Phantom 85... From parts...
- Thread starter Mossy
- Start date
I haven't worked with the larger bore engines yet, the 49mm iron sleeve is the only one I've dealt with. Is the stud spacing the same as a 66-69cc?
There the same as the YD 100 50mm stud spacing the same as phantom the 110 is 60mm stud spacing and 12mm rod... The YD uses the thick seal on both sides the YD has the thickest rod also... Looking into a 380 piston that's 10mm pin and a little taller in a 460 jug might be something... The 460/380 piston ring pins are farther apart so it fixes the rings catching... And there's an oversized 460 that's 54mm... So I'm thinking the phantom on a YD case with 110 crank with saw wrist pin bearing all around... And one phantom base gasket to .95- 1.0 (saw) squish... Can take a little off the bottom of the cylinder if needed...
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For less money than a factory fantasy just get the parts together and the jug comes with a piston you can use to smelt down for another project... The ms460 piston doesn't have a window so you can make one for the reed valve... But LAHover run it piston port without the window... Taking .010 thousands off the diameter of the piston above the top ring will help with the soft sieze and run 24:1 premix and pig rich on the fuel should help also is my plan... 16:1 break-in and it's recommended in the booklet my 100 came with... So forget the 40:1 full synthetic BS and use Maxima Castor 927 like the 'good ol days
385 units available... After they sold 300+ from the first batch... 3 months they've been selling the replacements... There all the same but you can still get the old style ring catchers with the complete engine... To get the upgrade you have to buy the replacement... A YD 100 bottom and 10mm 380 or get the 110 12mm crank... Saving your money or follow bicycle engines like a lost puppy... Just another attempt to mislead the community with information to help sales so bicycle engines can clear the inventory... A great service to the vendor at the expense of the members... That's the position of the moderator after his praised zeda 40 failed which he claimed out of the box better performance than a ported and built engine with a backwards piston that failed... No other vendors could have so many failures and still be supported... California motor bikes was removed as a vendor for slow replys to e mails... Great product... But competition so he banned them... My question is how many people got taken for because this clown uses his moderator position... For a free motor? Can't blame bicycle engines if someone is offering...
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Boy goes fast sells a case reed 110 with 12mm zmn 100 rod that's a lemon 52mm cylinder... but with a phantom cylinder would be a screamer just have to wait for the V3 cylinder if bicycle engines decide to offer it... Jumbo 110 on ebay...
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I have a 49mm bore iron sleeve I converted last year, mine doesn’t impress me with torque. I didn’t do port enlargement I only trimmed the sleeve to match the port, it runs great at high rpm but has no butt. I’ve started having hip problems so pedaling a lot is a problem, If I go far from home I ride one of my bikes that have good bottom end.
I have a lifetime of parts literally... The crappiest stuff that's readily available I have I'll use first and use the hard to find vintage Stuff last... It's a lot to deal with..
What I've heard about the 49mm is people are leaving the sleeve alone and filling in the ports to match the sleeves but I don't know myself... One guy was useing no base gasket and taking some of the top of the jug ... I'm curious about the port timing and if it's a 40 or 39.5 stroke... Depends where you got it I have a couple of them that are samger from AliExpress to the CDH power are a little different ... I'll need things I won't know until I get building but the bulk of it here... I still have to finish my place and get tools and a work shop put together... Enough for 6 builds with 3 engines each as spares... Organizing and getting it all packed into storage is my next move.... I just got back from Ganjafornia and taking a break from it... My thoughts are if I get a bunch of stuff all at once I'll have a better chance that the engines are from the same batch... So I'm no having to deal with 3 different 100's and 6 different pk 80's or whatever it is will be consistent... And if I mess up a jug I'll have another one handy... I have one motor that's damaged shipping a zeda triple 40 so that probably be the first...
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No phantom no problem... These are expensive... But if I'm going to gamble on a cylinder the moped junk has been around and proven... The pFlantom... 
The gilla is going to want a $300 pipe and the carb... Unobtainium NOS head but they're around... The Air cooled cylinders I think are the way to go... 47mm so it's not so over square... The fan cooled cylinders will have more power and liquid even more for those reasons... So it's adding liquid or free air head... but on the cylinder there made for a fan blowing on them and at a certain amount... So you can widen the ring gap take a few thousandths off the piston above the top ring. Then drill 3 .25 mm holes inline with the ring pin spaced out evenly... Your going to need the highest quality top end bearing and weisco or malosi pin same thing on the bottom end but a crowded bearing on a wieisco or (there's a wrist pin for something 16mm for an automotive application you have to cut down...) grugden pin put together with shims... Just like the bottom ends on the bikes the cylinder is made for...
I thought about trimming the cooling fins off of a 110 lemon cylinder with a Dremel cut off tool and muggy weld with fine low temp muggy
sticks with pookie pipe lighter with a wet rag in the cylinder and fit the phantom with free air cylinder fins... 52mm to 52mm just a lot of work...
I thought about wrapping up the cylinder with copper pipe and plumbing it in with a transmission cooler for a convection system... Like my old Johny popper bulldozer had... Cutting the top off it and useing a CNC head for a LD 100 on the saw cylinder or jog 90... It adds up quickly... $2000 in cylinders to try that somebody at some point used and there's a thread with a twist about it...
What I'm doing after my 10 year vacation from motorbikes is get caught up on the stuff that I would have been doing if I wasn't building a 60's to 70 Mopar... A 4 door but something Richard Petty wouldn't want to get out of if he seen it but with a 315 LA with 375hp @12k ... 70 k member with caltrack in the back... Old school cone Shure grip with 294 gears so it liked 3 gear on the highway but 1/2 would sling you around an auto cross... She really shined going up I95 at about 4 grand... 120 needle just buried... Just a little bounce... Then lay about a quarter mile of rubber till it hit about 180 then is squirly like a shopping cart and is got just enough gas to coast to the next gas station... I could burn 10 gallons going from a stop and getting to 100 not even pushing it... It held 45 gallons between 4 fuel tanks.. one in the front and back 2 along the rockers.. each had there own pump and return... The fuel line held another 8 or so... I could switch between front or back or rockers with a solinoid on each sway bar end link... Lot of repop hemi suspension hardware...
Then it was disassembled and boxed up into a connex and shipped to the customer... I drove it mabe 10 times... Sadly I lost a lot of pictures and paperwork for it ... For B bodies only.. Sleepar was my handle 2014- 2016... Till I got banned
The gilla is going to want a $300 pipe and the carb... Unobtainium NOS head but they're around... The Air cooled cylinders I think are the way to go... 47mm so it's not so over square... The fan cooled cylinders will have more power and liquid even more for those reasons... So it's adding liquid or free air head... but on the cylinder there made for a fan blowing on them and at a certain amount... So you can widen the ring gap take a few thousandths off the piston above the top ring. Then drill 3 .25 mm holes inline with the ring pin spaced out evenly... Your going to need the highest quality top end bearing and weisco or malosi pin same thing on the bottom end but a crowded bearing on a wieisco or (there's a wrist pin for something 16mm for an automotive application you have to cut down...) grugden pin put together with shims... Just like the bottom ends on the bikes the cylinder is made for...
I thought about trimming the cooling fins off of a 110 lemon cylinder with a Dremel cut off tool and muggy weld with fine low temp muggy
sticks with pookie pipe lighter with a wet rag in the cylinder and fit the phantom with free air cylinder fins... 52mm to 52mm just a lot of work...I thought about wrapping up the cylinder with copper pipe and plumbing it in with a transmission cooler for a convection system... Like my old Johny popper bulldozer had... Cutting the top off it and useing a CNC head for a LD 100 on the saw cylinder or jog 90... It adds up quickly... $2000 in cylinders to try that somebody at some point used and there's a thread with a twist about it...
What I'm doing after my 10 year vacation from motorbikes is get caught up on the stuff that I would have been doing if I wasn't building a 60's to 70 Mopar... A 4 door but something Richard Petty wouldn't want to get out of if he seen it but with a 315 LA with 375hp @12k ... 70 k member with caltrack in the back... Old school cone Shure grip with 294 gears so it liked 3 gear on the highway but 1/2 would sling you around an auto cross... She really shined going up I95 at about 4 grand... 120 needle just buried... Just a little bounce... Then lay about a quarter mile of rubber till it hit about 180 then is squirly like a shopping cart and is got just enough gas to coast to the next gas station... I could burn 10 gallons going from a stop and getting to 100 not even pushing it... It held 45 gallons between 4 fuel tanks.. one in the front and back 2 along the rockers.. each had there own pump and return... The fuel line held another 8 or so... I could switch between front or back or rockers with a solinoid on each sway bar end link... Lot of repop hemi suspension hardware...
Then it was disassembled and boxed up into a connex and shipped to the customer... I drove it mabe 10 times... Sadly I lost a lot of pictures and paperwork for it ... For B bodies only.. Sleepar was my handle 2014- 2016... Till I got banned
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The free air heads for the gilla cylinder... Or 66/80 cc bolt pattern... The bottom one is the gila custom cut 74cc hihi head from treatland... Is going to want 100 octane 24:1 after break in... 32:1 with the HT cylinder because it doesn't mai as much power... More oil the more power the more cooling... The bigger jet because of les fuel to burn from less fuel... 14:1 less the oil percentage... Bigger carb for more air to maintain the ratio... Don't confuse the heavy smoke for rich and lean it out by smoke... Just have some extra plugs... That are cold B8-9... The the engine will have a chance of lasting longer... None of them will like long highway runs... Short spurts so it can cool and not build up heat... Like the pit bike or racer the parts are made and intended for... with pipes and reeds...
So it's not for everyone... If you want to respect the neighborhood don't go to wild but you'll kill a wild motor running it like a factory lug... And the louder the better... That loud is pulling fuel through... You want the fire in the pipe the piston is just in the way once the pipe starting pulling... The power band is when the pipe exceeds the mechanical ability of the piston that got it there... The ignition doesn't do much but light the piston back up when you drop RPM out of the power band and if you hold it right at the point we're it wants to but can't quite is where it's going to be happiest... Then you can burp it quick and off with out gaining or loosing much speed... Like in cornering... But to people who don't know why your doing it will think you're being a punk and way too old and ready for the nut house
So it's not for everyone... If you want to respect the neighborhood don't go to wild but you'll kill a wild motor running it like a factory lug... And the louder the better... That loud is pulling fuel through... You want the fire in the pipe the piston is just in the way once the pipe starting pulling... The power band is when the pipe exceeds the mechanical ability of the piston that got it there... The ignition doesn't do much but light the piston back up when you drop RPM out of the power band and if you hold it right at the point we're it wants to but can't quite is where it's going to be happiest... Then you can burp it quick and off with out gaining or loosing much speed... Like in cornering... But to people who don't know why your doing it will think you're being a punk and way too old and ready for the nut house
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The 49mm cylinders I bought had very rough cut ports, all I did was trim and taper the ports, I didn't widen or raise them. I have another 49mm top end, I may at some point try it without trimming the ports.
Im curious about the transfers... They use them to press in the liner there going to want some JB weld to help them flow or maybe a 3rd transfer... The port timing might be something and the sleeves might be set hi or off some how... But if it's got no bottom end the exaust might be to high.. I'm just guessing... I'm going to look at each cylinder and bottom end I have and carefully degree each one... I also suspect that a 39.5 stroke could be raising the exaust timing... Mabe taking some off the bottom of the cylinder to get it down... A 46t sprocket might help also... If it's a reed engine the reeds could be too stiff and not opening enough or the carb could be too big not picking up enough fuel until it gets into the upper rpms... Just throwing out ideas that can cause sluggish bottom and top end only power... If it's piston port there could be some cross talking not allowing the bottom... Degree wheel and see where it's at... Something should jump out as being off... If the roof of the transfer is dimpled that's going to cause some turbulence and kill bottom end power until it over comes it... Are they the split transfer or open style could be restricted... It would be a pain to remove the wall and open it up behind the liner and behind the liner where it transitions from the cylinder could be causing some interference... When they put the sleeves in they lost the thickness of the sleeves in the transfer volume... That by itself is going to change the volume and velocity of the charge... Causing the engine to stumble until it can over come it with piston speed... Post some pictures and we can dig deep into this and figure it out... Then my job is going to be so much easier when I get into it learning from your experience
The more I think about it... The case and cylinder at the transfer inlet probably has some mismatched thing going on also keeping it from picking up fuel making it have a sharp turn to get up in there... Some JB in the case to smooth that out and opening it up port matching the case and cylinder... Same thing for below the intake port could use some work... My guess is once the bottom end comes back your going to get a gain in both top and bottom from the restrictions removed all over the cylinder... How much of the sleeve covers the transfer inlet? How far does bottom of the piston skirt go into the cylinder? There's some room to open that up with the transfers angled to shoot the charge with more of it without the wall to the back of the cylinder to actually give it want it needs... In theroy a bigger piston needs bigger transfers... Boring out a cylinder pressing in a liner makes it smaller... These 80 year old technology Happy Time motors leave a lot on the table to work around to get them to run like a modern 1980's 2 stroke does
The floor of the transfer hard 90° angle in the case could be another issue... Every little bit helps... Studding moped cases and cylinder dirt bike also R/C engines will give you an idea of what is needed for any 2 stroke to flow and run... When I look at the china motor from a distance I see something good and bad with every combination across the board some better or worse than others... But they all have potential... Reading the forums I see a trend or I get a feeling... Some things they all can benefit from some just need a little some I think it would be easier to melt down and turn into beer cans for the trouble... Smolik has done some great work getting the engine to run and a great place to steal ideas from... Him and his buddy RDM have stolen from everywhere and everyone just don't do business with the clowns unless you're in the Pittsburgh area and don't mind going there to kick in a door to get your parts
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Bottom end power... Got me thinking... Why not throw an exaust valve on it? There isn't and seats or angles to grind or valve lapping compound... But a bunch of springs and probably a Dio reed adapter with 1/2 a hole drilled across the flange to mate everything up together...
*** KTM 65/85/105 exaust.. KX 65 on the intake side... With an index of boysen reeds to choose from... And the clutch to hold it... I've got the electrical covered... I want to use an end mill to set 4 tiny 4mm rare earth magnets into the HT magnet.. 2 on each side on the ends that pick up the magneto with 18ga wires to the CDI... Drop of lock tight as insurance
in the next episode
*** KTM 65/85/105 exaust.. KX 65 on the intake side... With an index of boysen reeds to choose from... And the clutch to hold it... I've got the electrical covered... I want to use an end mill to set 4 tiny 4mm rare earth magnets into the HT magnet.. 2 on each side on the ends that pick up the magneto with 18ga wires to the CDI... Drop of lock tight as insurance
in the next episodeAttachments
Taking the port map from the phantom might be something then transfer it to the steel sleeve 110 jug... Then hi temp JB weld the flanges a surface to mate to... Muggy weld some cooling fins on the 110 head before you flatten the surface incase you warp it a little... Probably warp it flat