384 mpg out of a scooter

RicksRides

RicksRides

Member
Well Ive been working on another fuelmizer project. I took a 150cc scooter and made a vapor carb? out of a mason jar.
I got the idea from a few videos I found on youtube. All the ones I saw had issue with proper fuel/air ratios. As did mine for a couple of attempts.
My first attempt got great milage a huge increase in power and rpms, it also burnt a hole thru the piston in 19 miles. So I installed a new piston a set of rings and honed the cylinder.
For my 2nd attempt I restricted the airflow using a smaller intake tube to richen the mix I made it 28.8 miles and yup another hole in another piston as well as tearing up the cylinder wall. so a new piston, jug and rings got installed.
So for my 3rd try I wised up and got a little air/fuel mixture guage that goes between the plug and jug. Restricted the air flow even more,raised the fuel level in the jar. but that was still not enough. Then I tried 87 octane fuel instead of 93 as well as a colder plug. This looked good after a 100 miles or so we took the head off and there was some damage to the piston. So I was moving in the right direction. I replaced the piston but used the rings over again.
Attempt #4 I decided to use E-85 and raise the fuel level. I retarded the ignition at this point as well. After 100 miles I took the head back off, there was no damage to the piston.
This leaves the only 2 problems 1st) that the air/fuel mixture is only right @ a certain level in the jar. only 3 oz. of safe usable fuel level out of a 16 oz. jar. 2nd) Refilling the jar every 9 miles so I don't burn a hole in the piston.
What Im looking to build is a duel cavity carb, one for the fuel to be turned to vapor and one that'll have a float, needle and seat for a constant metered flow and level of fuel. The problem comes from the need for the 2 cavities to be connected (to maintain constant level) both cavities want to vaporize. This keeps my float needle in an open position continuing to fill both cavities.

Anyone got any educated ideas?????
Thanks, Rick
 

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I can't really understand what you're talking about from your description. How does the throttle work? Is there still a regular carb?
 
I used to spend a lot of time looking into gas saving mods for fun reading, and most including GEET seem to have major problems with fuel control. I think if you're really serious about mileage you should consider making a hybrid or possibly using a hydrogen electrolyzer, coupled with water mist injection, and electronic fuel injection. The hydrogen *might* help burn unburnt gas and improve efficiency, this topic is debatable. On Youtube theres a fellow by the avatar ZerFossilFuel who did a test using a lawn mower idling to see if a "HHO" generator helps with the apropriate leaning of the carburetor, and the HHO test made the engine idle longer for a given amount of gas, unfortunately, under load I don't think the lean and clean mode of operation is very good for any small engine that's not designed for it.

There's not much leeway leaner than 14.7:1 before it starts pre-iginition, then under higher loads knock, or ping, which creates immense heat and pressure which are what caused your motor to melt down twice. If you want to run leaner, then you have to do things to prevent knock such as retarding the timing, and water injection to cool the charge and provide thermal mass. The unfortunate fact is that you'll probably only be able to lean an engine out maybe 15-20% more than intended by stock settings, and the mileage modifications make the performance suffer, so you'll use more throttle, which means the gains are negated.
 
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biknut said:
I can't really understand what you're talking about from your description. How does the throttle work? Is there still a regular carb?
Click to expand...

Oops, forgot to explain that. the thottle is simply a butterfly I installed in the intake manifold, a throttle cable is attached at one end of the lever and a spring on the other end for return pressure. the engines vacum draws the fuel in
 
16v4nrbrgr,

The performance as it sits now is good with no visible damage to the piston. No pre ignition either. I've retarded the timing already. The hand throttle position seams to be the same as it was before, however it wasnt a detail I paid perticular attention to.

