big bore carb and cam from terry blow

[Greybeard]

The duration, or the lenght of time a valve is open, is measured in degrees. This cam has 210 degrees of duration. A "stroke" on an engine is measured as 180 degrees. This means the valves are "off the seat" approximately 15 degrees before the beginning of their stroke, as well as after. Measuring at BDC (bottom dead center) always gives you one of the valves off the seat. The exhaust valve starts to open 15 degrees before BDC on the power stroke, the intake valve valve starts to open 15 degrees before TDC on the exhaust stroke, the exhaust valve finishes closing 15 degrees after TDC on the intake stroke, and the intake valve finishes closing approximately 15 degrees into the compression stroke. Adding to this is the ramp that starts the valve lifter moving during the .008 before the valve moves.
Again, the only place that both valves are closed, and not on a ramp, that you can be assured of, is at TOP DEAD CENTER on the compression stroke. Bottom dead center on any stroke, one of the valves will be "on the cam" and the adjustment will be too wide and the lifters will be noisey.

 

[Greybeard]

The fact that the lifters are noisey says to me, loud and clear that at least one is set wrong.

There is one other way besides what I posted to do this.
Watch the valves as you turn the engine over slowly. When one closes, turn the engine 1/2 turn farther after you are sure it is closed and then set THAT valve. Now turn the engine and watch the other one cycle until it is closed, turn the engine another half turn and adjust THAT one.

Having too much lash will not only cause noise, but will increase "response" at low rpm while loosing power at top end. My take on everything you've said is that the intake valve is loose. Reset the valves. Having valves too loose does damage to valvetrain parts. It's like taking a hammer, holding it 1/2 inch from a board and hitting it. Not much happens. But keep increasing the distance of the swing and the blows are harder. Same with valve train parts that are designed for .008" clearance running at .015". The forces are stronger, parts will fail sooner.
Reset the valves.

 

[Erich_870]

Great information shared so far!

In watching Terry's movies I noticed he talked about wear on the push rods. Is there any benefit from looking at in stalling some kind of bushing, maybe an oil-lite bushing at the top to make up the slack in the push rod hole?

I'm not an engine expert, so maybe the over sized hole is necessary for oiling, but I just thought I'd ask.

Erich

 

[locutus_1]

The fact that the lifters are noisey says to me, loud and clear that at least one is set wrong.

There is one other way besides what I posted to do this.
Watch the valves as you turn the engine over slowly. When one closes, turn the engine 1/2 turn farther after you are sure it is closed and then set THAT valve. Now turn the engine and watch the other one cycle until it is closed, turn the engine another half turn and adjust THAT one.

Having too much lash will not only cause noise, but will increase "response" at low rpm while loosing power at top end. My take on everything you've said is that the intake valve is loose. Reset the valves. Having valves too loose does damage to valvetrain parts. It's like taking a hammer, holding it 1/2 inch from a board and hitting it. Not much happens. But keep increasing the distance of the swing and the blows are harder. Same with valve train parts that are designed for .008" clearance running at .015". The forces are stronger, parts will fail sooner.
Reset the valves.

i belive the honda gx50 has much better tollerances and dosent rattle or make nosie i saw 2 threads and a stock husang video and his lifters made the same noise...

i have yet to ride it and finalize the adjustments i think 007 will be fine it will probably be 006 by the time it heats up

agk guys said they set theirs at 004 now i think the tighter you go the less performance at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle and the looser say 008 to010 you
get better compression since the valves are more tighter to the head so you get better performance at 3/4 to full open

i really go 1/4 to half throttle so i hope it splits the diffrence of power to throttle

 

[locutus_1]

Great information shared so far!

In watching Terry's movies I noticed he talked about wear on the push rods. Is there any benefit from looking at in stalling some kind of bushing, maybe an oil-lite bushing at the top to make up the slack in the push rod hole?

I'm not an engine expert, so maybe the over sized hole is necessary for oiling, but I just thought I'd ask.

