Flying Horse 66/80cc Wiring: Help!

[Panama]

Sages of the 2-cycle,

I am a newb installing a Flying Horse 66/80cc Silver Angle and I have everything done except the wiring. The kit did not come with a manual (although I've heard they are terrible anyway) and the BikeBerry online video instructions do not match what I see on my motor.

I have the following wires and I just need someone to tell me how to hook them up:
From the magneto: I have black, white, and blue, all with male ends.
From the CDI: I have black and blue, with female ends (2 holes each).
From the kill switch: I have black and yellow with no ends, just bare wire.

The video and other online instructions talk about "green" and "yellow+orange" wires, which I do not have.

I feel good about:
a. black from the magneto TO black from CDI
b. blue from magneto TO blue from CDI

Questions: How do I wire in the kill switch? Am I supposed to splice wires? Also, is the white wire not needed for the basic install? I read somewhere that it might be for running a headlamp.

Thanks!

 

[YesImLDS]

From CDI and magneto you match up blue and black. From kill switch you use one wire to white on magneto and the other for a ground on frame. You will have to splice wires for kill switch. Hope this helps!

Also technically you don't even have to use the kill switch if you don't plan on idling. I just removed it completely from my previous build and just taped off the white wire. Then when you put in the clutch it would kill itself and you just continue as normal.

 

[boxcar]

From the Kill switch: black to black from cdi..../ mag
From the kill switch: yellow to blue from CDI...../mag
DO NOT ATTACH ANY WIRE FROM THE KILL SWITCH TO THE WHITE WIRE FROM THE MAG.
The white wire is a charge wire. Lights ETC.
My best advice is to seal it off with shrink wrap and never use it.....
Or search DIY rectifier on this sight. Build the DIY rectifier and use the white wire to charge a battery/ lighting system.
Using the clutch as a kill switch could damage the crank........
I highly recommend you wire the bike correctly and run a kill switch....

 

[2door]

Here's a diagram that shows what Boxcar is saying.

I also agree not to use the white wire, for anything. In fact newer magnetos come without it.

The kill switch is a safety device. You can't shut the engine down with the clutch when you're riding and reaching down to fumble with a choke lever is asking for trouble in an emergency situation.

Jerking the engine to a stop with the clutch, even at idle speed is putting stress on parts, woodruff keys, etc. Install and use the kill switch as it is designed to be used.

Tom

 

[mapbike]

Here is something I threw together real quick in word program, not fancy but hope this will help.

I take Mag cover off and just snip white wire off so there is no need to tape end up or worry about it at all because its gone.

Kill switch wires can be wired in any order just splice each of them into the ignition wires and the switch will work fine.

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[mapbike]

oops, I see Tom was quicker than I.....

I was working on this diagram while Tom was posting another one...LOL

 

[boxcar]

out gun'd again....

 

[mapbike]

out gun'd again....

LOL..... yep Tom beat me to the

 

[YesImLDS]

Disregard what I said then! These guys know more than I do. This was just the set-up I had that seemed to work! Maybe needs freshened up!

 

[Panama]

The emotional roller-coaster continues! I had everything up and running yesterday (finally!) and, after some short test runs, decided to take an actual ride. I made it through town and up the first few hills no problem, and feeling pretty fly. But when I tackled the first really big hill on my route, the bike couldn't make it. The bike got about 40% of the way before it stalled out. On the return trip, I noticed something was a little "off" with the clutch and, when I pulled in to the house, I discovered that two bolts on the clutch cover (sprocket side) were GONE!

Clearly, Loctite or some other substance is needed to secure parts liable to vibrate clean off the rig. Or, at least Loctite will be needed once I buy replacement bolts... I guess that's the price I pay for skipping some more test runs and jumping right to a long ride with hills. Sigh.

My next question is this: How much more power can I squeeze out of the engine (Flying Horse 66/80 cc)? I know it will get a little more power through the break-in period, but I'm guessing I would need AT LEAST 30% more oomph to tackle that hill without having to walk the last part. Without switching engines, how much more can I get out of the system? Here are the suggestions/options I'm anticipating from you all:

1. Lose weight (sorry, guys, I'm already only 140, so that isn't the problem!)
2. Change front tire (still the original fat Huffy Deluxe tire) to something narrower, same as the back.
3. The increased gas: oil ratio after break-in period will help?
4. Carb adjustments of some kind?
5. Throttle needle adjustments maybe?
6. Modify/upgrade exhaust? (would have to wait until the next trip since I can't get parts in Panama)
7. Improve seals around carb/exhaust to reduce air leaks?

Any tips on how to make power-improving adjustments (following the list above or other tricks I don't know about) would be great. What should I prioritize first to get the greatest improvement for the least amount of time/money investment?