The part Im having trouble with is the dual cavity carb body
Thanks, Rick
 
16v4nrbrgr said:
I used to spend a lot of time looking into gas saving mods for fun reading, and most including GEET seem to have major problems with fuel control. I think if you're really serious about mileage you should consider making a hybrid or possibly using a hydrogen electrolyzer, coupled with water mist injection, and electronic fuel injection. The hydrogen *might* help burn unburnt gas and improve efficiency, this topic is debatable. On Youtube theres a fellow by the avatar ZerFossilFuel who did a test using a lawn mower idling to see if a "HHO" generator helps with the apropriate leaning of the carburetor, and the HHO test made the engine idle longer for a given amount of gas, unfortunately, under load I don't think the lean and clean mode of operation is very good for any small engine that's not designed for it.

There's not much leeway leaner than 14.7:1 before it starts pre-iginition, then under higher loads knock, or ping, which creates immense heat and pressure which are what caused your motor to melt down twice. If you want to run leaner, then you have to do things to prevent knock such as retarding the timing, and water injection to cool the charge and provide thermal mass. The unfortunate fact is that you'll probably only be able to lean an engine out maybe 15-20% more than intended by stock settings, and the mileage modifications make the performance suffer, so you'll use more throttle, which means the gains are negated.
Click to expand...

RicksRides said:
16v4nrbrgr,

The performance as it sits now is good with no visible damage to the piston. No pre ignition either. I've retarded the timing already. The hand throttle position seams to be the same as it was before, however it wasnt a detail I paid perticular attention to.

The part Im having trouble with is the dual cavity carb body
Thanks, Rick
Click to expand...

I think it might be possible to improve efficiency, but at the same time keep the fuel ratio correct. I'm guessing there's room for improvement in atomization from a typical carb.

Seems to me that's what Rick's angle is here.
 
You need a Kugelfischer mechanical fuel injection pump or electronic direct injection to reap the benefits of both performance and efficiency. Atomization in carbs is pretty poor compared to those, even to regular EFI. Unfortunately because of Stoichiometry it's a path to diminishing efficiency gains. In reality, huge efficiency can be achieved if you're willing to sacrifice performance, which leaning and retarding ignition does. You could power a bicycle with a 25cc model airplane engine and gear it right and get 400 mpg, but the performance won't be there.

Just want to save you some time, and money.
 
16v4nrbrgr,
I re installed the stock carb assembly and ran the scooter then put my homemade one back on and ran it there was a 2 sec difference between the 2 from 0-35
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUNoQLzj00E

You'll dig this video Rick, a similar technology was developed a long time ago and was bought by a major automotive component manufacturer and locked up in their circular file. You can draw your own conclusions why, lol.

It's quite possible the atomization of that carb is just so bad that you're only using about half of the fuel in the engine and the rest was burning in the pipe. Pretty crazy, if I had a scooter that did that mileage that I could rely on for 3000 miles, I could road trip home to the east coast for ~$50.
 
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There are a # of different ideas/inventions bought up by oil or atoumotive companies that never make it past the prototype. think about it what oil company wants 300+mpg vehichles.
If you contact any of the auto manufactures R&D departments they will tell you they are aware of all the technology! Yet it doesnt appear in any of their product line except in miniscule amounts, selling it to you a small slice at a time so you get a new model in a few years thats a little better then the last
 
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Oh boy...
...I gonna be follow'in this thread till it's dead,

Some suggestions of mine, Google these and look at all the tests and info not just the websites:

"Smokey Yunick, hot vapor engine"
"Swain Tech"
"Micro Blue Racing"
"Craig Vetter"

Thank me when ya hit over 400MPG
 
I knew two guys personally that ran an old 58 chevy truck with a 235 cid in line six cylinder for over 45 miles on just under 1 quart of gasoline, while they were working on the project they heard of another fella that was try to put a similar product as theirs on the market in California and ended up a missing persons, the people I knew that were working on this pulled all the stuff off the truck put it all away and never did anything with it afterwards.

Many great inventions are locked away on a shelf in a dark room because it would take to much money out of someone pocket, those things will not be allowed in this "free" country we live in.
 
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