , this is an open forum run by highly motavated mods who are the ones who make the call if something is out of line.
We are all guests here and should respect each others opnions regardless .

 

[Pappy]

Indiana Moped Scooter Laws

http://motorbicycling.com/f17/indiana-moped-scooter-laws-7798.html