Breather

Discussion in 'Whizzer Motorized Bicycles' started by OG-Whizzerdude, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

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    Some 8yrs from my last post here. Still no need for any aid,and I know why.
    Better take a look in here. Most of you guys have missed it.

    Ray 20190828_155042.jpg 20190828_155018.jpg 20190828_155151.jpg
     
  2. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

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    Let me know if you need any help at what your looking at.

    Ray
     
    indian22 likes this.
  3. wrench

    wrench New Member

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    Howzit Everyone,
    I would like to share some more info about air oil modifications.
    This is what works for me and what didn't work for me.
    Modifications I write about are suggestions only.
    My opinion is based on testing modifications.

    Back in 2008 I noticed a modification Quenton had suggested.
    He made an air oil passage tube and positioned it 1/4" from the top of the valve cavity.
    He drilled holes in the sides of the tube bottom for oil drainage.
    He made the hole in the cyl base gasket 1/2 the normal size.
    This was in an effort to minimize the amount of oil that could pass through the valve cover vent port.

    In my opinion, This didn't help the oil from escaping out the vent port much. The air oil still had a direct path to the valve cover vent port.
    With the air oil passage tube top being only a 1/4" from the valve guides. This increased the air oil pressure directly into the valve guides. Causing more valve guide oil blow by.
    By reducing the hole in the cyl base gasket This only increased the air oil pressure.

    These modifications were not working for me.
    But it gave me some ideas. I followed Quentons lead
    .
    My design changes to the Air Oil Passage Tube and Cyl Base Gasket.
    I made the cyl base gasket hole full size. Bigger hole means less pressure.
    I used 3/8" ID threaded tubing to make my air oil passage tube.
    I screwed in the tube instead of pressing in the tube
    I positioned my air oil passage tube to butt against the top of the valve cavity. I notched the top rear and the bottom rear of the air oil passage tube for air and oil circulation.
    By making the air oil passage tube butt against the top of the valve cavity The air oil is redirected through the top rear notch in the tube and to the back wall of the valve cavity. This tube position controls the air oil even more reducing valve guide oil blow by.
    The air oil no longer has a direct path to the valve cover vent port or the valve guides
    I found this to be the best position of the air oil passage tube.

    For the Seatpost C.A.O.S. Breather to perform 100%
    The use of an air oil passage tube is not required.

    I do not use special pistons or lower amounts of oil with an oil stabilizer in order to control the air oil mist from the breather hoses.
    The Seatpost C.A.O.S.Breather will control 8oz to 10 oz no problem.
    I use 20-50w oil with zinc

    With my design of the Seatpost C.A.O.S. Breather the only thing one can see is a hose fitting on the backside of the seatpost.
    The Seatpost C.A.O.S. Breather allows 0% of air oil mist to escape into the atmosphere also prevents any dirt from getting into the engine.
    Open vent hoses will suck dirt into the engine.
    I hope this info can help someone.

    I know there is more than one way to skin a Kat .
    Aloha Wrench
     

    Attached Files:

    #43 wrench, Sep 6, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  4. wrench

    wrench New Member

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    50+ DSCF8720.JPG
     
    #44 wrench, Sep 7, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  5. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

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    You have changed your post. To bad.
    Your air,oil separator in the tappet cavity is too big. Adding more oil to the crank case only worsens the problem. The motor can't even handle 8 oz of motor oil with the modifications. Adding more Heat, guess what's going to happen.
    Running your motor at 30 miles an hour with all the riding that you do, you wouldn't have any problems whatsoever with oil purging. Heat.
    Heat from the top of the motor,being transfer to the case, stopping the oil from doing what it's supposed to do.
    At what RPM's is there turbulence or from the heat.

    I don't have any of these symptoms.

    Ray
     
  6. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

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    information!

