99cc Predator kits?

[fatdaddy]

Could be..................but you're not the judge of that.

Just mount a Hemi in it bro, It'll be allright.
Seriously though, It's your bike, build it your way. you're the one gotta deal with the repercussions if any arise.
fatdaddy.

 

[BarelyAWake]

It's jus' my personal opinion ofc but...

The only reason I can fathom as to why the Predators & the 212s might be appealing to anyone is price alone... IMHO, they're really ill suited for motorizing a bicycle & a kit isn't gonna change that. While seemingly a "great deal" at first - in the long run I think it's a case of false economy.

While a "kit" option may make it easier for the novice to cob something together - it will still result in something that can hardly be called a bicycle in anything other than name, these oversized, overweight four stroke utility engines really don't have any advantages that I can see other than the cheap novelty factor, building it because you can... while that's a valid reason in it's own right, it's the only valid reason I can see.

There's no aesthetic appeal with such an engine, there's little to be done to make it look like anything other than it is, a cheap water pump motor stuffed in a bicycle frame. Granted, looks aren't particularly important - but at a minimum of 11 & 1/2" wide, 27lbs yet still only 3.5HP even though it's twice the legal displacement almost everywhere that motorized bikes are allowed - it doesn't even make much sense from a preformance standpoint & it sure as heck isn't going to be a practical pedaler anymore.

Add in the costs of a mounting kit, clutching mechanism & jackshaft assembly and all the assorted peripherals (fuel tank, sprockets etc) and it starts making less sense financially too, you're starting to get into the kind of money and time it takes to just wake up any of the in-frame two strokes, to get 'em close to the same power & far more reliable yet still retaining a comparatively lightweight machine that's easy to pedal, one that can still be called a motorized bicycle and not a DIY motorcycle with a substandard frame & running gear... even if you choose to go with a 66cc, there's a world of difference between 16cc over and double the legal size - seriously, just peeling stickers off/adding your own isn't going to fool anyone with a monster like the HF.

Even if you don't like the Chinese in-frames due to the lack of quality control & reliability issues - for the amount of time, money & effort the Predator will end up costing you, you could spend the effort it takes to utilize any number of the other engines available, with equal or even greater preformance - even if you choose to go with a 50cc. Not only are there a plethora of lightweight, preformance two strokes that while not "kits" only require the same amount of fabrication & ingenuity as abomineering a utility motor in a bicycle frame (& remember, less weight = better preformance), there's other four strokes of equal & even better quality than the HF - ones that have nearly the same HP, equally wide yet come with their own intrinsic gearbox, a proper transmission of your choice (yet still the same weight as just the HF alone), 3 or 4 speed, auto clutched or full automatic w/o all the fuss and muss of some overpriced aftermarket cob job.

While currently those four strokes may only be available domestically as horizontals, given you'll be getting almost the same HP with 1/2 the displacement even stock (and unlike the HF there's a vast selection of aftermarket preformance parts) I think it's worth the trouble to find or modify a bicycle to fit - it'd cost about the same, even more reliable yet w/far better potential for preformance mods & best yet you could ride it on the street w/o fear of impoundment.


Please don't get me wrong, I'm not one to dismiss the joy of tinkering & experimentation w/cries of "get a motorcycle" - as far as I'm concerned it's your time & money, build what you will & ride it like the devil... it's your life & your responsibility. If you know & accept the potential consequences for what they are, who am I to say what you should or shouldn't do? I've nothing but respect for the DIYer & the ingenuity such requires...

...I just can't see the HF engines as anything other than a misguided attempt to save a few bucks building something, seeing just the 99$ price tag & overlooking near everything else *shrug* I think it's a bit of a shame actually, so much more could be achieved with a little bit more research & determination.

 

[wayne z]

It's jus' my personal opinion ofc but...

The only reason I can fathom as to why the Predators & the 212s might be appealing to anyone is price alone... IMHO, they're really ill suited for motorizing a bicycle & a kit isn't gonna change that. While seemingly a "great deal" at first - in the long run I think it's a case of false economy.

While a "kit" option may make it easier for the novice to cob something together - it will still result in something that can hardly be called a bicycle in anything other than name, these oversized, overweight four stroke utility engines really don't have any advantages that I can see other than the cheap novelty factor, building it because you can... while that's a valid reason in it's own right, it's the only valid reason I can see.

There's no aesthetic appeal with such an engine, there's little to be done to make it look like anything other than it is, a cheap water pump motor stuffed in a bicycle frame. Granted, looks aren't particularly important - but at a minimum of 11 & 1/2" wide, 27lbs yet still only 3.5HP even though it's twice the legal displacement almost everywhere that motorized bikes are allowed - it doesn't even make much sense from a preformance standpoint & it sure as heck isn't going to be a practical pedaler anymore.

Add in the costs of a mounting kit, clutching mechanism & jackshaft assembly and all the assorted peripherals (fuel tank, sprockets etc) and it starts making less sense financially too, you're starting to get into the kind of money and time it takes to just wake up any of the in-frame two strokes, to get 'em close to the same power & far more reliable yet still retaining a comparatively lightweight machine that's easy to pedal, one that can still be called a motorized bicycle and not a DIY motorcycle with a substandard frame & running gear... even if you choose to go with a 66cc, there's a world of difference between 16cc over and double the legal size - seriously, just peeling stickers off/adding your own isn't going to fool anyone with a monster like the HF.

