4GT with tapered engine output shaft?

[GearNut]

I am hoping to get feedback and any warnings or precautions from any current or past owners of these.
I received my 4GT kit from GasBike today.
I am a very disappointed with them now.
They advertise it as coming with a straight shaft HuaSheng engine.
It is actually the tapered shaft engine.

Other than the tack welded clutch bell which I have read it likes to break off, what other issues are these known for having?
It has the 12 tooth "upgraded" one way sprocket and solid 100 tooth large tranny pulley.

Should I return it and get a refund from them and buy what I want from Bicycle-Engines? I used PayPal so a refund should not be that hard to get.

Am I sweating the small stuff and should I just run what I got, it'll be fine?

I do not want to make another build and have the tranny fail from some stupid half thought out factory part failing.

My EZM is bulletproof and I love it, I just wanted to experience the other highly respected tranny and have a shifter kit on it too.
From what I have learned, you can't do a shifter kit with an EZM or else I would have just gotten another one from scotto-.

Thank you for your time!
GN

 

[Desert Rat]

IMHO harbor freight and ezm
get your money back while you can

 

[scotto-]

OK Nutters, here's my feelings on the HS w/tapered shaft and your situation.

The first 49cc HS I bought was a 4G kit from bicycle-engines.com and it had the tapered shaft. It was fitted with the 100t big pulley (no one-way bearing) and the 11t freewheel output sprocket. That is a fine set-up with the exception of the very cheap and cheesy clutch bell......mine snapped after 600miles or so. It was most fortunate that I just happened to have two super HD clutch bells (only needed one) of the exact dimensions that came with 46cc GoPed engines that I had purchased years before. I couldn't believe it, problem solved!

The 3-shoe clutches that came on the tapered shaft HS's have held up just fine for thousands of miles. They are the same as many pocketbikes came with and I saw them as cheap as $9 when Dave's Discount motors was discontinuing them. They work fine for me, not so for a few others that I know of.

With a shift kit installed on this set-up, I think you will be very happy with it so I say go for it!

As far as a shift kit not working on an ezm.......ummm, really? It can be done, just like anything else if you're willing to fabricate just a little bit. It really ain't rocket science.......it just isn't

Call me with any questions Dan....you know me

scotto-

I am hoping to get feedback and any warnings or precautions from any current or past owners of these.
I received my 4GT kit from GasBike today.
I am a very disappointed with them now.
They advertise it as coming with a straight shaft HuaSheng engine.
It is actually the tapered shaft engine.

Other than the tack welded clutch bell which I have read it likes to break off, what other issues are these known for having?
It has the 12 tooth "upgraded" one way sprocket and solid 100 tooth large tranny pulley.

Should I return it and get a refund from them and buy what I want from Bicycle-Engines? I used PayPal so a refund should not be that hard to get.

Am I sweating the small stuff and should I just run what I got, it'll be fine?

I do not want to make another build and have the tranny fail from some stupid half thought out factory part failing.

My EZM is bulletproof and I love it, I just wanted to experience the other highly respected tranny and have a shifter kit on it too.
From what I have learned, you can't do a shifter kit with an EZM or else I would have just gotten another one from scotto-.

Thank you for your time!
GN

 

[locutus_1]

first pull the clutch off.. lube the shafts where the shoes connect scuff the bell scuff the pads replace the springs with smaller winding ones stock ones arent meant for riders just water pumps and generators..

when placing the clutch back in its a tapered shaft use red lock tight on the shaft let it sit 24 hours before putting the tranny back on.. so it dries.. once dry the shaft will be locked other wise it will slip over time..

when you need to remov e it use a blow torch heat up the part where it connects to the tapered shaft dont hit the springs or you will need new ones..

lock tight the whole damn bike stem to stern red on critical things blue on small stuff

 

[The_Aleman]

The problem with the tapered-shaft 4G is that it's so wide - the ideal SBP setup has the engine low as possible. If my 4G was a tapered shaft, the SBP cranks would not clear at all. The clutch bell sticks out quite a bit farther on tapered-shaft models.

The "5/8" engine takes the Stage III, Honda-style 4G and the Q-Matic by default. You will have to adjust the cover mounting holes on a Honda-style 4G,
the cranks will just clear. I'd definitely pick this engine as opposed to the tapered-shaft.

 

[Desert Rat]

first pull the clutch off.. lube the shafts where the shoes connect scuff the bell scuff the pads replace the springs with smaller winding ones stock ones arent meant for riders just water pumps and generators..

when placing the clutch back in its a tapered shaft use red lock tight on the shaft let it sit 24 hours before putting the tranny back on.. so it dries.. once dry the shaft will be locked other wise it will slip over time..

when you need to remov e it use a blow torch heat up the part where it connects to the tapered shaft dont hit the springs or you will need new ones..

lock tight the whole damn bike stem to stern red on critical things blue on small stuff

I'll probably get reamed for this but take any advice here with a grain of salt
and sure go ahead and put a torch on a hardened shaft tempering it back
to soft steel!

