Canada My situation; legal questions about Ontario

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elemein

New Member
Jan 26, 2012
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Canada
I have a plain question; and I just wanna jump right into it.

I came to this forum about half a year ago when I was 15. Asked about riding a gas bike here. Most of you guys said that wasnt going to happen if I wasn't licensed or other conditions weren't met.

I was pretty much "stuck" at that point.

So I became 16 and started looking around at cars and motorcycles. I live in Mississauga, Ontario, so insurance for me is not a happy thing to look for.

Cheapest car insurance? ~3,500$ a year for a Volkswagen Golf

You want HOW much a year for a car not even worth 3500?! Riiiiight. That's not happening.

I tried seeing what going on my mom's insurance would be for her CR-V if I was added on. ~ 200$ a month. I definitely cant do that seeing as when I had a part time job, I only really made 250$, or 350$ if I worked hard and cut into my studies.

So I said: "Okay. So I can't afford a car. Well lets see... They do only get 30 mpg and need constant maintenance, while a motorcycle can get 70 mpg and air cooled bikes require little maintenance."

So I kept searching for an affordable means of transportation.

Suzuki DR350SE insurance? 5,200$ a year.
Kawasaki KLX250S insurance? 4,650$ a year.

No, that doesnt make sense.

So I am forced back here. I really would appreciate some mode of transportation; but I really am not really wealthy and can spend so much money on insurance... (seriously. It's JUST insurance that's screwing me over. Gas, oil, vehicle, etc. all those other prices are fine.)

I remembered what I asked last time; is 49 cc and under okay?

Well now conditions have changed.

I can now be able to be licensed. So I want to ask again; is 49cc and under okay IF you are over 16 and can get a license?

Thanks for any answers!

Edit: Forgot to mention. The 49cc would not be in the form of a motor strapped to a bike, but a 49cc motorcycle. Is that okay?
 
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JonnyR

New Member
May 13, 2012
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ronkonkoma, new york
Re: My situation; legal questions about Ontario

49cc motorcycle is the same as any other motorcycle you need a license for it insurance for it and and to register it if you build a 49cc 4stroke bicycle i don't know about anything but the license i know there are a few people up by you that are 49cc riders with nice bikes and i dont know if they are registered or insured
 
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elemein

New Member
Jan 26, 2012
33
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Canada
Re: My situation; legal questions about Ontario

JonnyR said:
49cc motorcycle is the same as any other motorcycle you need a license for it insurance for it and and to register it if you build a 49cc 4stroke bicycle i don't know about anything but the license i know there are a few people up by you that are 49cc riders with nice bikes and i dont know if they are registered or insured
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Well it isnt exactly a motorcycle.

I just meant whatever I get, if I get one, it will appear to be a motorcycle in aesthetics (specifically, a dual sport one). I didnt know if that changed anything, so I threw it in. Though I guess this clarifies it.
 
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PhillyJ

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Oct 1, 2012
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st george utah
Re: My situation; legal questions about Ontario

reading more on the same site, it looks like your best option for "legal" sakes might be an E-Bike
 
silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
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northeastern Minnesota
Re: My situation; legal questions about Ontario

The laws in Canada are different than in the states. My understanding is that you can not legally build a gas powered bike in Canada. Nothing home made. You can do an electric bike. However, now you're talking a bunch of money again. What would the insurance run you on a 49cc moped... a used one... vintage with a title and which can be tagged and insured? I think this might be your best bet unless the insurance is so high that an electric bike is less expensive. I don't think you need either license or insurance for electric under a certain power. Pretty restrictive up there..
SB
 
paul

paul

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2007
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Kalamazoo, MI
i added Canada to your topic so maybe we can get more Canadians to help you out. that should get their attention and hopefully they can help out. we have lots of members from Canada. don't give up on a motorized bicycle. they are by far the cheapest powered transportation their is and fun to :)
 
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elemein

New Member
Jan 26, 2012
33
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Canada
Oh wow thanks for the replies everyone! I'll try to attend to each reply...

@Johnny

Thats the thing; it isnt a enduro. Basically what I want is a form of transportation that, by all means, is a limited-speed motorcycle (they have the same laws here as a moped more or less, they just allow for a higher top speed.) except that it wont appear to be one. It'll justhave the body of an enduro-- it'll still only be 49cc, ot'll still only travel less than 70km/hr, etc.

Also, getting my LSM (limited speed motorcycle) license is OK. Getting it plated is OK. Insuring it? Well... Only OK if the inurance isnt something insane like 4000/yr...

@Philly
49cc bikes would be considered LSM bikes... They're legal, I just am not sure whats necessary to ride em...

@SilverBear
Nothing homemade and gas... Yikes :/ So I assume most ofthe people here do their motorbicycling "under the radar"... I cant really do that unfortunately...

I guess my best bet for gas would be to get a motorscooter. I wonder if there is a motorscooter that doesnt look like one and instead looks like an enduro... I absolutely hate the appearance of them... Or perhaps, would it be legal to modify their appearance?

Does anyone happen to know what insurance on them is like?

Also, electric is okay? I think there is a law for that... Wasnt the limit that it could not be over "500W"? I guess I dont mind that... Its again, just the cost. As a broke highschool student slowly on his path to becoming an even more broke college student (student debt :(), there is just no way I can afford the 200-300/mth of a car, or the 5000/yr of a full motorcycle... I just cant :/

@paul

Thanks paul! And I'm not giving up. I'm still on the lookout for what I can do...
 
silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
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northeastern Minnesota
I have a friend here on the forum named Fasteddy who is Canadian and maintains that while it does not always pay to be Canadian it always costs. Ha! You've got some stiff insurance premiums there.