Thanks!

 

[2door]

"really big hill on my route"

Hmmm. We have to wonder just what you mean here. What are you considering a really big hill? You have to keep in mind that it is a motorized bicycle and not a motorcycle. Hills can be tough and will slow you down. Some, depending on the % of grade will require you to to pedal assist. Bicycle, remember?

If your routes have a lot of uphill you might want to consider going to a larger rear sprocket. That is like going to a lower gear in a car. It will decrease your top speed some but will enable the engine to pull harder up hills. A 48T or even a 56T sprocket might help your situation.

You're correct that the engine will produce more power after break in. In some cases it will be substantial. It might be enough to tackle those steep grades but if the hills are "really steep" it won't be enough.

A better exhaust will help a little but don't look for neck snapping performance gains especially on hills. Expansion chamber exhaust systems are for high top end performance. Not hill climbing power.

Proper carburetor tuning is critical to power output too. There are pages of discussion here on carb tuning/jetting. Too much information to cover here. Almost without exception the stock carburetor will perform better with a smaller main jet (leaner fuel/air mix). I'd wait until after complete break in to start experimenting with that.

As for performance upgrades, there are many. I wouldn't suggest going too wild with modifications until you have a firm grasp of the engine and you need to consider longivity. A highly modified engine producing maximum horsepower will not typically last as long as well maintained and tuned stock engine. Ask anyone who races and they'll agree that they don't expect to get thousands of miles from a race engine.

There are a lot of after-market upgrades. Some work, some are just snake oil. Don't fall for terms like "racing" "High Performance" "Speed", those are marketing come-ons that usually produce performance gains only in the minds of those who paid good money for them. Carburetors and ignition systems are examples.

Hope some of this helps. You'll get other opinions so be patient.

Tom

 

[mapbike]

carb jetted correctly so no 4 stroking under load, good free flowing exhaust and correct gearing for the riding conditions.

what tooth count sprocket are you running on wheel?

Have you downsized carb jet?

Are you running stock unmodified kit supplied exhaust?

port matching exhaust header pipe as well as possibly and removing some of the back pressue of the unit by either removing internals and drilling extra holes in end cap will increase low down pulling power, I have had engines that would barely mpull me up some of the hills I ride, butby doing nothing but getting the exhaust flowing freely those same engines would get me to the top while still maintaining a good speed several mph above stall speed.

in my experience a well tuned carb along with an exhaust that flows well is the key to having good hill climbing power when the gearing is right.

Since you aren't a heavy weightrider it sjouldnt be hard to get your bike to pull you up most hills if its set up and tuned right.

 

[boxcar]

Well ....
Once the engine is broken in properly you will gain power. As your mix will change and your engine will loosen up. Trust me.
A good spark plug ( NGK BPR 6 HIX or Champion L 86 C )
I run a Dellorto clone carb on my bike and also have a bike with the stock NT.
The Dellorto is a much better carb and will add power.
You will have to jet either carb to your final engine and altitude requirements....
A pipe will help ( choose your brand and type ) I build my own....
As others have stated an expensive expansion chamber is probably not what you need.... But may help in cooling.
I highly recommend a Fred head ( more for cooling than raw HP ) but it will add power.
You are after all in Panama..... Hot and humid can spell disaster to a 2 stroke....
An Allen bolt kit from Sick Bike Parts and some lock tight will solve the bolt loss problem.
You can also peddle when the engine starts to lug.... You'd be surprised how little you have to work to climb the steepest hills if you help that little engine out once in a while.
Last but not least : no more prolonged runs until the engine is broke in.
Keep them short and very your throttle ( don't maintain a constant speed ).
After a tank at your break in mix , then some longer trips are ok. After 2 tanks at break in mix. Change to your final mix and ride it like you stole it.....

 

[Panama]

Thanks for the tips and the admonition not to go all crazy (again) before the break-in period is over . The full route I need to travel is 7.5 km with an elevation range of 240 m. This equates out to a 3.2% grade...but that's averaging out all the hills. The first really big hill that I couldn't pull off is approximately a 7% grade over 300 m. The worst one on the route might be the one shortly after it, running a nearly 10% grade over 800 m. So really, I guess I don't so much mean "a hill" as I mean "a climb." These are all crude estimates using Google Earth but regardless, Central Panama is pretty rugged. I had only been to the field site for one day before this trip and I forgot how steep it was, otherwise, I might have tried a different engine (if at all!).

I found this site helpful and amusing when trying to figure out what constitutes a "steep hill": http://www.fatcyclist.com/2012/08/01/a-handy-guide-to-climbing-grades/

Regarding my current components: Right now, everything is stock. The sprocket is a 44T.

