A Warning to those looking in getting a Chinese engine kit

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Cr9ck, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. Cr9ck

    Cr9ck New Member

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    All I have had is problems with my bike.

    Here is a list of all of the issues I have had or am still having

    3 striped studs (2 exhaust and 1 head bolt)
    Clinking engine
    head gasket getting hit by the piston
    Multiple Air leaks (carb to intake still not fixed)
    leaking fuel valve
    Gas leak
    Broken clutch grip
    Misaligned rear sprocket (need to fix - original donuts too big)
    Chain Tensioner sucks (misaligned)


    Do not buy one of these kits unless you are really into engines and want a "fun" hobby of tinkering with them. I have spent probably over $350 trying to get this dang thing working. Its driving me insane. If its not one thing it is another. Either buy a pre-built working bike (which you will still have to tinker with) or get a Titan engine. My main form of transport is currently unusable because the dang engine isn't working.

    So anyone thinking about buying one... Its not going to be a joy ride for awhile....

    None the less when it was running it was fun....
     
  2. stude13

    stude13 New Member

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    hi; they can be a pain and a great hobby. why not enter your home town? you might have someone close by for hints. all of your problems have been answered here. keep at it and use search function. good luck mitch
     
  3. xPosTech

    xPosTech The Old Master Motorized Bicycle Builder

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    Did you do the installation on your bike? Or have a shop install it?

    The reason I ask is most of the problems you cite are known problem areas. You say you have spent $350 "trying to get this dang thing working", which leads me to believe you were not the installer. If you did install it, some questions.

    3 striped studs (2 exhaust and 1 head bolt)
    Do you have and did you use a torque wrench?

    Clinking engine
    Not sure to what this refers.

    head gasket getting hit by the piston
    Was this before or after you tore into the engine?

    Multiple Air leaks (carb to intake still not fixed)
    Easy fix. Did you use gaskets or O rings? I know they weren't included in the kit but . . .

    leaking fuel valve
    Known issue. Cheap valve. Did you look at it closely before you installed it?

    Gas leak
    Same leak? Or the tank? Did you try sealer? The crummy fuel line?

    Broken clutch grip
    Known low quality issue. The clutch grip was upgraded on higher quality kits a while back and this needs upgrading as well. Lots of riders modify a grip shifter or brake grip.

    Misaligned rear sprocket (need to fix - original donuts too big)
    Donuts too big? Thin outside the spokes, thick inside. Or are you saying they are too big radially? Are you referring to chain line misalignment? Alignment is part of installation and maintenance.

    Chain Tensioner sucks (misaligned)
    Known problem area. Lots of riders don't use it. Agreed, it sucks. I use a scooter chain tensioner. Some use none at all.

    Last question. Are you doing your own maintenance? If not you are being taken advantage of. Find another mechanic.

    These engine kits are for the hobbyist and tinkerer. Some builds will never be finished because the rider is constantly upgrading what he considers needing upgrading.

    They should not be a primary mode of transportation. (They can be, but they are definitely not "turnkey" stick the engine in and go.) Most of the "fun" is installing it and getting all the bugs worked out. When that happens, most of us are looking for another build.

    Advertisers take great liberties when describing their products. That's why they sell millions of those magnetic fuel line gas mileage enhancement devices. Or the stain removers that lift India ink from white carpet. Most of the stuff Billy Wills pushes. I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

    If you post questions about how to fix any part of your bike or engine, you will get the help. Lots of us are just waiting for someone looking for an answer that we know something about or have had the same problem. Don't give up the ship.

    Ted
     
  4. Creative Engineering

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    Warning! Warning!, Warning! WILL ROBINSON!

    A Chinese engine kit "may" require a proper installation in order to work!!!

    Maybe I will actually have to "think" about how I'm going to install this kit on my bike!

    (I want my instant gratification...I want my MTV)

    Instead of criticizing what comes with the kit...Have the patience to look at the glass half full instead of half empty. I'm in awe of how they can provide this much, (hardware), fun for the money...

    These kits do not offer the instant gratification that most are used too.

    These kits require a bit of work to make them work! For most this is part of the fun of DOING it!!!

    Jim
     
  5. Creative Engineering

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    I didn't consider the fact that you may not have installed your kit.

    Jim
     
  6. Pablo

    Pablo Master Bike Builder & Forum Sponsor

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    That's it?

    Wow you got a good one! Just kidding. That's actually pretty standard stuff, just take patience....trying I know.
     
