79cc Sportsman Flyer build

[Tom from Rubicon]

Had to make a shim of 1/4"6061-T6 and still have to remove metal from a corner of the Q-matic transmission clutch side bracket to clear the frame hanger tube. Makes me wonder what I was thinking except to reduce the complexity of the Sportsman Flyer transmission. It will be solved if I have to machine a whole new instead of the aluminum extrusion which has marginal strength for it’s designed application.
Tom from Rubicon WI

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Q-matic inner transfer case bracket modified, last week. Still trying to post photos.
Some forums are easy this one not so much, or I am lazy and just don't want to jump the hoops. Snow will soon be in the forecast here, and I have a ton of irons on the fire.
Not bad for a guy pushing 66 years young.
Tom from Rubicon

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Q-matic transmission canceled from this project. If I made it work, the transmission would be at an angle for the chain to clear the chain stay which was esthetically wrong. At least to me. Contacted Pat Dolan, and ordered his Reduction drive system, and Bully clutch. Sorry, but a Q-matic and a drop loop frame are a less than perfect combination. So I end this non kit thread for the above reasons. Should anyone like to prove me wrong I would be delighted.
As I have a Q-matic transmission in need of a purpose.
Tom

 

[MotoMagz]

I ain't provin anything. Good choice to go with Pats set up which will look clean? I think you might have possibly been able to use a tensioner to help clear chain?

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

MotoMagz
My calculation was a twenty degree rise in the out put end of the transmission would provide the necessary clearance to make the Q-matic work. But esthetically a Flyer is not a Whizzer. Pat has got intouch with me. Things will soon be put to right.
Thanks for the reply.
Tom

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

My last email to Pat was this last Friday 1/13/17 to finalize my order of needed parts.
SPORTSMAN PEDAL CRANK ASSEMBLY WITH REDUCTION HUB
SPORTSMAN FLYER CENTRIFUGAL CLUTCH BY BULLY
SPORTSMAN HEAVY DUTY SPROCKET ADAPTER
Same day I called Worksman and ordered their 4136A 26X2.125 wheel, which should be here any day now.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

http://s481.photobucket.com/user/trpetersonwi/media/DSCN0699_zpsaxhd6vtu.jpg.html?sort=2&o=39
Lousy photo. Will try again soon.
Tom

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Sorry, it's been a while since I posted last. I gave up on using the Q-Matic and ordered the Sportsman Flyer reduction system. I have not contacted Pat since I received it, alignment issues between the reduction system and drive sprocket are at the heart of the problem and I suspect the fault is mine. I did assume a pure Sportsman Flyer would be so to say turn-key. The Bully clutch does not align with the reduction drive system either. That I think can be corrected by counterboring the Bully clutch hub to allow it to come a 1/16" or so closer to the engine case. I was sure I would be riding a Sportsman flyer in 2017, looks like 2018 is more realistic. I have not pursued this project as assiduously as I planned. (Too many irons in the fire) Well winter is coming and I expect to devote more time to resolve and perfect this machine. I have a Huffy-Davidson that needs some loving too.
Regards, Tom from Rubicon

 

[zean]

Hello Tom. The issues with the reduction hub, is it possible to slot the engine mounting plate to get a slight amount of side to side movement for exact chain alignment?

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Hello zean,
Thanks for the thought, a Sportsman Flyer is a different sort of cat from my first build. All geometries are fixed at the bottom bracket. The clutch has to align with the fixed sprocket of the reduction drive and the output sprocket of the reduction drive must align with the wheel sprocket. I am suspecting, and I could be wrong that the rear drop outs are not in perfect alignment. I am going to add a 1/16" washer or two to spread the drop-outs a bit. A smart person would have just ordered a complete bike from Pat.
Hind sight is almost always 20 20. Then just to add to the aggravation I am considering going to a 160cc set-up.
Yes, I will at that point have to tag it as a moped.
I do appreciate all contributions to this thread.
Tom from Rubicon

 

[zean]

Hello Tom. I learned something about the Sportsman Flyer from your explanation. Thank you. Could I have a couple more minutes of your time? The reduction hub floats on the bottom bracket shaft. The driven sprocket and the output sprocket of the reduction hub have to align simultaneously with the clutch and wheel sprockets respectively. Could you first align the output sprocket of the reduction hub to the wheel sprocket then secondly, with slight engine side to side movement, align the clutch sprocket to the driven sprocket?
Maybe I'm missing something. If the rear drop-outs are slightly misaligned then the out-put sprocket won't align with the wheel sprocket without first spreading the rear drop-outs?

