Bully Clutch on 79cc Pred with jack plate???

The clutch came in a blow molded case and there are some washers with it. My motor is a one off in that it was a small snow blower motor that I had the crank shaft modified.
I do have a 212 Predator on the shelf and I'll look at it tomorrow and see if there are any special washers in there that fit. If it's needed I'm sure that it's there because they are very thorough in making sure the parts you need are there.

The aluminum sprockets are usually made by Azusa Go Karts. The one you posted looks like the ones I have. I'll check what size the bolt spread is and let you know.

Steve.
 
fasteddy said:
The clutch came in a blow molded case and there are some washers with it. My motor is a one off in that it was a small snow blower motor that I had the crank shaft modified.
I do have a 212 Predator on the shelf and I'll look at it tomorrow and see if there are any special washers in there that fit. If it's needed I'm sure that it's there because they are very thorough in making sure the parts you need are there.

The aluminum sprockets are usually made by Azusa Go Karts. The one you posted looks like the ones I have. I'll check what size the bolt spread is and let you know.

Steve.
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t

Mine is a 79cc Predator not the 212. I do have one. I guess its good to know anyways. Reno
 
I don't think the way the clutch mounting on the crank shaft will differ from the 79cc to the 212cc or they would be making different clutches for them. The 1.68 inches is for the Azusa sprockets which yours looks like.

You might be better off emailing AGK and asking if the sprocket fits what you have. That will take the guess work out of it.

Steve.
 
From what I'm seeing here the bolt patterns should match. If not, don't worry about drilling extra holes in the adapter as it won't hurt anything.

In fact for better longevity and a better fit, drill three new holes and tap them......then bolt the sprocket on and use the nylock nuts as well for extra measure. The reason behind this is that the holes in the adapter are a little too large and still don't line up correctly with the sprockets with the 6mm x 1.0 bolts supplied.

One more thing I feel is very important is the chain alignment when using these AGK aluminum sprockets.....make sure the alignment is perfect otherwise they won't last very long at all, just ask me how i know ;) If alignment is spot on, they last a real long time.

Oh.....just one last thing (again)....#35 chain is the way to go...for the whole drive train. It's stronger (and lighter) than 415 or #41 for that matter. I've been running #41 for my secondaries on my 99cc and 212cc builds but that's going to change in the very near future as it keeps things more simple.

Have fun!
 
fasteddy said:
I don't think the way the clutch mounting on the crank shaft will differ from the 79cc to the 212cc or they would be making different clutches for them. The 1.68 inches is for the Azusa sprockets which yours looks like.

You might be better off emailing AGK and asking if the sprocket fits what you have. That will take the guess work out of it.

Steve.
Click to expand...

The shaft sizes are different between the 212cc and the 79cc (also 99cc). I have to use a sleeve on my 99cc which has a 5/8" PTO if running the same clutches from my 212cc which has a 3/4" PTO shaft. An easy painless mod.

cheers, scotto-
 
fasteddy said:
I don't think the way the clutch mounting on the crank shaft will differ from the 79cc to the 212cc or they would be making different clutches for them. The 1.68 inches is for the Azusa sprockets which yours looks like.

You might be better off emailing AGK and asking if the sprocket fits what you have. That will take the guess work out of it.

Steve.
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Your right. IDK. Let me start by saying this. Sportsman Flyer advertises the Bully Clutch available for 5/8 or 3/4 shaft option. Is this two different clutch bores? Or does Sportsman send an adapter bushing kit with the Clutch when you specify which shaft its for? Thats what I dont know. I noticed that my 212 may have a bit bigger lip on the shaft itself. Im saying this because Ive read there needs to be a special lip ring that goes on before the clutch. I think the inside of the ring has the lip machined inverted or reversed if you get what Im saying? I think you do. Then that special ring has the correct flat on the outside facing the builder ready to stack space for alignment. Im just wondering how that all comes together. Mine is a 5/8 Predator shaft. Sportsman has built some nice 79cc Predator bikes fit with the Bully. I read it on this forum. (I believe if I remember it was a predator) I know was a 79 cc for sure. Im sure if I order the Clutch for a 5/8 shaft, everything will be in there. By the way, I ordered my sprocket from Azuza just now. I looked at their chart and found that a 29 tooth is a match for my 22. AGK was out of stock. Im glad though. Because I almost ordered their 22 tooth. After looking at the chart, the number of teeth is irrelevant when changing chain types. Its the diameter of the sprocket that controls the ratio. Not the number of teeth. The number of teeth is only relevant when keeping the same chain type. Im sure you probably already know this. Im just clearing this up on the forum. The 29 was the best match with my 22 according to their chart. I hope this the case. The chart says so. Am I right? I'll update this when My sprocket gets here as well when I get that clutch. Thanks for all your help Steve. I want my Bully Clutch now. haha Renoxct2xct2
 
