Two items that could save your life

Never run either in thousands of miles. Never threw a chain, or broke a spoke.

The rag joint actually make lining up the sprockets pretty easy.
 
To be honest, a rag joint isn't all that hard to line up properly, it's a matter of putting in a little bit of effort and will save you trouble and the truth is anybody can do it, if they say they can't then they either don't have the intelligence and shouldn't own one of these bicycles or are just lazy and looking for an excuse. That being said,once you start doing the high power builds (large 4 strokes, morinis) the standard rag joint becomes a hazzard to use and a hub adapter becomes a necessity. As fas as the spring vs standard tensioner, there is literally almost no point in arguing because it will massively vary from bike to bike, location and geography as well.
 
doesn't really matter to me as adapters only fit coaster brakes and I refuse to build those

might look at one if it came with the kit & fit safer wheels
 
karryhunt said:
If you want to eliminate 90% of your build problems these two items are a must

Hub adapter with sprocket
Kip Springer chain tensioner

Yes these two items cost nearly as much as the entire kit but the amount of headaches it will save you in the end will greatly out weigh the cost.
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It solved 90% of YOUR build problems, thanks for sharing your solution.

90% of my build 'problems' are solved with an SBP front motor mount and a dual pull brake lever for $25.
 
karryhunt said:
I think your wrong on several points.

Getting the sprockets lined up with the rag adapter is a real
problem and furthermore driving the bike by the spokes is flinstone technology. Using the hub adapter allows for lateral adjustment to get perfect alignment between the the sprockets. Even if your able to get perfect alignment initially with the rag, its just a matter of before everything goes haywire.

The Kip Springer tensioner with the optional 10 tooth sprocket is absolutely trouble free after 2000 miles.
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I will not divulge the maker of the adapter. This isn't a product review.

What I will tell you is I have two identical bikes. One has a rag joint, the other a hub adapter. The adapter equipped bike has a 'roughness' to the ride that I couldn't account for. Same frame, same, wheels, tires, engine and engine mounts. Same tire inflation, same seating arrangment. I was curious and suspected the solidly mounted adapter as the culprit. I switched rear wheels on these bikes. The roughness followed the adapter.

Its as if I can feel the chain engaging the rear sprocket. My theory is that the solid attachment to the hub can, on some rims and bike frame designs, transmit the chain to sprocket engagement. The rag joint will absorb it.

As for driving the wheel with spokes verses the hub, that isn't a valid argument. Either way you are ultimately driving the wheel with the spokes. It doesn't make any difference how you attach the sprocket. The spokes transmit the rotational force to the rim and the ground.

Tom
 
If you take your time and assemble a rag joint well you can get thousands of trouble free miles from them, I am at the 2,500 mark right now with mine (that beats you by 500 miles, with no sign of trouble in the future, I have to assume the rag joint and #41 chain will outlast my motor by far) . Also, if you can get away with running without a chain tensioner all together that is your best bet IHMO. It's been over 2,000 miles since I installed a #41 chain and ditched the tensioner, haven't had a single problem, haven't had to adjust anything, my chain drive has been rock solid (without the two expensive upgrades you mention).
 
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crassius said:
I'm with maniac57 on this - wouldn't bother with either of those. If after several tries, one can't put the chain on right, then perhaps it isn't work one is suited for; take it to a mechanic.
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After Handlebars and Brakes I say Sprocket Adapter also. I don't use tensioners so Il'd say adapter and #41 machine chain @ tractor supply.
 
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nightcruiser said:
If you take your time and assemble a rag joint well you can get thousands of trouble free miles from them, I am at the 2,500 mark right now with mine (that beats you by 500 miles, with no sign of trouble in the future, I have to assume the rag joint and #41 chain will outlast my motor by far) . Also, if you can get away with running without a chain tensioner all together that is your best bet IHMO. It's been over 2,000 miles since I installed a #41 chain and ditched the tensioner, haven't had a single problem, haven't had to adjust anything, my chain drive has been rock solid (without the two expensive upgrades you mention).
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There's the key to it all right there... #41 chain enough to do 2 bikes for $20.
Also pick up 1/2 links (Connecting link) line that chain strait as an arrow. 41 chain has lots of latteral forgiveness n hasn't chewed op a case cover yet I doin close to 5000 mi. never a drive prob.
 
This can be done well with no problems. It seems primitive...I Built several rag joints. the 14g spokes on that side after a time will fail. No probs yet with 12s.
 
2door said:
I have two identical bikes. One has a rag joint, the other a hub adapter. The adapter equipped bike has a 'roughness' to the ride that I couldn't account for.

Tom
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A rag joint is a natural 'Cush' buffer between the motor and the wheel. It takes out a little bit of the 2-stroke motor pulse and jolts from sudden power changes like dropping the clutch from a fast coast with wide open throttle.

As for spring tensioners I find them useful for shift kit builds when the only way to adjust a chain is to move the motor.
 