    Ray 20190903_215519.png 20190828_161043.jpg 20190906_214755.jpg 20181123_132251.jpg IMG_53141.jpg 20181202_125518.jpg 5581135531.jpg
     
  7. wrench

    wrench New Member

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    I see in the pictures some kind of C.A.O.S. Breather.
    Looks like one off a Cushman.
    I'm glad your happy with your modifications.
    I guess their working for you
    Your always so worried about HEAT.

    I did my modifications 10 years ago
    My air oil passage tube has a 3/8" ID
    My Modifications work for me just fine.
    Don't forget Modifications are Just Suggestions.
    I would of noticed by now after 37,000 miles on my Whizzer. If I had a problem with Heat.
    She runs just fine.
    Without all the fancy heat coatings you like to brag about so much.

    There is more than one way to skin a Kat

    Yea I change my post sometimes I don't like my sentence structure.
     

    Attached Files:

    #47 wrench, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  8. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

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    Some more information, the next time you change your oil, only put in 7 oz.
    The vintage whizzer use 6 to 8 oz.
    So can you.


    Ray
     
  9. wrench

    wrench New Member

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    Howzit Ray,
    Thanks for the suggestion.
    That's what Whizzer USA Debbie or Dave used to recommend.
    They had no solution for the oil venting problem.
    They told me that I was the only one who had that problem.

    This is a New Gen Motor not a Vintage motor.
    I suggest you try 8oz to 10oz of oil.
    With a breather system that can control that much oil.
    Maybe you won't have a heat problem.
    These air cooled motors rely even more on the correct volume of oil for proper cooling.
    I would not want leave for a 100 mile ride with only 6oz to 7oz of oil in the case.
    In my opinion that's when ya should add a few oz of oil.
    After 100 miles I change the oil anyways.
    ALOHA Wrench
     
    #49 wrench, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  10. wrench

    wrench New Member

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    Howzit Ray,
    Why do ya think Vintage whizzer upgraded from a short breather to a tall breather?
    Do ya think it was to add more oil for better cooling?
    Aloha Wrench
     
    #50 wrench, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
  11. wrench

    wrench New Member

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    DSCF8603.JPG
     
    #51 wrench, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  12. wrench

    wrench New Member

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    Howzit Ray ,
    Think about this.
    A full sized Air Cooled motorcycle takes around 1 Gal of oil.
    When the oil get's about 10oz low the oil light comes on.
    The oil light came on to tell ya it's ready to start overheating
    Add some oil.

    The New Gen Whizzer Motor takes 8oz of oil.
    Don't forget the motor was Made in Taiwan.
    Taiwan Specs. Close Enough is Good Enough

    Taiwan Dipstick
    Taiwan first made a dipsticks marked for 10oz of oil.
    When Taiwan put the 10oz dipstick in the case the oil reading was off at 8oz
    Instead of making a new dip stick Taiwan just removed the 10oz mark and stamped 8oz
    Taiwan changed the number 10oz mark to 8oz in the casting mold.
    This worked for Taiwan because Taiwan realized they had an oil venting problem.
    Taiwan in an attempt to minimize the oil venting accepted 8oz of oil which was still safe.
    Taiwan accepted the 8oz oil mark as full. When in reality one should add 2oz to make 10oz Full
    Just my opinion of how the 10oz dipstick turned into a 8oz dipstick.
    Some people say the motor was designed to take 6oz to 8oz of oil. That Taiwan was so stupid that they made a 10oz dipstick by mistake? Yea the mark didn't register true. But I don't think 10oz was a mistake.

    The 10oz Dipstick is a rare collectors item
    Quenton has one in his rare Whizzer items collection

    It took Taiwan 9 years to 2008 to come out with their version of a C.A.O.S. Breather - Cruzzer's Big Breather.
    The Big Breather can control 8oz to 10oz of oil.
    My Seatpost C.A.O.S. Breather can control 8oz to 10oz of oil.
    I made the Seatpost C.A.O.S. Breather in 2006.
    The correct oil volume might be 8oz to 10oz of oil.