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scotto- said:
From what I'm seeing here the bolt patterns should match. If not, don't worry about drilling extra holes in the adapter as it won't hurt anything.

In fact for better longevity and a better fit, drill three new holes and tap them......then bolt the sprocket on and use the nylock nuts as well for extra measure. The reason behind this is that the holes in the adapter are a little too large and still don't line up correctly with the sprockets with the 6mm x 1.0 bolts supplied.

One more thing I feel is very important is the chain alignment when using these AGK aluminum sprockets.....make sure the alignment is perfect otherwise they won't last very long at all, just ask me how i know ;) If alignment is spot on, they last a real long time.

Oh.....just one last thing (again)....#35 chain is the way to go...for the whole drive train. It's stronger (and lighter) than 415 or #41 for that matter. I've been running #41 for my secondaries on my 99cc and 212cc builds but that's going to change in the very near future as it keeps things more simple.

Have fun!
Click to expand...

I think it would fit maybe too. Im just not sure though. Because It says it fits their mini hub and I found the dimensions on this forum and on their site. The measurements differ from my "hub" by 3/16 or so. It was sketchy to decide and Im glad they were out of stock. I just ordered from azuza. I believe its the correct one to a T. They have a chart with every size that you need to cross measure with mating parts. It should be here soon.

Yes, drilling and tapping and back nut is a great idea. I dont have a rotory table on my mill yet though. I noticed the holes are a bit loose also. The bore match is whats important in my case though because it slips over the 1" shoulder on my hub. tapping is a great idea. I might do mine when I finalize everything. I cant stand the short nylon nuts that came with mine. The thread bearly reaches the nylon. lol. Im like "ok" lol Give another 1/16th please?

Yea, I think the 35 chain is going to be much smoother.. As for alignment. I could already see the wear on the sprocket we are discussing that im replacing. I pushed the hub in about a 32nd of an inch yesterday and knew it wasnt right. I had it all aligned beforehand but was too lazy to trim the clutch side. I could see it with my naked eye. I took a corner and back test today. Now that the sprocket is off, I can see the wear on the one side. Its nothing too bad but your absolutely right, they will wear fast if they are off just a tad bit. I hope this new sprocket works. From their chart, everything checked out correct. I measured everything with my calipers. Thanks for the help and information Scotto
 
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Reno, the clutches are two different sizes. There isn't a bushing. I didn't realize the smaller motors had a 5/8" shaft. Mine has a 3/4" shaft because the pulley was originally on the very end of it and it is longer that normal. Lots of room to play and and still a lot left over.

I understand what you mean by the slope on the shoulder of the crankshaft. Mine has the same thing. I'll look at the washers tomorrow and let you know if it has one.

Steve.
 
fasteddy said:
Reno, the clutches are two different sizes. There isn't a bushing. I didn't realize the smaller motors had a 5/8" shaft. Mine has a 3/4" shaft because the pulley was originally on the very end of it and it is longer that normal. Lots of room to play and and still a lot left over.

I understand what you mean by the slope on the shoulder of the crankshaft. Mine has the same thing. I'll look at the washers tomorrow and let you know if it has one.