Yeah all makes sense. Don't ya think it could be troublesome with small older spokes. I been thru 3 wheels in th very beginning due to spoke breakage at the nipple with rag joint on tht side-- I see the continual reversing of the torque ACC/DECC twinking them little 14G spokes til one gives feels like a dog tug under your ass then another then another then It's dangerous.
 
allen standley said:
Yeah all makes sense. Don't ya think it could be troublesome with small older spokes. I been thru 3 wheels in th very beginning due to spoke breakage at the nipple with rag joint on tht side-- I see the continual reversing of the torque ACC/DECC twinking them little 14G spokes til one gives feels like a dog tug under your ass then another then another then It's dangerous.
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That is why the instructions call for 12 ga spokes. 14 will work, but will tear you to hel1 when they go out.




(I, for one, have stock 12 ga spokes)


12GA SPOKES FTW! :D
 
What instructions... Got 4 bikes rite now 2 rag joints 2 sprocket adapters. I'll use adapters over tire sidewall any day. If you use a sprocket adapt with 14 g spokes you'll be ok. Your working 36 spokes not 18 with an adapter. you can get the adapter for a freewheel @ pirate Any more input on this? Sprocket adapter with #41 chain = dead on alignment and a reliable trouble free drive line. 14 builds and counting. My input submitted.
 
I'm all for adapters if you want to spend the money to make things easier, I just don't thinkbuilding the rag joint is all that hard, and it is perfectly adequate if done right. Mine is easily over 10k miles with nary a broken spoke or problem of any kind. Even after removing the stock 44tooth and replacing it with a 41tooth the kit rag joint has been dead solid reliable. I'm currently on my 6th or 7th tire, and 5th or 6th set of brake pads on the Pig...
Best of all, it doesn't cost $100 bucks.
 
Dude, quit trying to be Jesus. Let people do what they want. Several known pro builders say the rag joint is just fine as long as you aren't subjecting it to the abuse of a Morini.


Let it rest, bro.


And knock it off with the annoying blue text.
 
My life has nothing to do with this discussion. The ragjoint is not going to kill me.
You spend your hard earned cash however you choose.
Just don't expect me to take you seriously when I know from years of experience you are wrong.
 
karryhunt said:
Is that what you value your life?
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I think you need to calm down. you are creating a massive amount of fuss over nothing. The chances are hes not going to die because of the choice to run a rag joint over a hub adapter, your being stupid and it would be great if you would leave.
 
My current bike is a 98cc cruiser. I just wouldn't trust a rag joint to the power of a 98cc 4 stroke. I bought a Howard adapter for $75 shipped and the components to convert my old kit tensioner to spring-loaded for $20, don't remember if there were shipping charges or not. The Howard adapter accepts the kit sprocket, and I already had an almost new sprocket. There is a good reason I did not want to use a rag joint for my cruiser. I had a heavy-duty wheel with 12g spokes and a rag joint on my two stroke bike, and after a few months or so, the sprocket would start to wobble and then the wheel would wobble. My rim was not badly warped, so I attributed the wobble to misalignment of the sprocket. I used nylon lock nuts on my rag joint, so I don't understand why it came out of alignment. I replaced the rag and the mounting bolts, and got a new chain and it reduced the wobble. But I knew when I got ready to build my 4 stroke cruiser that a hub adapter would virtually eliminate any chance of misalignment or wobble. So far I've been right. After two months, the bike feels exactly the same as the day I drove it home from my buddy's house. Haven't had any problems with the spring loaded tensioner so far either. Are these items necessary for one's safety? I wouldn't go that far. Do they cause any safety issues? None that I am personally aware of after personal experience. But what I do think is that they do make the build easier and also make for less maintenance overall, and that is worth every penny to me.
 
"I used nylon lock nuts on my rag joint, so I don't understand why it came out of alignment. I replaced the rag and the mounting bolts, and got a new chain and it reduced the wobble. "
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My kit came with the small nylon locknuts, I used them and reused them which apparently you're not supposed to do with nylon locknuts. When you use a locknut and take it off, the nylon can get damaged especially if you put a considerable amount of force tightening it down. I know ive done this and scratched my head about it, and it makes more sense why other people would have this problem.

Also i stack them: bolt-washer-sprocket-rag-(spoke)-rag-metal plate-lockwasher- standard nut now.

I have a 34 kings sprocket and it lined up perfectly on both wheels there is not a lot of space for it to move as in the other ebay or kit sprockets i have the center hole is smaller.

I think the rag joint is a bit flexible but if your tolerances are pretty tight everywhere else you wont see things shifting around much.
If the rag joint scares you, shell out some money and buy a hub adapter and or use a smaller gear and lower your torque. but for reference Im running a 4.5 hp arrow motor all the way out to 35-40 mph sustained, all the added torque hasnt moved my rag joint or snapped my spokes and ive been riding cross town for months dumping the clutch and everything.

In my case, my preference is to trust the rag joint until i see evidence that it can't handle the torque. In others cases, they don't want to worry, they buy the upgrade. For some people, their life may depend on buying a sprocket adapter, but for me, I'm smiling and riding on some cheap rubber.
 
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