Thanks to Boxcar and 2door for the reminder that it's still a BIKE and it has pedals. Was I pedaling at all as I attempted that hill? (No, of course not, I'm a newb with a shiny new toy that goes "vroom"). I've been wishing for a while now that I had purchased a mountain bike for my situation but I was clueless when I started this odyssey a month ago and bought a single speed beach cruiser. But any pedal power at all would certainly help.

I'll see if I can get the replacement bolts and Loctite this afternoon so I can continue the break-in period.

 

[2door]

Panama,
Loved the hill climbing blog. Fun reading. Thanks.

As for Loctite, thread locking compound. There are a number of us who highly suggest against using the red, or permanent variety. Loctite product #262 comes to mind. Even though a great product you'd be better off with a non-permanent thread locking compound. The red stuff works too good in that it requires the application of heat to remove a fastener after the compound has cured. There's no need for such security. The blue Loctite, product #242 will do everything you want and still allow things to be disassembled without heating.

Proper torque is also important. Don't under-do it, but also you don't want to break things. Those little 6mm fasteners can only take so much, about 60 inch pounds will suffice. 8mm fasteners can take 120 to 140, some say 160 inch pounds. I wouldn't suggest exceeding 160. You're pushing your luck.

Recheck engine fasteners after a couple of heat/cool cycles to make sure they are still at their installed torque.

Good luck.

Tom

 

[fatdaddy]

Like 2door said, a bigger rear sprocket will do it. And yeah, it aint against the law to peddle it anytime ya want.
fatdaddy.

 

[Panama]

Remarkably, I found the exact bolts I needed to replace at the tiny neighborhood hardware store. The bike is back together and I'm preparing for some more breaking in. I couldn't find Loctite Blue, so I've got duct tape over the bolt holes and I'm planning to check them regularly for loosening after runs which I will keep shorter and flatter than what I attempted on my first day out (it was fun though...)

I did more research on sprockets and gearing up to a 50+ tooth seems like it would help substantially. I'm encouraged reading about the tricky routes others ride regularly and the successes they have had with bigger sprockets. I don't really care about top speed; I'm just trying to make the trip to and from my field site efficient and cost-effective. There is a chance I can order a sprocket and get it shipped in time to my wife, who is coming to visit me in Panama next week. I'm looking at these two:

http://www.gasbike.net/56-Tooth-Chain-Sprocket.html
http://www.bikeberry.com/engine-kit-parts/drivetrain/54-tooth-sprocket.html

Does anyone think it matters much between these two?

Also, this field trip is coming to an end quickly and I will have to store the bike for 3 months until I come back for more research. Already? Yeah, the bike was supposed to be running a month ago but instead I finally got it sorted in the last two weeks of the trip! Any tips about months' long storage?

I'm attaching a picture just because maybe some of you who have helped me get this far would find it gratifying. My friend here, who has some gas bike experience, dubbed it the "Nazgul Azul" (Lord of the Rings reference plus the Spanish word for "Blue"). I'll admit, the "Naz" does look pretty cool.

 

[2door]

That's a fine looking build, Panama. You've done well. Congratulations.
It's very clean and a lot of attention to detail.

As for storage; unless your fuel mix contains a stabilizer you'll want to drain the fuel from the tank and carburetor. 2 cyle mix has a relatively short shelf life and doesn't store well in fuel tanks or carbs.

Depending on where the bike will be stored you'll want to assure it is kept dry and out of the elements. Of course security against theft is another concern. Other than those things storing for several months shouldn't present you with any problems.

Sprockets: As long as the sprocket is compatible with your adapter, (rag joint) either of the ones you linked should work for you. Of course you'll have to go through that process of installing it again but you suceeded once and know how to do it. Naturally a bigger sprocket might require a slightly longer chain so plan on adding a couple of links if necessary.

Hope this helps and answers some questions for you. Good luck, have fun and please, ride safe.

Tom

 

[fatdaddy]

I did notice that one was flat and the other concave. I would use the one that matches your present sprocket. That way the alighnment should stay exactly the same. Standard kit sprockets are usually concave. Rarely do ya see a flat sprocket come in a kit. And with only 2 teeth difference I dont think yer gonna see much difference in performance between the two. So probably the 56 tooth from Gasbike. But I'm guessing you have the concave or offset sprocket on now.
fatdaddy.

 

[mapbike]

A 48T sprocket should give all kinds of hill pulling power as long as all other things are set up for best performance.

At the link I listed below you can get a dished 48T for less than $13 and he also has a 54T and even bigger ones, personally I wouldn't go bigger than 48T unless you would be happy with a top speed of 20mph or less.

http://thatsdax.com/ENGINE_KIT_PARTS_PAGE_2.html

Best wishes Panama, hope you get it all worked out, nice looking bike.