Predator303
New Member
Does anybody here have experience with those engines? I am planning to get one soon and have a couple questions about clutch and more.
Thank you
Thank you
Couple questions about the KTM50 9HP engine
- Thread starter Predator303
- Start date
Goat Herder
Gutter Rider
I know that it will have the 3 shoe stone clutch like my Morini S6S and S6C. Which has been a awesome clutch for me. Way more hardy than the old style two shoe. It will rev, go and sound the same. The hub of the 3 stone model clutch on the KTM model will need a puller to get the clutch off as it sits on a tapered shaft on to the crank, not splines like my Morini. ...Other wise the clutches are exactly the same.
While I have not owned or tried a KTM model I see no reason not to believe It should be much the same high horse power performing engine.
While I have not owned or tried a KTM model I see no reason not to believe It should be much the same high horse power performing engine.
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Predator303
New Member
Well one of my questions or worries about this type of engine is that they have auto clutch. I love to have control over the clutch, I am no fan of any automatic because I like to actually drive the car or whatever it might be.
So I heard its possible to adjust the clutch. I would like to be able to launch from standing without having to rev up to 3000-4000rpm.
- Is it possible to adjust the clutch to get it launched already at lower rpm and
- Is it possible to use it as manual clutch? Are there any kits to convert it or something like that?
So I heard its possible to adjust the clutch. I would like to be able to launch from standing without having to rev up to 3000-4000rpm.
- Is it possible to adjust the clutch to get it launched already at lower rpm and
- Is it possible to use it as manual clutch? Are there any kits to convert it or something like that?
Goat Herder
Gutter Rider
There is no manual clutch................
You can make the clutch engage ''truly lock up'' so soon that you will absolutely have to peddle the bike to make it move. All the way down the street too. The clutch with this engine design was intended to get the engine into its power band sooner. In a sense engaging the clutch this soon detunes the engine and makes a very weak run over all. Effectively making it run like a H.T. motor at best...
So the launch will not really be a launch with a absolute lock up engagement done so early IMO. But if a fine tuned progression is achieved on it it will do absolutely what you are asking !! The motor will do 11,000 rpms or so all day long. It will not just fall apart like a H.T. engine always does. I have tried valiantly to break my Morini and Been getting the idea it is not possible nearing 10,000 miles on it now and running even stronger than new.
So in a nut shell trying to run the engine every where slow is possible. Fine tuned progression is key. I modded my clutch for a 260 pound adult's motor bike while it truly needs ''periodic maintenance'', it does not wear out on me and does my bidding.
I went to some extent of study to get my clutch the way I want it. It run's just like I have built in preprogrammed gears. A stealthy '''very quiet''' 10, 20 MPH cruise or a louder off the line launch. This was totally up to me not the factory . They just send you a engine and believe me you are on your own... I went through a learning curve to perfectly, flawlessly, finesse the progression the way mine is.. Mine works great for me and does not wear out ether. Can easily get from my own experience mebbe 5000 miles being brutal on mines. Much more for driving like I have some sense . 8000....lately thinking I can get considerably more!!
This whole clutch ditty is up to the end user to set where they want it.. If tuning is in your skill set this engine is for you? Other wise buy a ready made moped mebbe?
From my experience once about ever two months with I do mean every day riding... grocery stores /work/friends house's etc putting on some miles I have to clean out my washer stack to keep it at my version of ''flawless''. Takes me 20 minutes now taking my time with no fretting or any trouble at all.
Tuning the progression rate of this clutch makes this motor the beast it is IMHO. Somebody with the wrong skill set mentality may not get along with it until they figure things out? When it is set up right it is like owning a wicked sports car. I absolutely love mine !!
Last I have no idea about the KTM clone that exists? Don't know how true craftsmanship from Italy/China compares lol.
Yes I have a buddy that cannot stand automatic clutches and shares your point of view exactly . He has been my toughest critic. If some of the folks could have been a fly on the wall for those in my early learning days conversations
He loves the way mine works now. No more critique
Was there any help when I was figuring it out? No lol.
The motor will work with this clutch !!
I really really want to try the Hole Shot after market clutch ,but it is going to be a while before I wear out what I got and more importantly actually have the money.
You can make the clutch engage ''truly lock up'' so soon that you will absolutely have to peddle the bike to make it move. All the way down the street too. The clutch with this engine design was intended to get the engine into its power band sooner. In a sense engaging the clutch this soon detunes the engine and makes a very weak run over all. Effectively making it run like a H.T. motor at best...
So the launch will not really be a launch with a absolute lock up engagement done so early IMO. But if a fine tuned progression is achieved on it it will do absolutely what you are asking !! The motor will do 11,000 rpms or so all day long. It will not just fall apart like a H.T. engine always does. I have tried valiantly to break my Morini and Been getting the idea it is not possible nearing 10,000 miles on it now and running even stronger than new.