  7. Technocyclist

    Technocyclist Motorized Bicycle Senior Technologist

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    Yup, these chengines can be a really headache sometimes...but that's what makes it fun... It's the challenge. Despite all the hardships, you can feel some satisfaction that you accomplished something that does not work right, to make it right. It does takes a lot of patience and research. All the problems you mentioned have their solutions...You gotta have a little "McGyver" in you... Just improvise...That's what most of us do here...Nothing is perfect, even the most luxurious cars has it flaws... just take 2 apsirins and call me in the morning... :)

    BTW, my MB is my primary mode of transportation... and I do plan to build another one. :)
     
    #7 Technocyclist, Nov 14, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2008
  8. Bikesthatgo

    Bikesthatgo New Member

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    Been there done all that well most of it, being a marine engineer I replaced a lot of the nuts and bolts anyway, then stripped the motor and put it all back together. Made some rubber engine mounts, and a spring chain tensioner, put lead lining in places, a good inline filter, and now I'm very happy well over 2,000 klm, and she still has plenty of go, usually sit on about 30 mph.
    But I'm always aware its a pushbike, ans as such needs alot of respect in just how much it can take, and the brakes can be an issue, I installed a Sturmy Archer front drum brake, and will soon install a back pedal brake on the rear.
    But most of all I look at it as a great hobby, can think of a few more that cost lots more :ride2:
     
  9. deacon

    deacon minor bike philosopher

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    When I had my bike I loved it but it did require a lot of checking for loose nuts and bolts and yes I had all those problems. It's part of the fun. If you had done some research before you bought it. IE read here you would have expected all that to happen and been mentally prepared for it. That said, you can spend as much or as little as you want on these engine kits.

    I am not sure the amount you spend has any correlation to the amount of fun you get back.
     
  10. Bikeguy Joe

    Bikeguy Joe Godfather of Motorized Bicycles

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    I like the fact that they are sooooo funky and hit or miss quality sometimes you LIKE hacking up the mufflers and doing different things to "modify" them. You wouldn't do that with a Ferrari, know what I'm sayin'?
     
  11. Walter F.

    Walter F. New Member

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    NONE THE LESS WHEN IT WAS RUNNING IT WAS FUN. I'm gonna put that up in my shop. Maybe you and your bike need a rest from each other, give it a week and don't think about it and don't touch it, then when you go back remember what YOU said, "None the less when it was running it was fun" then sell it or fix-it and quit crying in your beer. Happy Hills & Trails Walter F.
     
  12. ebmvegan

    ebmvegan New Member

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    Sorry to hear that you're having some trouble. I was very fortunate that whe I first installed the motor there didn't seem to be any problems with it. But I know how you feel. I started upgrading some parts and some didn't always work out and I couldn't ride. But after I took a break, I was able to get excited again about working on the bike so I could ride. Hope you stay with it.
     
  13. Cr9ck

    Cr9ck New Member

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    Thanks for all of your replys. I should get a tension wrench. I suck at mechanics and I am really discouraged. I didn't touch the thing for a week or so and then the past 2 days I worked on it and I cant figure what the clinking sound is. I'm 95% sure it has to do with the tension on the head studs.

    I spent $170 for the kit. $20 for the sprocket being fitted to my rear hub. $80 for another chain/tires/tubes and help getting it together. $20-$30 on other parts and supplies. So in actuality I spent about $250 for the engine and parts directly related to them.

    I installed it with the guy I live with.

    My bike guy mentioned how most people who buy these things enjoy working on it probably more than riding it relating to a fellow he knows.

    Anyways I don't know what to do about the tinkering sound. I wouldn't be so upset if I had another bike to ride. I recently removed the head completely. I wish I new someone locally. Anyone in Northern Colorado in the Fort Collins, Greeley, Loveland area want to help a brother out?
     
    #13 Cr9ck, Nov 15, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2008
  14. paul

    paul Active Member

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    i may be a little sick in the head but i had fun making the changes to make my motor run right. lots of little things to do but man when you fix them and they work right it feels good. i know every motor i buy in the future will be from a dealer that takes care of the customer. sometimes you just cannot fix some things and having a dealer that will replace the part is really nice to have
     
  15. Creative Engineering

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    Cr9ck,

    It doesn't matter if you lack mechanical skills. You can do it! This is the perfect product to learn some basic mechanical skills. Just be patient and ask a lot of questons that will help you to resolve one problem at a time.

    Just remember: When finished you will have created a motor vehicle capable of enough speed to cause injury. If anything looks a little unsafe it probably is! Once you finish have a mechanic look it over.

    The first one I did was brought in by a customer who couldn't get it to work. Fortunately he had totally cobbled up the throttle, (It wouldn't turn), otherwise he would have had a hot motor with a chain wrapped around his ankle!

    Most of these kits lack instructions.