The Chinese plastic scooters suck. I was talking about a vintage moped... German, Italian... something from the 1960's or 70's that you could work on and be legal. You might check with the guys at Moped Army as there are no doubt some Canadians there who could advise you.

Electric might be the way to go if there are no monthly insurance costs. Someone here will know the score. Good luck to you.
SB
 
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elemein

New Member
Jan 26, 2012
33
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Canada
silverbear said:
I have a friend here on the forum named Fasteddy who is Canadian and maintains that while it does not always pay to be Canadian it always costs. Ha! You've got some stiff insurance premiums there.

The Chinese plastic scooters suck. I was talking about a vintage moped... German, Italian... something from the 1960's or 70's that you could work on and be legal. You might check with the guys at Moped Army as there are no doubt some Canadians there who could advise you.

Electric might be the way to go if there are no monthly insurance costs. Someone here will know the score. Good luck to you.
SB
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You may be correct with that last statement.

I went to MopedArmy and am talking with a few board members there.

Problems:

-What I describe is not a moped; but a limited speed motorcycle.
-They require insurance. Usually not insanely expensive, but it's still "something to do", and it aint free.
-The only really liveable 50cc ones are 2-strokes. Which I am not a fan of :(
- Insurance companies rarely even insure people under 21 for mopeds, LSMs, and motorcycles; which, pretty much negates all I want.

Looks like unless someone on MopedArmy uncovers something I haven't seen before; it looks like it's Ebike for me. I suppose that's not too bad though, right?
 
tooljunkie

tooljunkie

Member
Apr 4, 2012
663
5
16
Manitoba,Canada
at least insurance in manitoba isnt as insane,my 1980 power wagon is under 300/year.
as far as gas bikes go,i'm under the impression they are unlawful to operate.
i keep it under the radar,for now anyway.
seems to me an e-bike would be the more expensive answer,but at least one could be built on a budget.
certainly less of a hassle from the popo's
good luck.
 
CTripps

CTripps

Active Member
Aug 22, 2011
1,310
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Vancouver, B.C.
I remember Ontario insurance rates.. they start at steep and move rapidly to crippling for a young guy. It's not much better here, we're required to have provincial insurance in addition to any coverage you want from another company.

From the way it looks, you're going to be able to have fun with some bureaucrats if you want to. Start with making calls to the MTO office to find out how you would register your after-market conversion bike as a platable vehicle. (What info do they need?). Going back and forth with them and insisting that as a law-abiding citizen you want to do this the right way should lead one or two of them to having to take some stress days off. ;)

From there you'll be able to find out what category they consider it to be and then be able to track down a (hopefully) good insurance rate. If you can get added on to the family vehicle policy it should save a few per cent.

So far I haven't had any problems out here. The few times I have passed by police I've always cut the throttle down and buzzed by at idle speed. I smile and wave, they smile and wave back. I wait until I'm a bit farther away before I open it up again too. There's no need for them to know what it's actually capable of. ;)
 
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elemein

New Member
Jan 26, 2012
33
0
0
Canada
So hey guys, I have done some reading and tried to see the most legal way of working in what I want.

What I want:
- It to look like a dual sport motorcycle
- No or little insurance needed
- No or little licensing needed
- No or little registration needed
- Great gas mileage
- As legal as possible
- Reliable

Now, if I went the gasoline engine route, then I'd be doing the pretty much "most illegal way" of getting what I want.

Now, if I go the ebike route, I CAN get what I want to an extent; look!:

- It to look like a dual sport motorcycle ;; Yep! Doesn't need to be a step-through design! Sweeeet!
- No or little insurance needed ;; ZERO needed! They're permamently allowed on roads!
- No or little licensing needed ;; I just needa be over 16! That's it! Though I'm sure getting my M or LSM can only help!
- No or little registration needed ;; ZERO needed!
- Great gas mileage ;; They use no gas to begin with!
- As legal as possible ;; Errr... Sortof... Well, it's the best I'll get.
- Reliable ;; Should be all reliable besides the batteries going bad after a few years

So basically, this is the answer. I'll be able to pretty much just have an electric dual sport (reminds me of the Zero Motorcycles) with foldable pedals (they're needed...) and a label in both languages saying it's an ebike. That's it.

Yeah sure, it isnt the cheapest, but hey, it'll work! I'm happy with it! Now I know what to shoot for!
 
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JonnyR

New Member
May 13, 2012
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ronkonkoma, new york
lol i asked him to contact you to inform you of the laws up there he has a good handle on them he had some interesting things i cant remember any of something to do with weight and it needing to be 49cc or less
 
silverbear

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
8,325
670
113
northeastern Minnesota
It sounds like the ebike is likely the simplest way to go for you. Several members here are using the Magic Pie electric kit from Golden Motors. You can install it on just abut any kind of bike you want, quick and easy. Take a look at some recent threads on ebikes and you might like what you see.
SB
 
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elemein

New Member
Jan 26, 2012
33
0
0
Canada
silverbear said:
It sounds like the ebike is likely the simplest way to go for you. Several members here are using the Magic Pie electric kit from Golden Motors. You can install it on just abut any kind of bike you want, quick and easy. Take a look at some recent threads on ebikes and you might like what you see.
SB
Click to expand...
Oh wow, those do looks like good motors.

I really am thinking this will be my DD for college. As long as power is good enough for around-town and range will last me a day, I really think this is good to go.

And I can even get it to look just how I want it to! Looks like it's time to get on the "drawing board" so to speak as I can legally start this build now, as I am over 16...

Hrmm... I wonder if it'd be easier to get a bicycle and convert it to an ebike and then make it look like a motorcycle, or to get a motorcycle from the scrapyard, swap out the parts and convert it to Ebike specs...

Hrmmm... And it's all with no insurance and only cents per mile? Seems awesome! I'm really liking this!
 
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