Even if you don't like the Chinese in-frames due to the lack of quality control & reliability issues - for the amount of time, money & effort the Predator will end up costing you, you could spend the effort it takes to utilize any number of the other engines available, with equal or even greater preformance - even if you choose to go with a 50cc. Not only are there a plethora of lightweight, preformance two strokes that while not "kits" only require the same amount of fabrication & ingenuity as abomineering a utility motor in a bicycle frame (& remember, less weight = better preformance), there's other four strokes of equal & even better quality than the HF - ones that have nearly the same HP, equally wide yet come with their own intrinsic gearbox, a proper transmission of your choice (yet still the same weight as just the HF alone), 3 or 4 speed, auto clutched or full automatic w/o all the fuss and muss of some overpriced aftermarket cob job.

While currently those four strokes may only be available domestically as horizontals, given you'll be getting almost the same HP with 1/2 the displacement even stock (and unlike the HF there's a vast selection of aftermarket preformance parts) I think it's worth the trouble to find or modify a bicycle to fit - it'd cost about the same, even more reliable yet w/far better potential for preformance mods & best yet you could ride it on the street w/o fear of impoundment.


Please don't get me wrong, I'm not one to dismiss the joy of tinkering & experimentation w/cries of "get a motorcycle" - as far as I'm concerned it's your time & money, build what you will & ride it like the devil... it's your life & your responsibility. If you know & accept the potential consequences for what they are, who am I to say what you should or shouldn't do? I've nothing but respect for the DIYer & the ingenuity such requires...

...I just can't see the HF engines as anything other than a misguided attempt to save a few bucks building something, seeing just the 99$ price tag & overlooking near everything else *shrug* I think it's a bit of a shame actually, so much more could be achieved with a little bit more research & determination.

The 99cc only weighs 19 lbs minus the tank and muffler.
The 99cc is just as illeagl as a 66cc HT.
I have two 99cc builds, and I will never go back to a Chinagirl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_5JZVt2rFw

 

[wayne z]

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[Ibedayank]

BarelyAwake

Despite what you may think some of us just might have done the research before choosing a 99cc predator. Your trike uses this motor correct?

QUOTE..
I've purchased the Lifan 50cc 3speed auto-clutch w/electric start from TBolt for the powerplant (still waitin' on the blasted brown truck lol), for some pretty obvious reasons I wanted it w/reverse - but was unable to find it for domestic sale *sigh* ...is ok tho, it'd be pretty easy to swap engines if I found one.

Engine Model Lifan 1P39FMB
Type 4-Stroke single-cylinder OHC air cooled
Compression ratio: 9.0:1
Displacement: 49.5cc
Max. HP: 2.7 HP @ 7,500 RPM
Max. Torque: 2.0 ftlbs @ 5,500 RPM
Carburetor: 19mm Walbro
LIFAN 50cc Electric - Engines - Lifan 50-150 Engines - LIFAN 50cc Electric - TBolt USA, LLC
http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=19630

QUOTE

(34) “Motorized bicycle” means a vehicle with two (2) or three (3) wheels, an automatic transmission, and a motor with a cylinder capacity not exceeding fifty cubic centimeters (50cc) which produces no more than two (2) brake horsepower and is capable of propelling the vehicle at a maximum design speed of no more than thirty miles per hour (30 mph) on level ground. The operator of a motorized bicycle must be in possession of a valid operator's or chauffeur's license, and shall be subject to all applicable and practical rules of the road. A motorized bicycle may not be operated on a highway of the interstate and defense highway system, any similar limited access multilane divided highway, or upon sidewalks;

http://tntrafficsafety.org/htm/Laws/def101.htm
Now if you would explain to me what makes your motor any more legal then a 99cc predator with a CVT?
With a 99cc predator and a comet cvt the chances of finding a replacement motor that will bolt in place in any small engine shop is much better then your motor should it fail.
Replacement parts are available for A cvt/jackshaft setup in almost any farm supply type store Northern Tool or any place that sells Gokart parts. Can you say the same for your driveline setup?

 

[BarelyAWake]

Now if you would explain to me what makes your motor any more legal then a 99cc predator with a CVT?
With a 99cc predator and a comet cvt the chances of finding a replacement motor that will bolt in place in any small engine shop is much better then your motor should it fail.
Replacement parts are available for A cvt/jackshaft setup in almost any farm supply type store Northern Tool or any place that sells Gokart parts. Can you say the same for your driveline setup?

Well, first I'd like to point out that I mentioned this was all just my personal opinion, but to answer your questions...

The 49cc Lifan is available as a full automatic, while mine happens to be a 3sp autoclutch. I didn't use it as an example for a reason as some states forbid having multiple gears of any sort, some say you cant have a manual, some like Maine (my home state) makes no mention regarding the legality of manual/automatic drives. Yet most do mention displacement.

