Boxer-Morini issues

[ocho ninja]

Yea I was looking at that thread after I did my last post.

But I still can't find these blasted trust washers. Looked at franco Morini USA and the herdan website. Unless I'm looking in the wrong areas

The only thing that Morini USA has are the spring washer for $60!
Are those the ones I need?

 

[Goat Herder]

Morini USA has never stocked those washers. Kinda rough I mean if a guy buys their ''Chinese'' Grippa clutch they cannot get everything they need. Will not have a bearing brass bushing for their Chinese bell ether. You will have to call Herdan. They stock those washers the only way I got them before from Herdan was I gave them a phone call. Sorry I should have said that.

 

[ocho ninja]

Okay, I'll give em a call tomm.
What sizes would u recommend?
The same as the ones mentioned in that other thread?

 

[Goat Herder]

You will have to cross that bridge? Measure what you got first..

 

[Goat Herder]

Okay, I'll give em a call tomm.
What sizes would u recommend?
The same as the ones mentioned in that other thread?

You will want to fine tune it by taking the perfect amount of slack out.. http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=40246&page=2

I ended up using two very thin washers on my last clutch. I only had some washers that were a bit too thick at the time it was very tricky and time consuming. Made those washers thinner till my play was right. Potentially brutal operation finding the right ratchet handle and very gently twirling them at the bench grinder, then sand paper.. Last putting the rough edges facing each other and not the crank or clutch hub.

In the end my clutch was a bit too tight and scared me a little. I got lucky it loosened up. Please use some intelligent discretion here.. As you do want to have a minute amount of play if set up right. Think perhaps of bicycle bearings for instance.

My advice get the thinnest thrust washers and you should be just fine, fine tuning your end play. With out the hassle I went through. It would be wise to measure the thickness of the washer you have for a accurate guesstimate in this equation.

 

[ocho ninja]

I'm still trying to get a feel for what will be a good amount of play.

I'm guessing a good amount will be something that is only felt by slowly and carefully moving the bell about.

Can that brass bushings on the clutch bell contribute to play on the bell?
Is it easily replaceable?

 

[Goat Herder]

I'm still trying to get a feel for what will be a good amount of play.

I'm guessing a good amount will be something that is only felt by slowly and carefully moving the bell about.

Yeah the thrust washers have to act like a bearing too.

Can that brass bushings on the clutch bell contribute to play on the bell?
Is it easily replaceable?

Sure it can wear out. Here is a reply from that other thread...

The brass bushing on my clutch came with spiral cut oil groves in it. For me this is my interpretation of how my wear is on it. My oil groves are still very nicely pronounced. These said oil groves basically only have so much depth to them. When my groves get a bit shallower then will replace my bushing. This is my take on it anyway.. ''Shrug''

I have a few miles on this said brass bushing. ball park of roughly 8000 miles..Mine is in great condition currantly.. I am of the opinion personally that all the clutches have to be set up right by the end user. So far two of my motors had too much play in that bell.. ''thrust washers'' fixed them right up perfectly for me.''

 

[ocho ninja]

Cool beans
I just got my parts from herdan.

I ordered some exaust o rings, if you recall i needed them for a while.
Got two .6mm thrust washers and two .8mm
Also got a new twist throttle cause my old one was broken off from where you can adjust the play on the cable... Still worked fine, just it looked ugly to me


I'm gonna play around with my clutch tomm, got my piston stop tool and I custom made a clutch nut tool out of an socket with thicker walls.

Thanks a lot for all the help, info, and your patience goat herder. It was much appreciated.... With out you, all of us Morini newbies would lost and hopeless.


Il report back on how it runs after I get my wheel built up, I can true but I still can't lace em =|

 

[ocho ninja]

So i played around with my washers that I had at home until I thought I had it right... Even made my own clutch nut tool to make my life easier.

I bought some red permatex thread locker and a bigger torque wrench...
Applied the thread locker torqued the nut... Checked the bell, still play but not as much as before. Put the cover and filled up with oil again.

took for a brief ride, and still heard the sound again... So I waited until the next day for the locktiet to sit and to take it for a proper ride.

Didn't get a chance to ride until today... Planed a short 5 mile ride.

Was riding nice, still had the power I loved... It even stoped making the grinding sound.

I was on my way back, about 2 miles from my house when I tried to come to a stop and the clutch wouldn't disengage and the engine stalled when I came to a stop.

