You KNOW that this is the unstated reason, how exactly. Don't you think it is a little irresponsible betting someone else's freedom and finances on this assumption
FL
- Thread starter James912
- Start date
What's your theory why the court came to this conclusion?
This vehicle does not meet the legal requirement of a motor vehicle that would require her to have a valid Florida Driver’s License.
Theories are fine, they theorized the world was flat once..
Without the specifics of the court's notes, all we have are theories and conjecture..
Why can't Jeff Arnet (via Paula Paxton) get those for us, since he seems to be the one pushing forward with the legality of gas bikes? He's the main proponent of wanting to make sure their legal, since he sells them..
You would think he wants undeniable proof so that there is no conjecture or "grey area".
Without the specifics of the court's notes, all we have are theories and conjecture..
Why can't Jeff Arnet (via Paula Paxton) get those for us, since he seems to be the one pushing forward with the legality of gas bikes? He's the main proponent of wanting to make sure their legal, since he sells them..
You would think he wants undeniable proof so that there is no conjecture or "grey area".
I agree a gray area isn't ideal, but you gotta take what you can get. Since there's not a dedicated law for gas powered MBs proof is called winning in court. That's how we find out about it, and that's how the prosecutor finds out too apparently.
My theory is based on what the first page of the Florida drivers handbook says, all motor vehicles are self propelled, and page 2 says you only need a license for a motor vehicle. None of the little details in the back of the book matter if this requirement isn't first met.
I'll come up with one when I read the court papers on the matter, maybe you could link us to the copy that you are reading.
That quote you keep posting can only e found in one place, that article with a very pro MAB slant by the way
And your whole theory that these things are not self propelled is a gigantic stretch of a very vivid imagination at best
Fair enough, if you don't believe what the article says I guess we'll have to wait and find out. I know first hand a lot of what you read in the newspaper is wrong. In this case I think the state couldn't get a conviction, the real question is why? Based on what it says, I think it has to be the self propelled thing.
The officer in charge of the Texas DPS motorcycle safety division that I talked to last year didn't think this defense was a gigantic stretch.
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And you know this because you read it in a newspaper article, you know that media that you just said gets a lot of things wrong
It is nothing more than pure assumption tat leads you to believe that the failure to convict was based on these self propelled bikes not being self propelled, nothing more
Now can you show us the incident report that that Texas cop, who has absolutely no jurisdiction in Florida and probably no more knowledge of our laws than you do, wrote on your theory of self propelled bikes not being self propelled
It is nothing more than pure assumption tat leads you to believe that the failure to convict was based on these self propelled bikes not being self propelled, nothing more
Now can you show us the incident report that that Texas cop, who has absolutely no jurisdiction in Florida and probably no more knowledge of our laws than you do, wrote on your theory of self propelled bikes not being self propelled
They get stuff wrong, but they don't usually make a habit of out right lying about it though lol.
There's no report to report, because in Texas if there's a challenge, the charges are dropped. Hardly anyone in Texas is even complaining about getting pulled over anymore on a MB even though nothing has changed about the law since 1995. I was told by the DPS that there's never been a challenge that they know of.
If this case actually went to trial, it probably was the first one. If it really was won by the defendant, it will probably be the last too.
Since I have no idea what it is you're trying to say here I'll just say we can wait till we read the report or we can continue to pull up wild assumptions based on how they do it in another state
Personally I'll wait for the report before advising someone to go to court with a pipedream defense
Hi & Hi All,
Sangesf, what were you saying?
I have some info 1.04 MB PDF
Says you only can download into forum 19.5 kb only.
Any suggestions on how to attach?