    You want to run the motor with only 6oz or 7oz of oil.
    In an attempt to control the oil venting problem.
    You just shorted the volume by 3oz of oil.
    Your OVERHEATING. Your Low on Oil
    I have seen the extra effort you put into Fancy Heat Coatings.
    So Smart you are. You came up with a solution.
    ALOHA Wrench
     

    Attached Files:

    #52 wrench, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  13. wrench

    wrench New Member

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    Howzit Ray,
    You have been pushing your Ideas of only using 6oz to 7oz of oil in the New Gen Whizzer Motor for the last Ten Years.
    Why don't you tell us all why using less oil is a good idea?

    That bike in the picture was a nice gift you say your friend gave you.
    I see you even use a Cushman C.A.O.S. Breather.
    But you still use 6oz to 7oz of oil Why?
    Is the Cushman Breather too small?

    There is something that you think most of us guys missed?
    Maybe you should Explain.
    Someone might not understand.
    Volunteer the info don't make it a mystery?

    You also have this theory about Heat and Heat Turbulence and why less oil is better for Heat?.
    I'm very interested in learning more about this theory Please Explain. Post # 45

    You Claim Heat is a problem.
    You put Fancy Heat Coatings on Everything.
    You even put a Heat Coating on your Skinned Kat.

    By the way Heat Coatings and Special Pistons are Cool.
    But the average Whizzer Rider ain't gonna go through the trouble and cost$
    Whizzer Riders just want to RIDE and be able to control the oil.

    C.A.O.S. and C.A.O.S. Breathers that work good with 8oz to 10oz of oil.
    Quenton, The PVC C.A.O.S. controls 8oz to 9oz
    Quenton, The Big rubber Hose C.A.O.S. controls 8oz to 9oz
    Wrench, The Seatpost C.A.O.S. Breather controls 8oz to 10oz
    Cruzzer, The Big Breather C.A.O.S.controls 8oz to 10oz
    For sale after market C.A.O.S. Breathers control 8oz to 10oz
    Use a Catch Can add 2oz oil every 25 miles. controls 8oz to 10oz
    Oil Catch Can should use Stock Vent Hose With Air Stone.

    With the correct volume of oil 8oz to 10oz the New Gen Whizzer Motor dose not overheat

    You claim that my Air Oil Passage Tube is too big.
    You claim that it would not work. Please explain more.
    Your explanation of too much oil was WRONG.

    For the last 8 years you claim the Air Oil Passage Tube is an Air Oil Separator Tube.
    For your Info the Air Oil passes through the Air Oil Passage Tube.
    The Air Oil is not separated in the Tube.
    Your giving Everyone the WRONG impression of the Tube.
    Explain your theory of why you call it an Air Oil Separator Tube?


    There is no reason for using only 6oz to 7oz of oil with the New Gen Whizzer Motor.
    Why don't you tell us all why you recommend using less oil?


    Ray,
    Now's your chance to back up all of your claims over the last 10 years.

    ALOHA Wrench
     

    Attached Files:

    #53 wrench, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  14. wrench

    wrench New Member

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    Howzit Ray,
    I remember something your very proud of.
    You say your biggest contribution to the Whizzer World.
    Was you showing and recommending the use of Heat Coatings for the WC-1
    When all's you really did was to make everyone Worry about Heat and Chase HEAT Gremlins.
    This was all caused by you always recommending to use less oil 6oz to 7oz.
    Because you were so sure the New Gen Whizzer Motor could not handle even 8oz of oil.

    Don't you realize how much oil is in the valve cavity and the LH case vent chamber.
    Not to mention if your using a C.A.O.S. Breather.
    As the motor is running the oil level is going down 1oz even more
    Because motors use up oil. The longer the motor runs the more oil it uses.
    If your only using 6oz to 7oz of oil.
    That means your only left with about 2oz in the bottom of the case to splash around.
    Your OVERHEATING.

