Cordless Drill Starts

[5-7HEAVEN]

Well, the PowerStart arrived.
http://www.killerrc.com/product/power-starter/

The part that attaches to the engine flywheel doesn't fit pocket bike engines. Its bolt holes are 32mm apart, while the flywheel holes are spaced 40mm (The PullStart was made for smaller Chun Yang(CY) engines).

I tried to fit the PullStart onto my spare Tanaka 47R engine. The plastic cover is a shell for the pull start of smaller CY engines. It'll bolt onto the Tanaka if I drill out the cover's 4 mounting screws.

To use the PullStart on the Tanaka engine, I have two options. One is to weld a 14mm socket onto the TroyBuilt Bit-Starter:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Troy-Bilt-JumpStart-Electric-Engine-Starter/3415794

Then a cordless drill would spin the flywheel's nut. The guide bushing is smaller in diameter than the 14mm socket. It'd have to be unglued and a larger one installed.
Another alternative is to drill and bolt the Power Start directly onto the Tanaka's starter pawl:
http://www.ereplacementparts.com/pawlstarter-assembly-p-512388.html
This might not be a good option. The pawl is very thin cast aluminum. In time, it looks like it'd fracture and fail.
Two bolts with flat heads would be needed to clear the engine block's reinforcing bosses.

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

I bought two of these $2.41 adaptors:

http://www.troybiltpartsonline.com/pages/oemparts#/s/TRB//753-06104

One end is threaded. It can be bolted or welded onto a simple plate, which then threads onto the flywheel's two 5mm bolt holes.
The other end has a 5-sided hole. The Troy-Bilt Bit-Starter fits into that and spins the engine.
I also ordered a cordless drill.


While on vacation, I bought this from Wal-Mart:

https://www.amazon.com/Troy-Bilt-Co...499166606&sr=8-2&keywords=troy-bilt+jumpstart

I returned it a few days later, thinking it wouldn't be powerful enough to spin my engines or clear my pullstart housings. Just for kicks, I'll buy/order one from a local Wal-Mart and see if it'll start my engines. If it doesn't, I'll return it.

 

[Dan]

Oh, oh,,, Mr Koter....

Just woke and blind, using a cell. But think your on to some thing really cool and great work around!

Not sure I'm following but a threaded coupler between motor (elec) and ICE engine? That turns engine over, then untheads when she lights off?

I completely missed it, eh? Dang my slow and eyes. snicker.

But that's a great, simple cheap thought.

Wut, just woke?

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

Hi Dan,
Troy-Bilt, as well as Craftsman and other brands, offer cordless drill starts on their selection of weedwhackers, trimmers, edgers, etc.

However, it's only threaded on one end. This threaded part screws into the Troy-Bilt flywheel or pulley part of the Troy-Bilt weedwhacker, trimmer, edger,etc.

The other end of this $2.41 coupler is a 5-sided (female) socket. The $9.97 Troy-Bilt Bit Starter is a drill attachment (male) which is inserted into this coupler and spun by any 3/8" drill.

So the cheapest, dependable way to start most engines is to weld or bolt this $2.41 coupler to a flat piece of steel. The flat piece is then bolted onto the engine's flywheel.

Remove the guts from your pull start. Drill a 5/8" access hole in the pullstart cover, insert the drill attachment into the coupler and SPIN! that puppy!

The Troy-Bilt Bit Starter has a sprag clutch (aka one-way bearing). When the engine rpm overrides the drill's 1500rpm, the sprag clutch will prevent drill-starting components from failing or loosening up.

 

[Dan]

Fantastic work around, 5 7! Inexpensive, thinking long lasting and works. The trifecta! LoL

 

[kingofgreens]

I'd suggest if you're dead set on using a drill, you can buy a grade 8 (or higher) bolt/nut for the flywheel and use a cheaper socket on the drill to avoid damaging the motor.

 

[kingofgreens]

I've entertained the idea of using one of my drills to power a bike like a friction drive. I could just put a wheel with an axle in the chuck then tension it against a tire. Different size wheel in the drill will determine gearing. I'm sure it won't have a lot of range but with some tinkering I'm sure it'd be fine for short trips or just putting around the neighborhood.

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

I'd suggest if you're dead set on using a drill, you can buy a grade 8 (or higher) bolt/nut for the flywheel and use a cheaper socket on the drill to avoid damaging the motor.

Grade 8 hardware are American SAE. Almost all mb engines use metric hardware.

To each his own.

 

[kingofgreens]

Grade 8 hardware are American SAE. Almost all mb engines use metric hardware.

To each his own.

https://www.belmetric.com/index.php...ORoCUzzw_wcB&zenid=2m1tq1dr4najgm5m9csp3qi0g3


Metric hardware is redialy avaliable in many different grades........

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

I removed my engines' pull starts. Then I drilled mounting holes in 4" diameter stainless steel (SS) plates to create delete plates.

Removing my pull start housing narrows my engines 1.1" or 28mm.





After drilling the 3/4" access holes, I cleaned the plates up with 5/8"X3/4"X3/4" bronze bushings, similar(but cheaper) to these:

https://www.amazon.com/Bunting-Bearings-ECOF101212-Powdered-Thickness/dp/B01G8XBK8S/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1498345188&sr=8-7&keywords=5/8+flanged++bushing




I'm happy my 18-volt drill fits in my easily-carried "man purse". It looks almost like a long flashlight.

 

[Dan]

Any pics, 5-7?
Sounds kewl!

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

I'll post pics soon, when I'm ready to spin those puppies!

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

There are several ways to skin a cat.