Steve.
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Yours must be a 3/4 Bully clutch if you have a 212cc Predator. The 5/8 Sportsman Flyer Bully may come with a bushing to compensate for the diameter difference. My 79cc is 5/8. This is why Im asking if there is a mandatory bushing sleeve because I cant find a 5/8 Bully anywhere. Its ok if it does come with a sleeve. Then I can use it on a 212 too if I have to without buying a new clutch :). Im going to order it now and get it over with. I need it regardless. If it dont have a sleeve (meaning its a true 5/8 bore Bully clutch) thats ok too. Less parts going on in that department may be better. Let me know if there were any lip ring shoulder washers that came with your Bully clutch if you can. Im interested in knowing if it came with the one that mates with the shoulder on the engine output shaft. By the way, I measured my clutch and came out with the same width pretty much as you told me your Bully was. So thats a good thing. I think mine was a 32nd less in length (Bore length). So this is looking good. Keeping my fingers crossed. Its difficult to communicate over the computer sometimes. Thanks. Reno
 
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The clutches I sell come in either 5/8" or 3/4". No sleeves are used. A 5/8" cannot then be used later on a 3/4" application without replacing the entire driver. I set them at 2800-3200 rpm as delivered. This does not mean that is correct for your application. It is important to adjust them properly. I set them to engage ABOVE choke-on start up rpm so it doesn't drag as you try to start the engine. Clutches do require specific set up and maintenance. Read the instructions. Finally, they are made to order and there is a lead time before shipping. If your in a hurry then don't buy from me. Sorry to sound harsh but I am a small business turning out quality parts. I am not amazon.com.
Thanks,
Pat
 
The official word is in. I'm glad that Pat corrected everything.

The clutch comes with 2 washers to compensate for any play on the crankshaft, the key to hold the clutch in place on the crank shaft and the washer and bolt to hold the clutch on the crank shaft and a small amount of lubricant for the clutch.

There is a slight flare on the end of the liner that fits on the crank shaft so it fits against the slope on the crank shaft. Hope this helps.

Steve.
 
Little update here. My #35 sprocket arrived from Azusa Engineering today. That was quick. The new 29 tooth Azusa sprocket fit my Gasbike.net jackshaft plate like a glove like the old one and at "just about" the same diameter as the old one. Im talking a 16th of an inch diameter difference. So thats pretty much dead on. The root diameter of the new sprocket is on the plus side the 16th. The peak diameter was minus the 16th. Its because the chains different. Wont feel the difference anyways Im just glad the same diameter sprocket was available. The bore was the same. The bolt hole circle was the same. Im saying this so people know that the Gasbike.net Jackshaft plate can be converted to #35 chain from Azusa. Gasbike.net does not sell a #35 sprocket from what I checked unless I missed it. They come with a #215 sprocket on the input and output for $99.00 plus shipping. Agk sells theirs with a #35 input and #215 output for Im guessing $130.00 plus shipping (I have no idea if the AGK unit is interchangable with Gasbike.nets unit. I paid $24.89 for the new #35 sprocket shipped to my door {Yes shipping was more than the sprocket :)}. Theres a few bucks to save there with the Gasbike.net plate plus have an extra #215 sprocket laying around for a spare etc. Theres most likely some difference in the two plates. IDK. As far as the quality, I cant say too much as Ive never held an AGK Jackshaft plate. I can say the Gasbike.net plate is built pretty well for the most part. Its seems to be machined decently and seems to have decent sealed bearings in it that spin smooth. No play or anything. I'll see what happens as preferences can always arise. Im just trying to keep my build price as low as possible while keeping the quality there. Reno
 
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fasteddy said:
Here's the Bully measurements.

Inside the clutch that sits on the crank shaft 2-5/16" long.

Bell diameter is 4"

Distance from end of the clutch to the outside of the sprocket is 1/4"

I haven't used the Willard clutch yet but I wouldn't recommend it. They are metal to metal and I don't see that lasting to long. It was just something to use to judge distances until I found a clutch that I wanted. The better shoe type clutches often require adjusting (replacing) the shoes and springs until you find a set that works.

You can buy a box of different spring weights and shoes and then it's a matter of replacing them until you get what you want. Ask the supplier of Bully clutches if it will work on your motor. I bought mine from Pat at Sportsman Flyer.

It sounds like you are getting clutch chatter as you pull away. That is where the shoes grab the bell and then let go and grab it again. The shoes hold tight once you are going fast enough. That is one of the benefits of the plated clutch. When it makes contact it doesn't chatter unless the plate is worn out or oily.

Hope this helps with your decision and if you need more information please ask. I posted photos of my Bully clutch on my thread Indian Tadpole. Silver bear started it so it's under his name. Click on the link and it will take you to my Photobucket account where the photos are stored.