The Lifan in particular is a direct clone of the Honda CRF 50, a very common motor - which ofc means all the parts are fully interchangable and readily available, as well as a vast almost dizzying selection of aftermarket parts. Honda subcontracts Lifan for some of their own parts BTW, so there's no problem with compatibility or questions regarding quality.

So the driveline, the entire engine is thoroughly covered regarding service, repair and modification documentation as well as commonplace parts availability

 

[happyvalley]

Of the various car, hot rod and motorcycle forums I visit, the motored bike forums are the only one where I see vehicles discussed in terms of something being okay because it's just as illegal as something else, lol. Really funny except when all MABs are made illegal because a few can't follow the law. Even the go-cart guys don't have this problem because they know they're never gonna being riding on the street.

 

[Bikeguy Joe]

and i will not dump another dime into chinese ht junk.

No, just other Chinese junk, right?

Where does the predator come from edmond? What design it copies?

You admit you don't know what you are talking about. " I dont know what any of theses clone engines are made of"

Then why are they bad? What are they a "clone" of?

 

[wayne z]

I think E D was referring to the HT chinagirls. They are absolutly junk compared to the Predator.
He don't know what the Preddys are made of, cept for the cast iron bore.
All he needs to know is that they work and everybody that has one on a bike loves it.

 

[fatdaddy]

Of the various car, hot rod and motorcycle forums I visit, the motored bike forums are the only one where I see vehicles discussed in terms of something being okay because it's just as illegal as something else, lol. Really funny except when all MABs are made illegal because a few can't follow the law. Even the go-cart guys don't have this problem because they know they're never gonna being riding on the street.

A FEW guy's on illegal bikes are probably not gonna be enough to get any law changed. Capital Hill won't even hear about it. If a LOT, and I mean almost everybody built an illegal bike, then we might get new laws. The few that do break the law are just gonna get tickets, get their bikes confiscated, or both. If you're on the hot rod forums then you know a few people have illegal cars on the street. Do you think their gonna outlaw cars because of a few illegal hot rods? The same with anything, nobody does anything untill the problem becomes huge and is brought to their attention.
I ride a 66cc HT, and for me anyway, you can put a big screw in the law. I can't recommend this for anyone else, but I ride safe and have ALL the safety equipment on my bike. It is registered and I ride the speed limit although my bike is capable of more. And I DON'T get hassled by the cops. I've always said that when I get my first ticket for an oversized engine I'll start using the 49cc. Untill then I'm enjoying the better take off power and slightly higher top end. BUT, It is illegal, so install an oversized engine at your own risk.

fatdaddy.

 

[wayne z]

Of the various car, hot rod and motorcycle forums I visit, the motored bike forums are the only one where I see vehicles discussed in terms of something being okay because it's just as illegal as something else, lol. Really funny except when all MABs are made illegal because a few can't follow the law. Even the go-cart guys don't have this problem because they know they're never gonna being riding on the street.

LOL you've never been to an ultralight plane forum. They're nearly always illeagl because it's very hard to build something strong that safely flies and had brakes ect, with a 254 lb limit.
I knew one guy who took advantage of the 26 lb. ballistic parachute allowance, by using an empty 'chute cannister.

Heck, it's only natural that we should bend the rules a lil if we can . Look what our own govt ppl get away with. 2 wrongs don't make a right though.
Yeah, Im bending the rules, and If I get popped for it, I'll hafta deal with it.

How about them Wizzers? They've always been considered legal by law enforcement in my region, and they're 138cc

The way local government works, I don't think anyone will be clamoring for laws to outlaw them. They can make a lotta revenue off the ones that don't use enough discression and call attention to themselvs, when they bust em for exceeding the regulations.

It depends a lot on how and where you ride as to how far you can press the rules.
When I'm in the city, I drive a lot slower, follow traffic rules closely, and try to be extra courteous and be as quiet with the engine as possible. I see a lotta cops, and they pay very little attention to me.
When I'm at home in the boonies, and no one's around, I drive with lots of exuberance LOL and xtra safety gear :~)

 

[Bikeguy Joe]

Now I have to take exception!!!!

You can build a safe good flying ultralight that weighs in at under 254lbs. Brakes? For what?
You have to fly 'em like an ultralight....kinda like these motorized bikes ultralight=motorized bike as motorcycle=general aviation planes.

Ultralighters bending the rules???? Uh, yeah, just like the motor bike guys.

Quietly....

 

[happyvalley]

Bit a reach there as an analogy boys, apples and oranges in fact. Ultralights are Fed while MABs are subject to being looked at and policed by every LEA on the road from state, county to local.

 

[wayne z]

Bit a reach there as an analogy boys, apples and oranges in fact. Ultralights are Fed while MABs are subject to being looked at and policed by every LEA on the road from state, county to local.

U right about that. When the FAA slaps yer hand it usualy cost a couple thousand bucks the first time.

I didn't mean to analogise, I was just pointing out that people of all intrests tend to strech the rules. :~)

 

[Bikeguy Joe]

Yes, the feds charge you 10,000 per occurance....but they don't have the time or money to police anything...