Erich

there is no real wear on the rods other than the ball ends

if you look at the rod holes they are super large meaning you have a 1 inch hole and a 1/8 in rod so theres no wear i think the reason for this is if one breaks or bends it wont damage the hole if the hole is tight like on a cars push rods are they it scores and destroys the hole ie.. out of round then you have to get a whole new head with these motors getting a hole new head is impossible since the bottom end and top are all one cast...

adding a bushing well you would have to hone a lip for it to rest in so it wont fly into the hole then make sure its pressure fit make sure the rods are smooth in it..

unless your a machinest and are willling to destroy a motor to find out i woulndt try it..

they are copies of the honda motors which is made in japan and you know japan makes good stuff just like swiss and germany but the chinese just copied it with the huesans and no quality control or tollerances like honda.. so its louder etc

but the motor still lasts.. ive heard 12,000 miles maybe more..thats with proper maintenance.

but still adding something to a motor that dosent have it is a risk.. i heard a guy once added washers to the springs at the bottom to tighted the springs.. not a good idea but he said it works its on this site i think...

with these big bore carbs and cams they are not native to the engine so problems and or unexpected things happen..

me i noticed more noise in my valve train but after 2 days of investigateing i found it to be normal just more loud becuase well i have a raceing cam ground by a go kart company... its not production meaning thousands made... and the carb is off another motor its proven since its from a bigger motor so its not been modified...



im going to be shareing my findings and my thottle lingage set up for these carbs ie the spring and cable setup in a whole new thread... useing only stock parts no need to drill holes or anything and looks hella neat

 

[locutus_1]

i just did a few 10 minute videos on suggestions, for the 4 stroke what ive noticed etc now ill upload to youtube but i remember it takeing forever

is there a way to compress it or something that makes it faster?

i talk about custom things ive done to solve problems.. where as before you had to run all over the net to find one thing i combined them into a handful of videos..
ll have them up tomorrow probably

 

[locutus_1]

terry i took it for a test drive finally.. it ran like it has less power than stock it wants to cut out or heisitate just after throttle and about half way just feels like i have to give it full throttle to do anything

heres what ive done so far removed the stock air filter did the same thing even with free flowing air..cleaned the idle jet same thing but alittle better.. i have yet to clean or drill out the main jet.. i got a dark choclate plug after a hard run...


also some guy on this forum installed your race cam with the arrow pointing at the dimple not how you showed us where you say transfer over..etc. he said his runs fine..

maybe you were wrong and we have a 180 off time motor maybe this is why i got dead spots????

also on these big bore carbs you cant even adjust the mixture screw it only goes 1/4 each way i think ill cut the tab off so you can adjust maybe that will help it did with my stock hs carb...

so tell me what you think on all the points i brought up

 

[scotto-]

Apparently you're not listening to a word others are saying........Greybeard explained it to you plenty and precisely correct....AGK did the same as did I.........what part of TDC and setting your valve lash aren't you getting here??????????? Pay attention too whats being said and follow directions......it really ain't quite rocket science...........honestly!

terry i took it for a test drive finally.. it ran like it has less power than stock it wants to cut out or heisitate just after throttle and about half way just feels like i have to give it full throttle to do anything

heres what ive done so far removed the stock air filter did the same thing even with free flowing air..cleaned the idle jet same thing but alittle better.. i have yet to clean or drill out the main jet.. i got a dark choclate plug after a hard run...


also some guy on this forum installed your race cam with the arrow pointing at the dimple not how you showed us where you say transfer over..etc. he said his runs fine..

maybe you were wrong and we have a 180 off time motor maybe this is why i got dead spots????

also on these big bore carbs you cant even adjust the mixture screw it only goes 1/4 each way i think ill cut the tab off so you can adjust maybe that will help it did with my stock hs carb...

so tell me what you think on all the points i brought up

 

[scotto-]

And if some guy is me......I didn't install his race cam, I installed AGK's race cam.......same, same......don't confuse yourself as you already have.......

scotto-

 

[locutus_1]

Apparently you're not listening to a word others are saying........Greybeard explained it to you plenty and precisely correct....AGK did the same as did I.........what part of TDC and setting your valve lash aren't you getting here??????????? Pay attention too whats being said and follow directions......it really ain't quite rocket science...........honestly!

you know what i dont need to be treated like a child show some respect i have towards you.. your demeaning me... and yes ive paid attention

your insulting my intelligence you really are and its uncalled for...

what i was asking there is an arrow and theres a dimple where terry explained now ive seen 2 versions one the arrow lined up with the dimple on the gear 2nd one the way terry did it its a simple thing all i want to know is if im 180 degrees out that could be the loss of power im getting...

