66cc Full Suspension Snow Tricycle

[kdaddy1980]

i need a vehicle that will carry some groceries up hills and through the snow. so thats why im building this trike. the thing that will be great about it is the full suspension.
im using a 54 tooth sprocket to gain torque, no need for speed on ice..or lugging a basket full of cargo up steep hills.

it will have a single axle rear end with backstop brakes on the rear and v brakes on the front,
a flat rear tank that mounts to the rear post. and a turn signal/ brakelight/ horn kit.
im using an old antique steel milkcrate for the groceries, and whatever i cant fit in that will go in my backpack.
im keeping the front derailer intact to shift through the front gears only while pedaling ill have to modify a rear derailer as a tensioner

the trike axle i got from my buddy had a backstop brake that was modified with another sprocket the same size on the opposite side and then drove the left wheel only and had a seperate axle floating on the right.

my idea is to use a single axle which i purchased already, and use the two sprocket combo to drive both the pedals and the motor. the case needs modified though to fit the big 54 tooth sprocket.
the mounting of the wheels has got me pretty much stumped though, i need to fit the hubs on a 5/8 inch axle somehow.

then to top this thing off ill fab some studded snow tires and let em rip. im hoping the 26 inch tire 54 tooth sprocket combo will get me enough torque, if not ill think about smaller wheels maybe 24 inch.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Snow, - that's something I know nothing about, - but your trike certainly looks like it will be a strong build.

 

[kdaddy1980]

thanks, ... and yeah it will have to be strong and sturdy to make it through the ohio winter the past couple years it hasnt really snowed as much but maybe its saving up for a big one. ill be ready for it. ill be making some steel shields to cover the motor and maybe along the bottom of the bike to keep the ice out.

 

[kdaddy1980]

this is a picture of the end of the axle. this end piece fit right into the hub and the threads stuck out about and inch and a big cap nut fit on the end to hold the wheel on.

i tried to get the axle out of it, heated it til it was glowing hot and still wouldnt come out of there. you can see how far i moved it from the guide pin hole.

but still wouldnt come out. i trashed the hub and wheel trying to get it out it was jammed in there pretty good .

i have two other coaster brake hubs similar to what was on it but this hub adapter piece is too big to fit in both of them..even if i could get the adapter off the axle it would not fit in the new hubs.

can anyone show me how they mounted their rear wheels? im working with a 5/8 steel rod for an axle. i can thread the ends of it down at the garage.

 

[caduceus]

I machined plastic bushings with an ID of .750" and an OD of 26mm to adapt my Northern Tools Wheels to the axle of a Peerless Differential. Then filed a half round in the wheel hubs that mated to a 1/4" X 1 1/2" roll pin which was driven through the axle. The wheels/hubs then held on by 5/16 X 24 bolts. I'm not too sure on your setup from your photographs what you're trying to accomplish.

If you're trying to adapt the 5/8" axle to a larger hub I'd suggest an agricultural weld sprocket. In a lot of ag applications they have to use different sized hubs and sprockets, so implement dealers sell sprockets and hubs separately. If you're looking to make an adapter you could get a weld sprocket for a 5/8" shaft and have a machine shop turn it down to the exact size you need to adapt your hubs. I'll see if I can google up some pictures. You'll have to clean that axle up with a lot of emery cloth and work.

Like I said, I machined mine out of phenolic plastic using a drill press and a series of concentric hole saws. I made us a set of bushings of Aluminum but I'd have to have a machine shop turn out the bores on them to fit exactly. Either that or buy my own metal lathe.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

this is a picture of the end of the axle. this end piece fit right into the hub and the threads stuck out about and inch and a big cap nut fit on the end to hold the wheel on.

i tried to get the axle out of it, heated it til it was glowing hot and still wouldnt come out of there. you can see how far i moved it from the guide pin hole.

but still wouldnt come out. i trashed the hub and wheel trying to get it out it was jammed in there pretty good .

i have two other coaster brake hubs similar to what was on it but this hub adapter piece is too big to fit in both of them..even if i could get the adapter off the axle it would not fit in the new hubs.

can anyone show me how they mounted their rear wheels? im working with a 5/8 steel rod for an axle. i can thread the ends of it down at the garage.

You can get that steel bushing off the axle by spilting it lengthways with a hacksaw. This is a trick my Dad showed me some years ago and if you're careful you won't even mark the axle. Once you have the bushing cut through lay it on something solid like a steel block and drive a cold chisel into the slot you've cut with a decent sized engineer's hammer. Works every time

 

[kdaddy1980]

this thing used to have two axles, and only one was driven by the pedals.
if i put a motor on it like that and only drove one wheel id probably would only be capable be doing donuts in the snow.lol

so, i got a single axle rod to fit into the axle tubes to drive both rear wheels.

the sheet metal in the picture is going to be used to build a bigger case to fit the big 54 tooth sprocket and ill just cut holes and weld the tubes in like they were originally.

the old axle shown here is stuffed into one of the regular old coaster brake hubs but it only goes in so far because its smaller than the old hub.

i cant find a machine shop around here that can turn them on a lathe to make them smaller to fit these regular coaster brake hubs. so im trying to figure out another way.

heres a better pic of the whole setup ive just got the sprocket stuck in the cardboard box and the post is just ziptied on ill bolt weld and brace it as needed but just for demonstration purposes i set it up like this.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

You could of course build you own lathe, - and I'm not being funny I'm completely serious.

http://makezine.com/projects/the-multimachine-150-12-swing-metal-lathemilldrill/

Even a basic 'pole' type treadle lathe made from scrapwood would do what you want. All you need is something to hold the axle, - and even wooden 'V' blocks, a piece of steel strapping and a couple of wood screws would do that, - and a means to rotate the axle so you can work a file against the steel bushing until it's a nice fit into the coaster hubs you're using. You don't even need to use a spingy wooden pole to provide the return travel, a scrap trampoline spring or two or three in series will work fine for that.
It's amazing what you can learn to do when you're smallholding on a island a good distance from the mainland and you don't have much money

 

[tooljunkie]

post up on the local buy and sell website,maybe someone has a lathe in their basement,or like in my case the garage.i also have welders and a hydraulic press.
just for hobby purposes.
i build stuff all the time.all your struggles will get easier the more you build,figuring ways to get around the materials available to you.
the gearing looks good,myself i would run a jackshaft and gear it even lower.
i wouldnt try the snow thing myself,as the roads up here get drifted in pretty good.