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Hello Tom. I learned something about the Sportsman Flyer from your explanation. Thank you. Could I have a couple more minutes of your time? The reduction hub floats on the bottom bracket shaft. The driven sprocket and the output sprocket of the reduction hub have to align simultaneously with the clutch and wheel sprockets respectively. Could you first align the output sprocket of the reduction hub to the wheel sprocket then secondly, with slight engine side to side movement, align the clutch sprocket to the driven sprocket?
Maybe I'm missing something. If the rear drop-outs are slightly misaligned then the out-put sprocket won't align with the wheel sprocket without first spreading the rear drop-outs?

Hi zean,
Firstly, do not take what I write that it should dissuade you for purchasing or building a Sportsman Flyer. Pat's product is very well engineered and crafted.
Secondly, My Sportsman Flyer frame was not purchased from Pat, I acquired it from a retailer of MB parts in Wisconsin.
Right now, as you have in your last paragraph, You are correct. I have already made spacer washers of 4140 and yet to be applied. There isn't much fudge factor in this design. Sorry I can't provide more depth at this time.
Photos would be useful but just a short time ago I upgraded to Win 10. I appreciate your thoughts zean.
I need some pushing to further this project to a ride able state.
Regards, Tom from Rubicon

 

[zean]

Hello Tom. Nothing you wrote diverted my opinion of Pat's products which are, "very well engineered and crafted". What I learned from your explanation is that: the reduction system will not work with almost all store bought beach cruisers, even a Worksman drop loop frame, without some well educated modifications and, more importantly, someone should not use an aftermarket motorized bicycle or go kart transmission on Pat's motorized bicycles or rolling chassis because his frames are designed to work best with only his reduction drive system.
Thanks again Tom for your insightful explanations of the details you encountered during your build.

 

[culvercityclassic]

I have used a bunch of Sportsman Flyer reduction drives on non-worksman frames, it take a little work to make it right but well worth it. I would try the spacers on the hub first. I

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

I have used a bunch of Sportsman Flyer reduction drives on non-worksman frames, it take a little work to make it right but well worth it. I would try the spacers on the hub first. I

I made six 1/16 4140 washers to experiment with. You are right about Pat's reduction drives in other frames. I've seen more than a few of your excellent builds that incorporate it.
Thanks for the reply,
Tom from Rubicon

 

[sportscarpat]

Just now seeing this thread. Tom, your system is a bolt on and if you encounter any issues why not contact me directly? I will get you going. I have done plenty of Flyers with this system on the 110mm frame and the 79cc four stroke. Just contact me. Do not modify ANY parts.
Pat

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Pat Dolan is right about swinging the engine mount sidewise to achieve alignment of the Bully sprocket to the reduction input sprocket. The chain now feeds without trying to jump. .
I still had the brake arm locked and couldn’t shift the drive sprocket to align with the reduction output. In February I finally got of my ass to analyze what I was doing wrong. First thing was to unclamp the brake arm and things started looking better. Look closely and you will see that with wrong offset the brake arm doesn't give anywhere near the clearance needed to allow the SPORTSMAN HEAVY DUTY SPROCKET ADAPTER to shift into alignment with the reduction drive. Much better. The brake arm offset is 3/4". The way I figured it out was to go back in Pat's Flicker account and delve through his SF80 build photos which he annotated. Lucky me.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Another delay, this is what happens when you don't purchase a complete Motoredbike.
Long time ago I made a decision to run gold chain on pedal side of my bike. Went to the local bike/ski shop in
Hartford, WI. and purchased a pack of KMC Z410 gold. Fast forward last weekend after getting engine side chains set.
Round to pedal side and hang the chain and the chain is a half link from being right and to my knowledge that style chain doesn't have half links.
Back in the house sipping on some barley pop, snooping the internet me thinks I have found the Holy Grail of half link chain. Shadow Conspiracy Interlock V2 Half Link. Didn't pay attention to primary use too much (Barley Pop) that it's recommended use was Fixies and BMX. Their bicycles right? Gotta be good.
InterlockV2 arrived 4/13/18? I ain't going there. So today 4/14 I am set to fit the chain on my bike and the darn chain is short by about two inches. *^$#&@ ! So back to the house pour a New Belgium White Ale. You catching on as to why this build is taking longer than expected? Oh well.
Any way in the package of V2 chain was a nice B\W double side instruction sheet recommending their Shadow Conspiracy Interlock Chain Breaker. Fact is I Raleigh tool kit braker broke and the cheapy from Wally World is.
So 4/13/18 I order one knowing most of a week will pass before it arrives.
Then today 4/14 I had to order another V2 chain.
That's my story, for lack of 3" of chain I spent another $35 to have the prettiest pedal chain a Sportsman Flyer ever had.

 

[Tony01]

1/8” chain should work. You won’t be using it much. I have never owned a chain breaker. Use a punch, hammer and socket. Find any small half link and splice it in, mix and match pin and rollers to fit. You can make your own half link from another link.

 

[sportscarpat]

Diamond brand #41 on both sides of the bike. I use half links all the time.