 

[GearNut]

I'll probably get reamed for this but take any advice here with a grain of salt
and sure go ahead and put a torch on a hardened shaft tempering it back
to soft steel!

Desert Rat, I really appreciate your concern and in alot of situations your assessment is correct, however...
Loctite 271 Red looses it's "lock" at temperatures above 300F. If one were to heat the clutch hub to 325F or even 350F the Loctite bond will have been severely compromised and the assembly can be disassembled by normal means (you still need a puller). That isn't anywhere near the temperature hot enough to affect the original temper of the crankshaft or the clutch hub.

 

[Desert Rat]

Desert Rat, I really appreciate your concern and in alot of situations your assessment is correct, however...
Loctite 271 Red looses it's "lock" at temperatures above 300F. If one were to heat the clutch hub to 325F or even 350F the Loctite bond will have been severely compromised and the assembly can be disassembled by normal means (you still need a puller). That isn't anywhere near the temperature hot enough to affect the original temper of the crankshaft or the clutch hub.

with all do respect! remember most the people seeking advice wouldn't know
the dif between propane, map, or acetylene, much less use a torch
but what would I know about metal? only 25 years+ as a machinist,
custom knifemaker, 3 bikes built still running my 2 stroke after 8000 miles.
but I do sure read about how many here are burning thru motors LOL
oh and just how hot is the tip of a torch?

 

[Desert Rat]

with all do respect! remember most the people seeking advice wouldn't know
the dif between propane, map, or acetylene, much less use a torch
but what would I know about metal? only 25 years+ as a machinist,
custom knifemaker, 3 bikes built still running my 2 stroke after 8000 miles.
but I do sure read about how many here are burning thru motors LOL
oh and just how hot is the tip of a torch?

But if you do want to heat it up why not stick a keyed sleeve over shaft
stick center bolt in and while running indicator over shaft tac weld
that solves all the problems with the short shaft LOL

 

[GearNut]

And all due respect to you too sir!

How hot is the tip of a torch?
Gimme it and I'll lick it and tell you. Just don't light it first!
LOL!
What gas or combo are we burning here? Has alot to do with the temp.
I usually use MAPP gas. I have a digital infrared temp. gun to tell me the temp. of what I am cooking.

 

[GearNut]

But if you do want to heat it up why not stick a keyed sleeve over shaft
stick center bolt in and while running indicator over shaft tac weld
that solves all the problems with the short shaft LOL

I think that I am going to just keep the stubby shaft kit and build a different bike with it sometime down the road. A good friend of mine needs cheap, reliable transportation and I bet he would buy into a build with it.
I will order a true 5/8 shaft kit from a different vendor of whom I have had better previous experiences with and use it on this build.
Live and learn...

 

[Desert Rat]

And all due respect to you too sir!

How hot is the tip of a torch?
Gimme it and I'll lick it and tell you. Just don't light it first!
LOL!
What gas or combo are we burning here? Has alot to do with the temp.
I usually use MAPP gas. I have a digital infrared temp. gun to tell me the temp. of what I am cooking.

I will tip my hat to you,sir You corrected my not so obvious error: MAPP
or even MAPD and I know your more familiar with the tools of the trade
I've followed some of your work, Nice.

but my original point stands. A lot of newbs here read that do it improperly
for lack of knowledge and wonder why the problems creep up worse!

I just pulled out my HF pulley puller bam no problem, oh an I am in the middle
of making a adapter for the short shaft, just need to find a lathe to use for a
few minutes.
I was thinking of some thing like this air bike next, Something along these lines with pedals, but first have to finish my
3rd build a hf 79 and ez tranny, ctv, whatever LOL




so I was just giving a word of caution " Advice is often worth what it costs"

 

[scotto-]

I will tip my hat to you,sir You corrected my not so obvious error: MAPP

What are all those blue strings for? A shower curtain?

 

[BarryT]

I too had really poor luck with those kit gearboxes. The reasoning is that I was asking the poor little clutch to pull around a 250+ pounder. I'm in the parts gathering mode right now for my next build with a straight shaft HS142 using this:
http://www.bmikarts.com/Torque-Converter-Backplate--Stamped-Steel-_p_1017.html

I ordered this plate, a bag of gears, bearings, & jackshaft from Staton and a heavy duty centrifugal clutch from Go Carts USA. I'll post how it goes in the very near future.