Got scared though the blasted nut got loose, so removed the motor side chain and pedeled that heavy SOB of a bike home

Got home drained and removed the cover and saw that one of the three bolts that holds the clutch shoes was backed all the way out and had locked the clutch and the bell

QUESTION IS how or why does this happen, what could I do to prevent it and what the torque spec? I thunk it was like 80 inch pounds idk

Thanks for listening to my problems, any help or opinions will be appreciated.

 

[Dave31]

So i played around with my washers that I had at home until I thought I had it right... Even made my own clutch nut tool to make my life easier.

I bought some red permatex thread locker and a bigger torque wrench...
Applied the thread locker torqued the nut... Checked the bell, still play but not as much as before. Put the cover and filled up with oil again.

took for a brief ride, and still heard the sound again... So I waited until the next day for the locktiet to sit and to take it for a proper ride.

Didn't get a chance to ride until today... Planed a short 5 mile ride.

Was riding nice, still had the power I loved... It even stoped making the grinding sound.

I was on my way back, about 2 miles from my house when I tried to come to a stop and the clutch wouldn't disengage and the engine stalled when I came to a stop.

Got scared though the blasted nut got loose, so removed the motor side chain and pedeled that heavy SOB of a bike home

Got home drained and removed the cover and saw that one of the three bolts that holds the clutch shoes was backed all the way out and had locked the clutch and the bell

QUESTION IS how or why does this happen, what could I do to prevent it and what the torque spec? I thunk it was like 80 inch pounds idk

Thanks for listening to my problems, any help or opinions will be appreciated.

I only had that happen once, but using loctite solved my problem of the bolts backing out.

 

[Goat Herder]

sorry to hear about your luck. The bell and clutch will still work . Get riding..

I have yet to actually use a torque wrench on my clutch. I have a fair feel of things from turning wrenches for a living. A typical spark plug would be like 15 foot pounds to give you an idea. . My worry is those three tiny clutch bolts some guy will snap them from trying to tighten them too much. Your wrench will be fine for that in lu of loctite.. .

Ayup every fastener on the clutch itself needs lock tight! The cover that holds in the oil does not need lock tight. The clutch will need lock tight however....
I personally use red lock tight and will from here on. Just from my own experience. Have found when I disassemble my clutch when it is warmed up a bit ....playing hot potato just a tad. I do not ever have to fight with the lock tight during disassembly .. Also this goes back to using a suggested high temp grade lock tight as well.

Last of course lock tight is a glue. Glue needs time to set up.. Glue does not stick to slick oily surfaces..

Only 8 foot pounds max on the three clutch bolts.. About 24 on the crank nut..

 

[maniac57]

I have a morini s6c mounted on a giant mountainbike, running a 44 tooth sprocket on the rear hub. The engine has so much torque the tire keeps slipping on the rim, pulling the stem of the inner tube at an angle. Eventually the tube pulls so much that the stem rips out of the tube. Can anyone provide me with any ideas on how to prevent this from continuing to happen? Ive boughten 10 inner tubes in the last three months...

Try roughing up the inner rim surface with coarse grit sandpaper and run more air pressure in the tire. Worked for me...

 

[ocho ninja]

Update:

I've been riding my boxer around a lot lately sine my other bike can't stop getting flats

I hear the noise very rarely now, usually after ive been riding for like 30min and I come to a dead stop after a long straight.

Also I was inspecting and cleaning it when I noticed that couple of the spokes were loosening up.
Brand new dh rim with 12g spokes built by a guy at the LBS who can literally true a rim in his sleep cause he has been doing it most his life and he build MaBs also

Any thoughts what might be causing this?

 

[Goat Herder]

First rear wheel set up my bike came with. Spokes were loosing up constantly. It about ruined my faith in ever enjoying my machine. It was like every 300 miles.

So like I waited for three days to go by when the Local LBS had time for it. He said my spokes were to long.... That my wheel set needed about 1/4 inch shorter? or so.. OK what ever. I road that thing on those spokes and dropped what I was doing forever re-tightening them darn things. Took the fun out of things until I restored my faith and began to preload them more properly... after this the wheel began to stay tight .

Problem was those spoke being way too long robbed part of the threading from the seen that the nut resides on. In short the spoke nuts were gripping like one quarter of the available threads.. A natural and proper preload in my situation with the right length spokes left the nut gripping on threads through and through. After proper preload they never came loose again.. Think mebbe those ols spokes stretched dunno?