I believe a simple way is to weld this $2.41 adaptor directly onto the head of the pocket bike engine's flywheel bolt:

http://www.troybiltpartsonline.com/pages/oemparts#/s/TRB//753-06104

Remove M6 flywheel bolt. Weld the $2.41 Troy Bilt adaptor onto the flywheel bolt's head.

HOWEVER, this welded-on adaptor is bigger than the 10mm head on the flywheel's bolt! Ya can't use a 10mm deep socket to torque down the flywheel bolt!

SOLUTION? Slip this into the welded adaptor:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Troy-Bilt-JumpStart-Electric-Engine-Starter/3415794

Using an 8mm socket and torque wrench, reinstall the modified flywheel bolt.

Now THAT is the simplest, CHEAPEST way to install an effective cordless drill start on engines using a bolt to attach your engine's flywheel!

Let's see.....$2.41 for the adaptor plus shipping, $9.97 for the drill attachment, plus welding costs(or DIY).

Do not be tempted to use a cordless drill and a socket to spin-start an engine. When I was attempting to remove the flywheel bolt, its head slipped a few times out of the socket. I finally removed the bolt with a "tighter" 1/4" drive socket.

I can only imagine how quickly my M6 flywheel bolt head would be damaged if I tried to spin-start with a "cheap" socket, as someone had earlier suggested.

Besides damaging the flywheel nut or bolt head, the faster-spinning engine will loosen the slower-spinning flywheel nut or bolt.

This simple, inexpensive idea came to me in last night's dream...
AFTER I ordered a turbo fitting adaptor to re-purpose for my drill start.

From its descriptive specs, this fitting adaptor SHOULD work, after removing the 1/8" NPT and drilling for an M8 bolt for the $2.41 adaptor to bolt on to.

My Tanaka engine has a flywheel nut attaching its pull start, not a flywheel bolt.
This re-purposed turbo fitting from ebay SHOULD work for my Japanese engine.

The welded flywheel bolt SHOULD work for my pocket bike Cag engines.

This is all theoretical. I'll know for sure in a few days, or when the turbo fitting arrives.

I'm stuck on crutches; I can't do much work on my bicycle project.

More than one way to skin a cat, or to use the Troy Bilt drill start mechanisms.

Update: Troy-Bilt's $2.41 adaptor can be welded to the Tanaka M10 crankshaft nut. Just be sure that the adaptor does not prevent the M10 nut from seating properly.

Reinstall and retorque the M10 nut in the same way as described above. Gut the pull start, drill a 3/4" access hole into it, and you're done!

FWIW, the Troy-Bilt drill attachment has a sprag clutch (aka one-way bearing). That means the flywheel nut or bolt will NEVER loosen up during the cordless drill starts.

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

I ordered 3 more $2.41 adaptors for my cordless drill starts.

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

Whew! I almost made two blunders!

I was about to have a friend weld two Troy-Bilt $2.41 socket adaptors onto M10 nuts.

These were to bolt onto my Tanaka 47R's crankshaft, plus one spare.

The OEM Tanaka crankshaft nut was 1mm too short in height. Even with an extra washer, the welded adaptor might bottom out before being fully tightened. So I picked up two M10 nuts which were a little taller, to weld onto the Troy-Bilt part.

As I was about to leave the store, I realized there were TWO M10 sizes, M10x1.25 and M10x1.50.

So I bought two of each M10 nuts, went home and trial-fitted them onto my spare Tanaka engine.

I'll drop these off tomorrow to weld. The drill attachment is to ensure he welds the correct ends of the adaptors onto the M10 nuts.

By Wednesday, I will no longer need to pull start The Snow Tiger's engine.

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

Well, I did it again.....

I bought THIS for the second time:
https://www.amazon.com/Troy-Bilt-Co...499166606&sr=8-2&keywords=troy-bilt+jumpstart

As the bank robber said in "Dirty Harry".....
"I gots to know".

This 12v drill is MUCH lighter than my 18v Milwaukee cordless drill.

My bike, The Snow Tiger, should have drill-start capabilities by tomorrow or Wednesday.

I'll use my 18v drill until my new 12v drill arrives next week.

If it works, it'll be light in my man purse.

If it doesn't work for me, I'll return it.

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

I bought these turbocharger oil fitting adaptors for $4.21. I'll use these to fab bolt-on brackets to drill start my pocket bike engines:

I drilled the oil fitting out to accept an M8 bolt.
The JumpStart socket adaptor will now screw onto the M8 bolt.

The adaptor's holes are for M8; I'll use spacers to accept M6 bolts.
The bolt hole spacing is perfect.
I just need to file down the adaptor to squeeze between the flywheel's pull start's notches.

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

DANG!

My drills won't start my Tanaka engines!

I tried the Troy-Bilt Jump Starter.....nope.

I tried my 18v Milwaukee cordless drill.....nope.

Maybe it's my design defect.

researching.....

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

I think it's a decrease in leverage from the 8mm Troy-bilt socket to the 17mm crankshaft nut.

That, plus the fact that this JumpStart was made for engines half my engine's size.

8mm/17mm = 53% loss in the cordless drill's torque.

I think I need to weld a 17mm socket on to this:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Troy-Bilt-JumpStart-Electric-Engine-Starter/3415794

or this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Snap-on-3-8...182941&hash=item33d2ee5d68:g:GOEAAOSwlXhZaWgy

If I calculated right, using a 17mm socket to the 17mm crankshaft nut results in zero power loss/100% leverage of the cordless drill.

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

OTOH, pocket bike(PB) engines use a tiny M6 crankshaft bolt to secure its flywheel.

I'm presuming that the M8 socket welded onto the crank's 10mm bolt head should not lose much leverage.

Orrr, to gain leverage, I can install a 17mm nut and bolt in the center hole on this: