Transfer Port Modification- Pictures and results here.

GoldenMotor.com

Egor

New Member
Jan 30, 2008
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Hurricane Utah
Jim - That is so cool, I love that kind of stuff. In the end does that program tell you how much to remove and where? In your engine block are you going to be able to use larger bearings? I have always thought that the gears were not in mesh, it looks to me like they are too far away from each other! One thing that would look cool would be if you would make up a cover for the left side of the engine that would make it look larger, a one piece cover with better shape! Do you think you will be doing a head? I would like to find a head for one of the racers we used to run I think it would fit the happy engine. I will look for a pic. Have fun, Dave
 

POPS

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Sep 8, 2008
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Vancouver Island BC .Canada
COMMON GUYS LIKE "POPS" GET YOUR ORDER IN !! i did and am canadian and live in hicksville(Penticton) i want to surprise the Harleys at their show and shine!!---the power will be worth every cent.
Robin
I would love too but the timeing is just wrong for me. In the last 2 months I've bought 3, 500 watt Cyclone electric kits,2, 69cc Happy times,2 pull start kits,2 centrafugal clutch kits,2 NuVinci kits,1 HD Wizzer wheel,11 gauge spokes and 1 bike. I'd love to buy a couple but you got to see where I'm coming from. Now if I could sell my 74 VW Bug in time I would pony up but I'm shure Jim will have hit 20 before that happens so looks like next time around for me. I wasn't saying that 500 was too much for the motor. I meant it was out of my reach right now. My apologies Jim if you thought I was saying they were over priced. POPS...(Rick):-|| Edit: O ya and 2 NOS three speed Archer hubs.
 
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Sep 20, 2008
1,668
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Clearwater, FL
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Jim - That is so cool, I love that kind of stuff. In the end does that program tell you how much to remove and where? In your engine block are you going to be able to use larger bearings? I have always thought that the gears were not in mesh, it looks to me like they are too far away from each other! One thing that would look cool would be if you would make up a cover for the left side of the engine that would make it look larger, a one piece cover with better shape! Do you think you will be doing a head? I would like to find a head for one of the racers we used to run I think it would fit the happy engine. I will look for a pic. Have fun, Dave
Dave,

The software programs I use are like a virtual machine shop. Everything is done 3 dimensionally. The computer not only tells me how much to remove, but also where to remove it. It's not automatic though: it's a tedious, time consuming process.

Here's how it works. I measure the parts and create the crank assembly with piston in 3D in the computer. The computer software has a dynamic mass properties function where you can actually specify the density of each component. Aluminum has a density of .098lb per cubic inch. steel is .29lb per cubic inch and so on.

After the 3D model of a component is in the computer and assigned a mass properties value, I weigh the component on a digital Gram scale to verify that the mass the computer is using for calculations is correct.

The first animation is of the crank assembly as it came from the factory. The assembly was rotated in 15 degree increments so that I could see the out-of-balance condition.

As shown in the second animation, there is a crescent shaped cut-out at the connecting rod end. The shape and location, on the diameter, of this cut-out was changed many times. Each time the mass properties calculations were figured for each 15 degree increment.

I looked at the cases for quite awhile trying to determine if there was a practical way to save them. Slightly larger bearings would of course allow me to remachine the cases, and set the gears up precisely. There just isn't enough metal in the original castings to allow me to do everything I want to do. Sometimes it's less trouble to just start from new. The added benefit, obviously, will be that the cases will now be fully machined from a quality material.

As you pointed out; the spacing between the crank and counter shafts is critical. All gearsets have an ideal lash based upon the diametral pitch of the gears. You're right the bearing bores are typically not machined at the correct spacing and the gears have too much lash. This not only creates excessive noise, it guarantees premature failure.

As far as the cover goes, it was my thought as well. I was then reminded of aftermarket items such as pull starters and shifter kits. There are other things I would like to change to clean things up a bit but then those who have invested in accessories would not be able to use them.

Jim
 
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Sep 20, 2008
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Robin
I would love too but the timeing is just wrong for me. In the last 2 months I've bought 3, 500 watt Cyclone electric kits,2, 69cc Happy times,2 pull start kits,2 centrafugal clutch kits,2 NuVinci kits,1 HD Wizzer wheel,11 gauge spokes and 1 bike. I'd love to buy a couple but you got to see where I'm coming from. Now if I could sell my 74 VW Bug in time I would pony up but I'm shure Jim will have hit 20 before that happens so looks like next time around for me. I wasn't saying that 500 was too much for the motor. I meant it was out of my reach right now. My apologies Jim if you thought I was saying they were over priced. POPS...(Rick):-|| Edit: O ya and 2 NOS three speed Archer hubs.
No apology needed Rick. The exchange rate really hurts you guys up in the great white north. I'm sure I'll be doing another batch of these sometime this summer.

Jim
 

Huffathump

New Member
Feb 24, 2009
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indiana
good morning all! I have been watching this thread for several weeks- and I have to hand out some serious kudos to Brain and CE both for their work in taking this from level of the shadetree mechanic to exotic land of digital design and virtual perfection. I cant wait to find out how both projects turn out. Maybe i could combine a head from Brain with a CE bottom end? (by the way, I am ready to order if either can give a firm date for deliverey, the date my 1200 mile departure is coming soon!)

So for now, back to the shadetree!

I am no expert, but I was frankly horrified at the head design of this motor. The 6:1 compression is laughable, and the total lack of a squish band baffles me.

For the time being i do have access to a lathe, cnc mill, aluminum/bronze foundry, and waterjet cutting machine. Plus I have the help of an expert, since I am not experienced with the CNC.

I also happen to be a blacksmith by trade, so I have all that equipment.

What I want to do is rework the stock head to add a squish band. It seems to me that one "quick and dirty" method would be to use a mig welder to add the necessary material for a squish band, then turn it down on a lathe to make the smooth bevels, then lap the deck to remove any heat warpage.
Adding material to the inside of the head will also increase the compression ratio.

In addition, I could bevel the top of the piston to maximize the benefit of the squish band.

Any thoughts? I have a spare engine to try this on, and would like to get started!

Also- anybody know what the ideal bevel angles would be, for both the piston and the squish band?
 
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Egor

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Jan 30, 2008
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Hurricane Utah
Huff - I would like to be near someone that has access to some machines to do some mods to the little happy time engines. I wonder about mods to the head and what would be the best one for this little engine. There used to be a star burst head made for use on all the small engines (IE Yam, Suz, Hoda,) and it added a lot of cooling to the engine. I have looked for one at Ebay and the like, but to no avail. One combustion chamber I remember was one that was a gouge out of the combustion middle from front to rear and the rest was close contour to the piston. Most of the heads had a place for two plugs or a compression release. Also I think one reason that the compression is low is that the bottom end of this engine is not built very strong, I wonder how much compression it can stand. The engines I have with all my porting and carb's, I would guess are putting out about 4 to 5 hp. But one thing I will say the hp will not stay that high if you keep asking for it. As the engine heat soaks the hp goes down and does not return till the engine cools off. One of the things that I realize is that as the efficiency of the engine goes up, I also notice that the fuel mileage increases quite a bit. I would like to see the engine fins out to the edges of the crankcase and the head increased to fit the extra barrel fins. I Like to see real talent come to the forum, this is fun. Have fun, Dave
 
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Huffathump

New Member
Feb 24, 2009
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indiana
Jim: thanks for the info. I would LOVE to see your head modification ideas! That is what i love about this forum!

Dave- I wondered about finding a universal head for this motor, but I ran into the same problem. I know they exist,but finding one seems like the search for the holy grail. Actually, I would be happy to find one that was close enough to weld shut the (stud) holes and drill new ones. (although from what you say, I had better add "lots of cooling fins" to the list)

Also I dont so much demand higher horsepower- what I want is more reliability AT a given horsepower, cleaner burning/ better mileage, and a wide powerband so that I can climb hills with a heavy load. I know that a head alone will not do all this, that is why I am looking for the right combination of carb, intake length, bottom end, head, headpipe, and expansion chamber. I have just enough experience with automotive drag racing to know that it is all about the combination, not a single magic bolt on part (my first mistake ever was chucking a monster roller cam into my stock camaro and finding out that it went SLOWER- until I changed the headers, heads, intake, etc- then it became a freaking MONSTER.)

As to the question of "how much compression can a BGF chinagirl take?" I have a pair of these cheap little motors, and i plan on destroying one of them with excessive compression/max rpms just to see what fails first. (and if compression alone wont do it, then I am pretty sure I have a large enough NOS tank to finish the job)
 
Sep 20, 2008
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Clearwater, FL
web.tampabay.rr.com
Jim: thanks for the info. I would LOVE to see your head modification ideas! That is what i love about this forum!

Dave- I wondered about finding a universal head for this motor, but I ran into the same problem. I know they exist,but finding one seems like the search for the holy grail. Actually, I would be happy to find one that was close enough to weld shut the (stud) holes and drill new ones. (although from what you say, I had better add "lots of cooling fins" to the list)

Also I dont so much demand higher horsepower- what I want is more reliability AT a given horsepower, cleaner burning/ better mileage, and a wide powerband so that I can climb hills with a heavy load. I know that a head alone will not do all this, that is why I am looking for the right combination of carb, intake length, bottom end, head, headpipe, and expansion chamber. I have just enough experience with automotive drag racing to know that it is all about the combination, not a single magic bolt on part (my first mistake ever was chucking a monster roller cam into my stock camaro and finding out that it went SLOWER- until I changed the headers, heads, intake, etc- then it became a freaking MONSTER.)

As to the question of "how much compression can a BGF chinagirl take?" I have a pair of these cheap little motors, and i plan on destroying one of them with excessive compression/max rpms just to see what fails first. (and if compression alone wont do it, then I am pretty sure I have a large enough NOS tank to finish the job)
Huff,

That's funny! I did the exact same thing, to the same car, myself. Actually I didn't use a roller, but it was a long duration cam. It lost so much power that it felt like I had swapped the V-8 for a 4-cylinder. I didn't realize until later that I had effectively cut the dynamic compression in half.

The cases are really thin on these little Chinese engines. Just be carefull not to spit the crank out. If it flew in the right direction you may get a nasty cut. It would be better to blow one up on the bench, hooked to a dyno, and covered by a scatter shield.

The cases are so thin that there really isn't much that can be done to them. There isn't even enough material for a thin O-ring. There are two areas that have enough metal for 1/4" dowel pins. I would highly recommended doing this, as these cases shuffle.

I decided to make a set of cases for the new engines just so that I would have some material to work with.

As soon as I can put some drawings together for the head chamber geometry; I'll post them up.

Egor,

The cylinder head I designed for the new engine has twice the effective cooling surface area...This should really make a difference. I really want to do a sunburst design, but the cycle time on the CNC would triple...which in turn would double the cost.

While the CNC is on auto cycle making parts...I have been inputting the entire engine into the CAD program. I will be finished soon, and put it up on the forum so you guys can see what the new engines will look like.

Jim
 

Huffathump

New Member
Feb 24, 2009
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indiana
a matter of curiosity- why do we have to machine the new heads? I am aware of all the advantages of billet constructed items- but virtually nothing else on the motors is milled.

Why not vacuum cast the heads? this would lower the "per item" cost to nearly nothing, and make starburst patterns a piece of cake. Of course, there is always a failure rate when casting aluminum but a skilled eye can almost always catch a flaw once the leftover slag has been blasted off the parts.

Final cleanup would be done on a mill, of course but both material and labor cost would be reduced dramatically.
 

Huffathump

New Member
Feb 24, 2009
30
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indiana
"The cases are really thin on these little Chinese engines. Just be carefull not to spit the crank out. If it flew in the right direction you may get a nasty cut."

This will all be done on bike, but the bike will be weighted down and mounted on this neat exercise bike thingie I found at the local bike shop. The rear wheel sits on it and you can vary the resistance with a little knob. It even has a little speedometer to tell you how fast you are going! It also keeps a record of top speed, which is good because I plan on being far away from the thing when it blows. Since the bike in question has a rack and some old pannier bags, I plan on just wheghting it down with about 150 pound of iron, and buying the longest piece of throttle cable I can find! (maybe hiding behind a cinderblock wall as well!)

Hmmm... I may need to "borrow" a digital video camera for this. U-Tube, here we come!
 
Sep 20, 2008
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Clearwater, FL
web.tampabay.rr.com
a matter of curiosity- why do we have to machine the new heads? I am aware of all the advantages of billet constructed items- but virtually nothing else on the motors is milled.

Why not vacuum cast the heads? this would lower the "per item" cost to nearly nothing, and make starburst patterns a piece of cake. Of course, there is always a failure rate when casting aluminum but a skilled eye can almost always catch a flaw once the leftover slag has been blasted off the parts.

Final cleanup would be done on a mill, of course but both material and labor cost would be reduced dramatically.
You're absolutely right! And I may look into it again, but the following is typical with castings. The economy is bad: so some of what I have experienced in the past may be old news.

The casting process is driven by volume. The initial cash outlay for tooling and a run of say 500 pieces, (which is a small order), would take forever to amortize. I don't have that many orders, and I'm not willing to put out that kind of money on a hope that they would sell. If you have an inside track to this I will gladly buy your castings in 50 lot, and machine them myself to suit my engines.

I would have to find a foundry up north as the foundries here only do ornamental items like lamp posts. Shipping would become an issue.

The cylinder heads would be all but useless unless they were dowel pinned to the jug and the deck height was carefully set. Ideally you want .030-.040" clearance between the piston and head at the squish surface. These would not be a simple bolt-on, "done", upgrade. The customer would have to send thier jug to a machine shop that would then dowel it to the drawing I provided. While this would of course be possible, it would drastically limit sales...so then we go back full circle and I have to ask myself if I really need a lifetime supply of small cylinder heads.

It's more practical to make them from billet on the CNC.

Here's an analogy based on a capability that I have in my shop; a Brown & Sharpe No.2 Automatic Screw Machine. These machines create turned parts at a rapid rate. For example a brass Carb jet every 12 seconds, bronze bushings in 4 seconds, the cam for my clutch actuator kit in 35 seconds, etc. etc. It's an automated machine for making turned parts up to 1 1/2" in diameter. This automation comes with a price.

For each job a set of plate cams have to be made, as well as the actual form tooling for the part. The cams are purchased from an industrial supplier that specializes in this type of thing. The cost is typically $350.00 for a set of cams. The form tooling, part-off blades etc. are made in-house. This can take anywhere from 4 hours to several days.

Once the machine is set-up to rock and roll, it is best to run at least 5,000 parts in order to amortize the cost of the cams, tooling, and time spent setting the machine up. If 5,000 parts represents a 10 year supply why bother...even though the per piece cost was very low it means nothing if you can't sell them.

I used the Brown & Sharpe to make the clutch actuator cams because every quote I got from shops with CNC lathes, (I don't have one yet), was in the $4.00 range. I made 500 cams @ 1.80ea. It took about 3 hours to produce them. It would have been better to have made 5,000. The per piece price would have been material cost plus 35 cents, or 80 cents each. But how long would it take to sell 5,000 clutch kits. I've sold about 100 since last September.

Jim
 
Sep 20, 2008
1,668
13
0
Clearwater, FL
web.tampabay.rr.com
"The cases are really thin on these little Chinese engines. Just be carefull not to spit the crank out. If it flew in the right direction you may get a nasty cut."

This will all be done on bike, but the bike will be weighted down and mounted on this neat exercise bike thingie I found at the local bike shop. The rear wheel sits on it and you can vary the resistance with a little knob. It even has a little speedometer to tell you how fast you are going! It also keeps a record of top speed, which is good because I plan on being far away from the thing when it blows. Since the bike in question has a rack and some old pannier bags, I plan on just wheghting it down with about 150 pound of iron, and buying the longest piece of throttle cable I can find! (maybe hiding behind a cinderblock wall as well!)

Hmmm... I may need to "borrow" a digital video camera for this. U-Tube, here we come!
Good plan Huff, I like it!!! I can't wait for the video!

Jim
 

Huffathump

New Member
Feb 24, 2009
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indiana
I guess understand what you are saying as far as CNC- like I said, I am no expert there. However I dont see why the heads would have to be dowell pinned when the stock ones are not. Yes, that would be higher qualtiy. i am sure that your billet parts will beat anyhting that came out of a mould.

Also, I do a lot of casting and I can say from experience that 50 piece orders are quite practical- with a turnaround of less than a week, using just my small foundry. If the numbers breached the 200 part mark I would job the casting out to one of the many foundries that are sitting idle in this economy.

Also, small adjustments can be made in the wax model or even the injection mold to "tweak" the design. That is why many factories go to small guys like me for the prototyping process: I can make six different prototypes in a day, and melt down all but the best without having wasted any material. Of course, when casting one has to take into account things like the high thermal expansion coefficient of aluminum, elimination of porosity, creation of slag reservoirs, etc. The process is neither perfect nor hands free- but I do plan on whipping up a few prototypes just to see how they compare. If they work I will send you one, so that you can make fun of the ugly casting lines ;)
 

DIYMark

New Member
Feb 26, 2009
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Australia
Ive designed a 8:1 compression, 45/65 squish band head for the 50cc engine. If anyone wants I can post up the inventer part file tomorrow.

By 45/65 I mean the squish band covers 45% of the piston SA. This is intended to bring more power to the lower RPM's of the 50cc as they are balanced ok from stock and have good top end but require a bit more torque for the hills (or to pull steeper gearing).

As a side note I was thinking of doing what Jim is doing - essentially fixing these engines. But one problem exisits, reguardless of how "good" you make the engine, you still are using the sh!tty chinese gears and clutch which is just wrong. Why use crap drive train components on a good engine (after you fix it that is)?

Another problem is the gearing. Its a single speed set up so you HAVE to make a comprimsie (be it speed or rear wheel torque), this kind of sucks when riding as you either have to rev the crud outta the engine have speed (with hill gearing) or the engine stuggles up the hills with speed gearing! Oh and a shifter kit, with a tuned 50cc will destory a bicycle chain so the shift kit is out of the question.

That is why, from now on I personally use pocket bike engines. Firstly, because they are cheap, have lots of upgrade parts and have a auto clutch. So even if you have speed gearing you can slip the clutch a bit to get up hills, where as on a HT the clutch is fixed to the engine which has to struggle to get up hill (with speed gearing) - then stall lol.

But then again I have my own machine shop at home which makes homemade easy. For the average joe a kit is the way to go, 200 bucks and a bike later he has a motorised bike which is great value. Not to mention fun (the first time you make one, gets old quick on the second one when you have to fix the same old issues haha).

BTW how are you making your cylinders Jim? the stock 66cc ones have terrible timing so are you fixing them or making your own from scratch?
 

lennyharp

Member
Jul 19, 2008
431
6
18
Mesa Arizona
I peddle up the hills so it is fine as is with moderate gears. I will get the improved motor for the added dependability it gives. Clutch is not an issue when you use the motor as designed as an assist motor.