 

[scotto-]

I'm very sorry, that was not my intention.....was only trying to help. You just seem to be listening to Terry's info and blowing off the better (correct) info from Greybeard, AGK and the likes.

Don't take it so personal, my sincere apologies.

scotto-

you know what i dont need to be treated like a child show some respect i have towards you.. your demeaning me... and yes ive paid attention

your insulting my intelligence you really are and its uncalled for...

what i was asking there is an arrow and theres a dimple where terry explained now ive seen 2 versions one the arrow lined up with the dimple on the gear 2nd one the way terry did it its a simple thing all i want to know is if im 180 degrees out that could be the loss of power im getting...

 

[scotto-]

There's a simple way to find out, rotate the cam 180 degrees from where you have it now.

 

[locutus_1]

I'm very sorry, that was not my intention.....was only trying to help. You just seem to be listening to Terry's info and blowing off the better (correct) info from Greybeard, AGK and the likes.

Don't take it so personal, my sincere apologies.

scotto-

actually ive took it all in all the advice,, ok there are 3 diffrent motors

the honda with 5/8 shaft
husang 5/8 shaft
husang tapeerd shaft

the guy that had the arrow pointing right at the dimple was useing a honda he told me

now mine is totally oposite useing the other small dimple on the cam oposite the arrow so the arrow faces up at tdc not down

i dont know about the 5/8 shaft hs

but what i saw was 2 diffrent approaches it dosent make sense the honda would go one way where the one i have would go the other seeing how its a clone..

so this is why im questioning asking everyone i can...

no one has taken all 3 motors even the titan and teared them apart side by side and said hmm this is what this has this is what that has

if i had the money i would by the others and do an extensive tear down and messure and post the results

now with me asking these questions im getting small facts that im pieceing together one person knows one thing another something and so on... so then its easier to find out whats what withough spending a dime on engines just to see the diffrence

when the guy said yea i put the arrow etc on the dot and ran it i said wait a minute it shoulndt run it would be out of time and the valves would hit the piston...

so this made me go hmm if there all clones the hs why make it oposite the honda and why put an arrow clearly visable but install the cam reverse.. maybe its to distiguish it from the honda maybe chinese are backwards people.. maybe the parts that they say are the same really arent..

all this is good info no one has really tried gathering this info im atempting to not to resell or make an engine or what ever.. im doing it because i paid good money for a carb cam and motor around 500 bucks that i cant drive now well i can but it dosent have the power etc.. the valves make a **** of a lot of noise where the honda dosent and suposedly its the same lifter set up

but all this i cant confirm unless someone knows the facts or has pictures or done testing..

is that a good enough explination of what im after i hope so...

as it stands now my motor runs but sputters just after idle and has a hesitation i was thikning i was off with the cam install ive cleaned the jets opened up the air cleaner still the same thing now i think its starved for fuel so im ordereing a bigger jet

process of ilimination any good mechanic would ask questions like this and yes im a mechanic i work on vehicles not small engines im learning something new i ask ask ask and ask diffrent people the same question then make an educated guess.. its how i became a mechanic in the first place i went to school got my degree got my certificatione ase's worked my way up from car washer to mechenic

i acept your apology though.. sorry for the long story but i feel it has to explain better

 

[scotto-]

49cc Huasheng with 5/8" driveshaft in the TDC position.....click on pic to enlarge

 

[MotorBicycleRacing]

actually ive took it all in all the advice,, ok there are 3 diffrent motors

the honda with 5/8 shaft
husang 5/8 shaft
husang tapeerd shaft

the guy that had the arrow pointing right at the dimple was useing a honda he told me

The cam is identical in all 3 motors
the cam is installed the same way in all 3 motors.