 

[Stormsorter]

this thing used to have two axles, and only one was driven by the pedals.
if i put a motor on it like that and only drove one wheel id probably would only be capable be doing donuts in the snow.lol

so, i got a single axle rod to fit into the axle tubes to drive both rear wheels.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but to make a turn both wheels must be able to spin at different speeds. To have 2 wheel drive on a trike you need a differential of some kind like caduceus used in this thread http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=49598.

 

[kdaddy1980]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but to make a turn both wheels must be able to spin at different speeds. To have 2 wheel drive on a trike you need a differential of some kind like caduceus used in this thread http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=49598.

well wouldnt the wheel on the outside just slip a little as it went around a turn? what about in the snow? what if i hooked one wheel up to a freewheel sprocket?

 

[tooljunkie]

i have 4 or 6 of those peerless differentials,in scrapped lawn tractors that were given to me.i guess i should keep them.looks like they could come in handy for trike builds.
i do know that a solid axle is difficult to drive on hard surfaces,the slippery surfaces are a little more forgiving.
one big issue is making driveline solid enough that things dont break on hard turns.
the old honda three wheelers had solid axles,when making a left turn,you had to lean right or it wanted to go straight.depending on the rear wheel spacing,the farther apart,the tougher it is to turn.

 

[kdaddy1980]

the old honda three wheelers had solid axles,when making a left turn,you had to lean right or it wanted to go straight.depending on the rear wheel spacing,the farther apart,the tougher it is to turn.

ive got 31 inches from wheel to wheel .ive seen so many tricycles online with solid axles. seems like they have no problems turning, what would be the difference with my trike? i mean how difficult could it really be? considering i will have maybe 25 pounds of cargo on the back wheels. the hubs and sprockets will be welded solid to the axle, so im thinking that they should hold up through the turns ok, although it might wear the tires out a bit if im turning a lot on dry pavement.

 

[caduceus]

ive got 31 inches from wheel to wheel .ive seen so many tricycles online with solid axles. seems like they have no problems turning, what would be the difference with my trike? i mean how difficult could it really be? considering i will have maybe 25 pounds of cargo on the back wheels. the hubs and sprockets will be welded solid to the axle, so im thinking that they should hold up through the turns ok, although it might wear the tires out a bit if im turning a lot on dry pavement.

Heck, give it a try. It'll work totally awesome on slick pavement. For the hobby-stock lap races we would always weld up the spiders in the differentials to give us two-wheel traction. But that was on wet clay or county fairground tracks. Going around street corners the inner rear tire would squeal in protest. I know that around here the streets are as often dry as they are slick in the winter. So I used a differential. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[kdaddy1980]

so i figured out how to mount these hubs on the axle, just a bit of luck actually rooting around in the plumbing section of home depot.

the adapters are simple and should be effective. im using plain steel pipe with some steel fittings that just happen to fit right in the cups of the hub on each side.(after a little grinding with my dremel) and the pipe slips right over the axle like butter.

i will weld the nuts onto the hubs and also weld the pipe to the nut and the axle, enough welds should hold it firm.

im thinking about maybe drilling through the axle a using a roll pin through the pipe and axle to keep the pipe from slipping if the welds break. that might be a little overkill though . what do you think? or would drilling the axle so close to the end weaken the strength of it? i have a couple of 1/4 inch roll pins i could use.

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Would you believe that today I was at the milking machine supply store (I live in a rural dairy farming district) and I was looking at exactly the same fittings and thinking how useful they could be to use on a trike conversion.

I don't think you'll need the roll pins as the weld should hold everything just fine. If for some reason the welds get enough stress on them to break a roll pin isn't going to help much to stop that from happening.

 

[kdaddy1980]

I don't think you'll need the roll pins as the weld should hold everything just fine. If for some reason the welds get enough stress on them to break a roll pin isn't going to help much to stop that from happening.

well, i would say im a pretty decent weldor and i've got access to a excellent welder so i should be able to lay down some good beads around these hubs and them being screwed in as well should help.the weld onto the axle will probably melt the nut and the pipe together as well ,and secure them both to the axle.

 

[kdaddy1980]

got my hubs welded on and built the wheels for them. i used heavy duty gauge spokes on the rear and regular ones on the front, still need to paint the hubs before i actually take this out in the weather. speaking of which it snowed today for about 20 minutes..yep winter is officially begun in ohio. its cold -ridin time lol hopefully i can get this thing built before it really starts freezin over.

this is what it looks like as of today, startin to look like a trike. i have a lot of work to do still, bend the steel for the sprocket case ,weld it, get the motor mount fastened permanent, get the sprockets positioned and welded to the axle. cut the axle to size, the whole 9 yards.

 

[maniac57]

I'd be careful welding that axle. Welding creates weak zones around the weld and this may lead to breakage. I'd suggest only welding the nut to the axle with a small tack rather than a full circle weld. It should still hold fine unless you're using a blown big block for power....
Great ingenuity by the way!

 

[Intrepid Wheelwoman]

Your axle is looking good kdaddy. Nice work.