In the end I took my hub threw the spokes and rim to the side. Put a Large Marge rim and new spokes. The ones from Holmes Hobbies. Had a long talk with him and my said 14 gauge spokes ''he told me to use'' are hella plenty strong.. I got the stainless Sapians. Used a online spoke calculator for the proper ''correct'' spoke length.

Set down laced up my very first wheel in an hour. ''Was for the other bike'' Figured out it was just too darned easy. Road the bike to my buddies house with a L.M. rim around my neck with a new tire and spokes in a back pack. Just to show off I laced my next wheel up on his couch in front of the TV. Just under one hour. With the commitment of riding home or carrying the bike. .. No truing stand of any kind what so ever was used. Never has this wheel seen one, or any of my wheels.. Can do a little eyeballing off the frame . The back of the BoXer frame is perfectly Square no dishing is at all necessary.

I have road every day since that wheel was constructed and have absolutely never ever had to do a follow up on it of any kind.. Spokes are perfectly text book perfect tight as I type to you same as I last touched them on that day.. No I did not use lock tight on my spokes and NEVER WILL

What did I learn? Some things I feel better doing myself? Not all the time lol. Here is the secrete. Every spoke is the same length. This means methodically stepped in the spokes , tightening the spoke little by little can be easily achieved looking at the top of the spoke nuts and using a screw driver until the screw drivers slips off. Don't use a crappy screw driver ether I used a good one.

Took my time stress releaving spokes and making them relax. Took a ton of methodical patient laps around the wheel with that screw driver and releaving stress always marking my spot where I left off..

Then my last two/three rounds I use a spoke wrench. I eyeballed the rim seam where the rim is formed and joined together and made a slight correction there. Done deal.. My three wheels are as straight and true as any bicycle wheel comes..


Oh Yeah there is a friggin huge night and day difference from a generic said 14 gauge spoke on a department store bike and these said Sapians. These Sapians look the bomb to me.Yeah they are thicker too. http://holmeshobbies.com/ They are holding up to the rigors of electric motors..

This bike flat out kicks butt for me. Nothing comes loose or ever breaks..No complaints at all. For the price I got it at... gosh in hind sight it could have come with wet noodles for spokes lol and I would have made do.

The only prob I ever had was I needed to over haul my wheel

Just trying to help shed some hope for you. Yes a rear wheel will hold up on this machine!! I weigh over 200 pounds try 260? With never ending cargo too. This machine has been abused .. Still it just will not die it keeps on going...

Sometimes I feel guilty after pricing down hill components, R&D time design, craftsmanship.etc...I really did get a smoking deal on this bike!!

 

[Goat Herder]

All the while I was riding my new machine. I could not help but look back to my first Morini. It had a Nuvinci Wheel that I got that hub hot enough to darn near catch fire on a few occasions. 14 gauge spokes on it too. They had perfect preload from the factory was why. Lasted over 3000 miles and still is perfect . I began to figure this out after studying wheels sets that ''always worked''

I shifted it ridiculously hard and did everything to break it. I never had a spoke problem with that wheel never did have to touch a spoke .. I will never do a Nuvinci wheel again,, never had a spoke problemy with it tho.

This custom spoke wheel i presently spoked is now the same way. So far bullet proof.. To me the proper length spokes and the proper preload. If a fellow wants a good 14 gauge spoke go with those Sapians. They don't look like a typical Chinese 14 spoke...


Last hate to say it but have never been fully impressed with any of my local LBS's

Holms hobbies does custom wheels too. Another fellow local close by to you! I highly recommend is Venice http://www.venicemotorbikes.com/ he knows his stuff and builds awesome custom wheels!

 

[george_n_texas]

Other than the heat buildup of the Nuvinci did you like the performance? Not that I have the bux right now for it I'm just curious how it performed. I'm betting a little motorkote in that hub would reduce the friction to make it work if that was the only issue. It made the temp of my turbo in a Peterbuilt go way down.

 

[Goat Herder]

For short trips sure. They are inefficient power robbers. My currant bike does absolutely every thing better with out that hub perfectly . The Morini does not need a Nuvinci hub IME.

Depends on the individual I guess shrug. No more N.V.'s for me. One chain one clutch. It works perfect.. The KISS principle....

 

[george_n_texas]

I had heard there were issues thanks for the heads up. I didn't know what all the problems were.