 

[Greybeard]

I'd have to agree with Scotto in that there is no evidence in your post that you've listened to anyone.
" i set the valves at 008 when its at bottom dead center and the lifters are loose.. but when i ran it i noticed the lifters are alot louder than stock.. is this normal? should i back them off to 009 or 010? or will they eventually wear in?"

BDC was addressed as being the incorrect place to adjust the valves. Your response? You didn't say "thanks, I'll check that out", you responded with:

"thats what i did i turned it till both lifters were loose at the same time i didnt look to see where the piston was be it at the bottom of the stroke or tdc either one as long as the lifters are both freed up at the same time which is only one time during the compression stroke at the bottom just before it comes up as you come up theres pressure starting to build on the lifters and they arent loose so bdc from... "

Now you've segued off to wheither the cam is 180 degrees 0ff. If the mark is 180 degrees off, then it's OK. One tooth off is bad. But if the valves were adjusted wrong, and you haven't fixed it, you've still got a problem. You aren't listening

 

[locutus_1]

I'd have to agree with Scotto in that there is no evidence in your post that you've listened to anyone.
" i set the valves at 008 when its at bottom dead center and the lifters are loose.. but when i ran it i noticed the lifters are alot louder than stock.. is this normal? should i back them off to 009 or 010? or will they eventually wear in?"

BDC was addressed as being the incorrect place to adjust the valves. Your response? You didn't say "thanks, I'll check that out", you responded with:

"thats what i did i turned it till both lifters were loose at the same time i didnt look to see where the piston was be it at the bottom of the stroke or tdc either one as long as the lifters are both freed up at the same time which is only one time during the compression stroke at the bottom just before it comes up as you come up theres pressure starting to build on the lifters and they arent loose so bdc from... "

Now you've segued off to wheither the cam is 180 degrees 0ff. If the mark is 180 degrees off, then it's OK. One tooth off is bad. But if the valves were adjusted wrong, and you haven't fixed it, you've still got a problem. You aren't listening

ive listened to everyone and ive adjusted them correctly maybe none of you get what im talking about but bdc is at the compression stroke and its where both valves are loose all the way up till the pistion compresses then one tightens up so it dosent matter if the pistion is at the top or bottom of compression stroke as long as both lifters are loose or even one is loose then adjust that one then the next...


and when i say 180 off heres why ill explain it again...since no one gets me..
i saw terrys install video i followed it then i saw some other guy do it a diffrent way.. now you tell me woulndt you be confused....

terrys video says theres a dimple on the cam on the side with the lobe on the bottom of the lobe transfer mark it to the other side i did this now install it so that mark faces the dimple on the crank gear did that


now i see another dude who has a honda motor wherer i have the hs

and this guy put the cam in with the arrorw on the back side at the dimple which ok why would terry tell us to put it with the dimple...

so im thinking ok whats going on.. find out this guy has a honda my hs when i pulled off the gear didnt have the arrow pointing at the dimple it was the way terry said

now after seeing 2 diffrent ways im thking the honda is a derrent set up than the hs so this is what im asking wth is the right way..


now from 2 of you guys ive practically been called stupid and i dont apreciate it i really dont the way and demener ive been talked to is just plain wrong

there are ways to say things to get your point across without insulting my intelligence...


now the honda hs hs 5/8 shaft all these specs everything on these motors is all diffrent not one is the same they exadurate badly i belive the honda because well its a honda but the rest i dont so this is why im questioning why is this cam installed this way and is it right on my car...

see i take in all advice then i make an educated guess.. this is how i operate i cant just go off one guys saying...