    I'm sure you will be ale to find somebody in your area that has done one of these installations. If not, maybe you can fnd an auto mechanic or motorcycle mechanic that would be willing to help, especially being that this is a unique thing.

    Once you get it going it will require constant maintenance. You will have to learn to enjoy working on it.

    The clinking sound? shouldn't be from the cylinder head unless:

    The head is not tight...combustion escaping can sound like what you describe.
    The piston is hitting the head...unlikely
    The head gasket is missing, or damaged...same effect as loose head bolts.

    In trying to resolve this problem post anything new that you discover. It will be the best way to get comprehensive help from other members.

    Then we can tackle the next issue, and so on, until you're up and running.(^)
    These bikes are fun, and well worth the effort.

    Jim
     
    #15 Creative Engineering, Nov 15, 2008
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2008
  16. Motormac

    Motormac New Member

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    Jim is right, all of us here would be more than happy to help you out with advice to get you up and running, all you need to do is ask and have a positive approch to this, look at it as a learning experience.
    If you have the time and want to get started I would recommend you take everything off your bike and start over,including the gas tank and sprocket , We can start by replacing your engine mount studs.
    Others here agree?
     
  17. jasonh

    jasonh New Member

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    You spent $20 to get the sprocket fitted to your hub and it's still not aligned properly? I'd ask for my money back :)

    Anyway, I would pull the motor and sprocket off the bike, and start over again. Get some somewhat decent instructions (I think livefastmotors and thatsdax have decent instructions).

    Head down to Ace Hardware and pick up some M6x1.0 allthread since you said you broke some mount studs. Not sure what grade they have, but it's gotta be better than the stock junk. (they carry short lengths, like 4" or so) Not sure, but their service desk may even be able to assist you in getting the busted studs out if you can't do it.

    As for the sprocket being misaligned, have you tried it facing the other way? Most of the sprockets have a bevel to them, and it can make a difference.

    The clinking sound, no way for us to know unless we heard it I think. I would pull the head and slowly rotate the motor via a big screwdriver in the small sprocket on the clutch side and see if it's anything internal. Then put the head back on torqued properly, make sure the plug is torqued as well, and go from there.

    The carb...there's no way a liberal amount of silicone shouldn't do the trick (just don't get it inside the intake.

    I'm in Longmont, but I work 6 days a week (at work right now), and only have 1 car between my wife and I, so I don't have much opportunity to go anywhere.
     
  18. Norman

    Norman LORD VADER Moderator
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    I live in the panhandle of Texas only about 8 hours drive from where you live and I really like to mess with these bikes and I have 4 in the garage right now one 50cc two 70cc and one ?80cc if you really need help I can fix almost anything or screw it up so bad no one can fix itrotfl the 50cc is for sale it has a headlight and a homemade pipe.
    Norman
     
  19. Creative Engineering

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    Agreed, and as you also pointed out in the "Weeee!!! Snap! Awwww!!!!
    " post, all of the fasteners should be replaced with grade 8's and locktite prior to installing the engine. It is dirt cheap insurance!

    Guys please don't lead others astray with stainless...you do not want to use 303 or 304SS material for this application. This is typically what's available. 400 series, heat treated, would work. They are expensve, hard to find, and totally unnecessary.

    I realize many of you are using stainless and you haven't had a failure yet! But a word to the wise, keep a check on your motor mounts. Stainless shares the same mystic as titanium...most peple think that Titanium is lighter than aluminum, and stronger than steel. In fact Titanium sits nearly perfect in the middle of the road. It's lighter than steel, heavier than Aluminum. Stronger than Aluminum, but not as strong as steel.

    I had thought of putting together a complete fastener kit for resale just before SBP announced they were working on it. I will of course stay out of this one as they are already on it, and have time invested.

    You get a lot for the money with these kits...but with just a little more you can really make it viable.

    Jim
     
  20. Weedylot

    Weedylot Angry Old Fart

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    Excellent counsel from the people that have been there and done that.
    I feel almost guilty about not having to "fix" the Whizzer. I have a habit of trying to find the next failure before it occurs. I'll wiggle, pull, torque, twist, turn, shake, rattle and roll everything I can lay my grimy mitts on. This "tinkering" has paid off with many loose bolts and nuts being correctly tightened or torqued by me in the nick of time.
    I hope that you figure it out, (and I think you will) and have fun doing it. I don't have a two stroke running yet, but I do have some crazy idea of putting a spare Puch 50cc engine on one of my steel Schwinn 10 speeds. I'll be winging it and I'll screw up a lot.
    BTW the reason for this long post: I remember having a clinking rattle on my Sting-Ray when I was a kid. I found the source after years (from 1968 until 1972) of noise. Someone had dropped a bolt into the seat tube.:D
     

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