So in a nut shell trying to run the engine every where slow is possible. Fine tuned progression is key. I modded my clutch for a 260 pound adult's motor bike while it truly needs ''periodic maintenance'', it does not wear out on me and does my bidding.
I went to some extent of study to get my clutch the way I want it. It run's just like I have built in preprogrammed gears. A stealthy '''very quiet''' 10, 20 MPH cruise or a louder off the line launch. This was totally up to me not the factory . They just send you a engine and believe me you are on your own... I went through a learning curve to perfectly, flawlessly, finesse the progression the way mine is.. Mine works great for me and does not wear out ether. Can easily get from my own experience mebbe 5000 miles being brutal on mines. Much more for driving like I have some sense . 8000....lately thinking I can get considerably more!!
This whole clutch ditty is up to the end user to set where they want it.. If tuning is in your skill set this engine is for you? Other wise buy a ready made moped mebbe?
From my experience once about ever two months with I do mean every day riding... grocery stores /work/friends house's etc putting on some miles I have to clean out my washer stack to keep it at my version of ''flawless''. Takes me 20 minutes now taking my time with no fretting or any trouble at all.
Tuning the progression rate of this clutch makes this motor the beast it is IMHO. Somebody with the wrong skill set mentality may not get along with it until they figure things out? When it is set up right it is like owning a wicked sports car. I absolutely love mine !!
Last I have no idea about the KTM clone that exists? Don't know how true craftsmanship from Italy/China compares lol.
Yes I have a buddy that cannot stand automatic clutches and shares your point of view exactly . He has been my toughest critic. If some of the folks could have been a fly on the wall for those in my early learning days conversations
He loves the way mine works now. No more critique
Was there any help when I was figuring it out? No lol.The motor will work with this clutch !!
I really really want to try the Hole Shot after market clutch ,but it is going to be a while before I wear out what I got and more importantly actually have the money.
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GH, how important is the measurement of the washer stack? and what happens if its too short or long? i'm trying to retro fit a 3 shoe [KTM tappered] and after trying the aftermarket clutch it wont grab. i am looking at the dax too if i can't work out the s5gs problem. sorry to but in 303 dennis
Goat Herder
Gutter Rider
From a racers prospective it is important. From a Cruise and get around I would say not so bad. Not as important. As ultimo perfection goes it is important and not that hard to maintain at all once you get your prospective on the mechanics of it and where your at . These washers are like leggos put them the way you want them what ever works.
My favorite one is the same as Itchybird's reported stack with my weep holes. It will not work for me without that mod. As I did try things methodically.
My last big test and run through on my all the configs I tried was what I posted on my bike in my thread. Last one I did has been spot on for me.. Everything is always in the last place you look
Will be running it that way from now on....On all my machines. I tried things until it worked for me..
If you have a short washer stack then two things can happen . Trying not to make this sound complicated lol.
A shorter spring is stiffer in a sense. It will move less than a longer one. A longer spring set will have a free er progression rate.
A stack that is too short can come on sooner if no shims are present.
A stack that is long with no shims can come on fairly soon too.
The trick I found was to shim my shoes out close and modify my stack. I had to put my weep holes in then it was heaven. I have shown no wear yet and have road a ton.
What I did was set the clutch as tight as I could with a short stack. Shimmed my stones out. So my progression stay's tight for me. If that makes sense lol. I got a clutch predominately designed for a smaller bike to work for this ''large'' adult. Work it does
Just gonna have to get after it and fix it
last I got three deformed washers at the bottom of my stacks now hint hint..
My favorite one is the same as Itchybird's reported stack with my weep holes. It will not work for me without that mod. As I did try things methodically.
My last big test and run through on my all the configs I tried was what I posted on my bike in my thread. Last one I did has been spot on for me.. Everything is always in the last place you look
Will be running it that way from now on....On all my machines. I tried things until it worked for me.. If you have a short washer stack then two things can happen . Trying not to make this sound complicated lol.
A shorter spring is stiffer in a sense. It will move less than a longer one. A longer spring set will have a free er progression rate.
A stack that is too short can come on sooner if no shims are present.
A stack that is long with no shims can come on fairly soon too.
The trick I found was to shim my shoes out close and modify my stack. I had to put my weep holes in then it was heaven. I have shown no wear yet and have road a ton.
What I did was set the clutch as tight as I could with a short stack. Shimmed my stones out. So my progression stay's tight for me. If that makes sense lol. I got a clutch predominately designed for a smaller bike to work for this ''large'' adult. Work it does
Just gonna have to get after it and fix it
last I got three deformed washers at the bottom of my stacks now hint hint..