    These Air and Oil Cooled Motors. Rely on the Correct Volume of Oil even more for Proper Cooling

    No wonder why you enjoy claiming you don't need any aid with your motor..
    Of course you don't need any aid.
    No oil is gonna vent out. You hardly have any oil in there anyways.

    I'm sure your very proud of yourself for coming up with a solution for the Heat Problem you created. SO SMART YOU ARE.

    There is more than one way to skin a Kat.
    ALOHA Wrench.
     

    Attached Files:

    #54 wrench, Sep 12, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  15. wrench

    wrench New Member

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    DSCF9033.JPG
    Just to get your attention
     
    #55 wrench, Sep 12, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  16. wrench

    wrench New Member

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    DSCF9035.JPG
    Just for the record
     
    #56 wrench, Sep 12, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  17. wrench

    wrench New Member

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    Howzit Everyone,
    The Case LH Vent Chamber.

    What mason_man Ray seems to think most of us guys missed is no big mystery.
    The Case LH Vent Chamber has always been there in plain view.

    On the Early NE -5 New Gen Whizzer motors the case LH vent port was sealed with a lead plug
    All's one had to do was to drill and tap it for a 3/8" hose fitting.

    Later Cruzzer Motors came with a metric hose fitting.
    The Metric threads can be re tapped to 3/8" pipe threads
    See Post # 39 and #40 For INFO
    Pictures should explain everything

    Casting Slag
    The case LH vent chamber should be checked for casting slag.
    Sometimes the bottom LH vent chamber drain hole is sealed over with slag and must be opened up for oil drainage.
    Split the Case. Check all air oil passage ways and clean off any slag.
    Taiwan - specifications - Close Enough is Good Enough

    I use the LH vent chamber for more air flow and it also offers excellent oil drainage back from the Seatpost C.A.O.S. Breather..
    See Post #41 To see inside case LH vent chambe

    We all know about the WC-1
    The emission oil blow by and breather system was a failure.
    All efforts by Whizzer USA to make the WC-1 Emission and breather system perform properly Failed.

    With the NE-5
    I suggest to use a C.A.O.S. Breather that can control 8oz to 10oz of oil.
    I suggest to use 2 hoses one to the valve cover vent port and one to the LH case vent port.
    I suggest to route all hoses to run up hill. Oil has a much harder time going up hill.

    Modifications are suggestions.
    Vent your New Gen Whizzer motor how you think is best.

    I hope this info can help someone

    ALOHA Wrench

    Pictures are of a NE-5
     

    Attached Files:

    #57 wrench, Sep 15, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2019
  18. mason_man

    mason_man Active Member

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    20190828_161011.jpg 20190828_162331.jpg 20190828_162240.jpg Wernch you're alittle confused here. Let me help you out. The WC-1's were the only ones to use is breather. For some odd reason, the NE's and SE's didn't use the breather. The SE motor was the last series motor made by Whizzer USA .
    Your motor NE had a soft plug, SE nothing,drill and tap. No NE motor use this breather. Unless you have something that shows, says something different.

    Whizzer Service Bulletin #1 12/31/98 cleared this up for the WC-1, you'll need more history for your model.
    Anyway, here's a picture of the SE motor (early) motor number 36 showing no hole for the breather.
    Odd huh :)
     
  19. wrench

    wrench New Member

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    DSCF9133.JPG Ray,
    Your sense of helping me out is pointless
    Your Confused
    Your not worth talking to
    No wonder why many well respected members say your a
    pain in the a**

    Your the one who came at me with a Monkey Wrench. Posts #45 #48
    I just took it from you and hit you over the head with it.

    See Post #49 #50 #52 #53 and #54

    If you would like to give a Whizzer Motors History Lesson.
    Please feel free to do so.
    I know your dying to show everyone how smart you are.
    DON'T TREAD your History Lesson ON ME.
     
    #59 wrench, Sep 16, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  20. wrench

    wrench New Member

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    The Seatpost C.A.O.S. Breather See Post #39 DSCF7822.JPG DSCF8464.JPG
     

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