 

[scotto-]

Now I'm a little confused here........who is this "guy with the honda" ? I've read several posts, including my own, explaining how to do this procedure. Did you read Terry's post explaining his video and procedures are wrong? How could you line up arrows and dimples that are on the backside of the cam? You've seen my pics of my HuaSheng 49cc and it IS set in the TDC position and that is where you want it to set the valve lash.....period. I'm scotto-, I've done all I can do to try to help you......my bike runs fantastic, and that's all I can say besides "good luck".

ive listened to everyone and ive adjusted them correctly maybe none of you get what im talking about but bdc is at the compression stroke and its where both valves are loose all the way up till the pistion compresses then one tightens up so it dosent matter if the pistion is at the top or bottom of compression stroke as long as both lifters are loose or even one is loose then adjust that one then the next...


and when i say 180 off heres why ill explain it again...since no one gets me..
i saw terrys install video i followed it then i saw some other guy do it a diffrent way.. now you tell me woulndt you be confused....

terrys video says theres a dimple on the cam on the side with the lobe on the bottom of the lobe transfer mark it to the other side i did this now install it so that mark faces the dimple on the crank gear did that


now i see another dude who has a honda motor wherer i have the hs

and this guy put the cam in with the arrorw on the back side at the dimple which ok why would terry tell us to put it with the dimple...

so im thinking ok whats going on.. find out this guy has a honda my hs when i pulled off the gear didnt have the arrow pointing at the dimple it was the way terry said

now after seeing 2 diffrent ways im thking the honda is a derrent set up than the hs so this is what im asking wth is the right way..


now from 2 of you guys ive practically been called stupid and i dont apreciate it i really dont the way and demener ive been talked to is just plain wrong

there are ways to say things to get your point across without insulting my intelligence...


now the honda hs hs 5/8 shaft all these specs everything on these motors is all diffrent not one is the same they exadurate badly i belive the honda because well its a honda but the rest i dont so this is why im questioning why is this cam installed this way and is it right on my car...

see i take in all advice then i make an educated guess.. this is how i operate i cant just go off one guys saying...

 

[locutus_1]

Now I'm a little confused here........who is this "guy with the honda" ? I've read several posts, including my own, explaining how to do this procedure. Did you read Terry's post explaining his video and procedures are wrong? How could you line up arrows and dimples that are on the backside of the cam? You've seen my pics of my HuaSheng 49cc and it IS set in the TDC position and that is where you want it to set the valve lash.....period. I'm scotto-, I've done all I can do to try to help you......my bike runs fantastic, and that's all I can say besides "good luck".

well i was right terry told us to install the cam the wrong way... and you all thought i was crazy when i asked... it was you i think that did the cam install...

and this is why i ask a ton of people... now i have to confirm it with agk damn and i ran my motor a couple miles out of time no wonder why i have less power.
imjust glad my motor didnt blow up... i told terry to get his facts straight before he atemps this but he rushed it out and im glad my motor didnt suffer for it atleast i hope so.. funny thing is it runs

ok scotto can you tell me how you did it please? word for word how you installed it set everything up.. because tomorrow i want to pull it apart..


and for clarity im not talking about lash im talking about the cam the raceing cam on the cam there is an arrow do you line the arrow up with the dimple on the crankshaft? the way terry shows us was a dimple on the oposite side of the cam...

again for the 4th time im not talking about valves im talking about the race cam arrow faceing towards the dimple on the crank do i need to put the motor at tdc before i do it? i get ridiculed and made fun of turns out i am right...

 

[scotto-]

I would refer to Greybeards post as he explained 100% correctly and even gave an alternative way to set the lash as well. I understood it perfectly and I do it the same way....posts 18, 22 and 23 in this thread of your's.

well i was right terry told us to install the cam the wrong way... and you all thought i was crazy when i asked... it was you i think that did the cam install...

and this is why i ask a ton of people... now i have to confirm it with agk damn and i ran my motor a couple miles out of time no wonder why i have less power.
imjust glad my motor didnt blow up... i told terry to get his facts straight before he atemps this but he rushed it out and im glad my motor didnt suffer for it atleast i hope so.. funny thing is it runs

ok scotto can you tell me how you did it please? word for word how you installed it set everything up.. because tomorrow i want to pull it apart..


and for clarity im not talking about lash im talking about the cam the raceing cam on the cam there is an arrow do you line the arrow up with the dimple on the crankshaft? the way terry shows us was a dimple on the oposite side of the cam...