It's in the Motorized Tandems, Trikes and Recumbent Bikes section.

Steve.
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I have a new concern. Do you know how long the keyway slot is on your bully clutch? I imagine the keyed side is on the spring side? Correct? I got this Aluminum Jackshaft plate that is 1/2 inch thick. Im scared the clutch key (since its on the spring side) isnt going to catch the crank key slot enough. My cheapy clutch has the integrated key roughly positioned centered in the Bore of the clutch. The bully key slot starts on the spring side and I have no idea how far back it goes. I hope this doesnt give me a problem or I wont be able to use the jacshaft plate with the Bully.
 
I went down and looked at the clutch Reno and the keyed side is on the spring side and the key way is 1-1/4" long. There is 1-1/8" on the motor side. The supplied key is 7/8" long.

The instruction that come with it are some of the best I've ever seen. They"re in colour with measurement diagrams to explain how to maintain the clutch and there are six pages and the seventh page is a blow up of the clutch with the parts list included.

Steve.
 
fasteddy said:
I went down and looked at the clutch Reno and the keyed side is on the spring side and the key way is 1-1/4" long. There is 1-1/8" on the motor side. The supplied key is 7/8" long.

The instruction that come with it are some of the best I've ever seen. They"re in colour with measurement diagrams to explain how to maintain the clutch and there are six pages and the seventh page is a blow up of the clutch with the parts list included.

Steve.
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Thanks Steve very much for assisting me here. I went in the garage just now too with these measurements. If all correct, it works out perfectly. What I mean by this is this: I checked the numbers against my output shaft and I "should" be able to get the 7/8 long key stock in the slot "mating both" the clutch and the shaft with a 64th of an inch to spare. Now I dont know how much more luckyer a person can get... haha. Wow! I know this isnt a perfect measurement until I receive my #35 chain and clutch to recheck this but its looking on the upside compared to what I was thinking. First of all, all the pictures of the bully clutch seem like the keyway is only 3/4". And, thats one thing I was so worried about. Sheesh, 1-1/4 is not too short when I took my caliper to my output shaft for a measurement. It was much more than I thought it was is what Im saying here. And, Im already in the process of making a steel, 5/8 piece of keyed slug to fill the end of the clutch on the spring side. See, I have a 3/8 plate on the side of my 79cc predator so that plate pushes the clutch out that much. I have to space the shaft shoulder side 3/8 "properly" including the provided shoulder mating ring. Then clutch. Then put the key up in there (which the whole 7/8 worth of key should fit touching "both clutch and shaft"). Then my keyed 5/8 plug that will be drilled providing a path for the main bolt. I think Im going to make my own longer key to run out the rest of the length of the keyed plug so its not sliding around in there. The trick with the keyed slug is, the length will need to be finish milled to length size, flush with the key too, including everything else will be stacked properly on the shaft. Im hoping. Bully recommends some end play, but Its too early to think about that at this stage. In an earlier post, I think you said the sprocket on the Bully clutch starts 1/4 inch from the clutches end? I checked mine and its about the same, maybe a tad more. I have a habit of measuring everything with calipers. I used to be a machinist so I know its going give the tightest measurement. :) Sometimes it makes me think more than I should but at least things get measured correctly. Anyways, I hope it all comes together as planned. It sounds good so far. I know your clutch is for a 3/4 shaft engine and mine is for a 5/8 shaft engine; the two clutches could vary in more than one area. Im hoping all this measuring is relevant and they just scaled it down a bit if anything. Meaning a little smaller by a tad by dimensions. Maybe its the same just the bore size changed. Who knows. I have two regular cheapy centerfugal clutches in the garage. One is 3/4 and one is 5/8. Believe it or not, the smaller shaft clutch's total width is more than the larger shaft clutch. haha. You never know sometimes. Anyways. Thanks for helping me Steve. I'll be sure to share the end of this clutch story with you. If it dont work out, It is what it is. I will use the clutch on this build or another build somehow. Im just happy and proud to finally own one that is a disc type. Reno
 
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Side note: Since im changing to a #35 chain, Im guessing the #35 chain is a hair narrower than the previous #215 which might give me a little more space at my attempt to make this work.
 
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