Good day to everyone. As you may or not know I have been battling for a lack of terms with local law enforcement in my local area. Just when I have them on something they seem to pull rank on me and tell me that the bikes are motor vehicles. I have done a great deal of research into this matter, and yes I run a business building them. I do have an active interest for the sell, but more importantly for what they really are. An economical means of transportation for anyone needing to get to work, school, or to the store. I have been through the city police and have a letter from the Police captain stating as long as they do not go over 20mph you can ride them as a regular bike. I also "funny enough" have visited the Sheriff's dept (which I currently am in a shouting match with) many times in the year of 2010 and repeatedly told they are bikes and you do not need a license. Armed with this information I continued to build and inform my customers of proper riding and rules of the road concerning a motorized bicycle. It wasn't until here recently did I find out that there was a few deputies out to stop the riding of our motorized transportation. My customers would call me at different times during the month saying that they were pulled over and harassed. I was in shock as to why they were getting pulled over. So I did the right thing by contacting the sheriffs department and tried to get to the bottom of this. As I entered the office I was meet with a familiar eye. It had been the deputy I had been talking to all this time. I asked him briefly about the issue and he told me not to worry about it we were ok. So I went on my happy way and continued the business as usual. Wasn’t until I was pulled over about 2 months ago did I really get fired up about it. The deputy walked around the truck quickly and told me that I was operating a moped without a tag. I tried to explain to him that I was operating a motorized bicycle. Well he heard nothing of it. Sharing everything in the world with me, but not listening to a word I was trying to tell him. So I did what any intelligent person would do, I changed the subject to something else in hopes I could get away from him quick. It worked—I started in on the truck he was driving and that’s all it took to turn his attention. Well you might add was this it for me? Not in the least. I this time was going to go to sheriff Ashley himself, after all I knew the man and go to the same church. You might say why didn’t you go to him in the first place? Well the reason is, because of my military training you always try to solve the problem at the lowest level possible. And now that I had gotten pulled over and threatened with jail time and whatever else came to the man’s mind, it was time to go to the big dog with this. But I never got to see him on the matter I was referred twice down the line to a sgt Jones. This guy was in charge of traffic for the county. I thought maybe this is the level I need to get it straightened out. So I got a phone appointment with him. When we spoke he mentioned that they were motor vehicles and I asked why he was stating that. His answer was because they were self propelled. I thought for a second of how he was dead wrong, but he said he would contact the DMV and ask himself to make sure. At this point I thought well now we will get somewhere with the TL-10 referring them as motorized bicycles. This should be an open and shut case for the issue. At least I thought this until he said the DMV lawyer he knows was an “old fishing buddy”. Right there was the point I lost the hope. And sure enough four hours or so later I found out the same bull they were feeding everyone else. Another dead end…..ok but one good thing came out of the conversation with him, he said something about the law getting changed. I thought this is the way to do it. So I mounted a crusade to meet with my Rep. his name was Matt Gaetz. This guy was a younger guy and I thought maybe I can get him on my side and win this. Well I made the meeting and had about a week to prepare. I made up two folders containing anything from state statues to email traffic to other state statues for easy reference for the law to be changed. He was very impressed with the information I presented to him and demonstrated. You see I took him outside and showed hime a gas powered and an electric powered motorized bicycle. He had told me that there seemed to be no difference between the two other than the power of which it helps the rider. I thought this might be the right guy for the job, I had a good feeling from him that he was going to help. He had stated to me that he was going to get with the sheriffs dept and see what the deal was, and if he didn’t get anywhere he would go to his friend the transportation rep for the state of Florida. Wow right? This had to be it I thought, but alas no. he had sided with the sheriffs dept and backed away from me. You see I didn’t realize this, but he was put in office from one of the most wealthy auto dealers in the panhandle of Florida. What does this have anything to do with it you ask? Well the big Sheriff Ashley is married to the guy’s daughter. Got to love a small town!! So I went nowhere with the rep. I was very disappointed in the result there. So it brought me to another change of plans for the business, I started to sell online only and would not build or sell a bike to anyone around here unless they were fully aware of what the sheriffs dept’s stance was with the bikes. You know the people just didn’t care about it, they still wanted the bikes, so I built them and they ride them. So which brings me to one of the last parts of the story the letter. Little did I know that one of my customers was pulled over in bay county Florida on a bike that I built for her. She had it rough, she was 16 miles from home and the trooper would not let her move the bike. She had to call her father to come and get her and the bike from the side of the road. He was not a happy camper with the trooper because of the stress he was creating for everyone. Long story short > she got the ticket for operating a motor vehicle without a license. The end result was the district state attorney’s office did nothing to her. In fact they gave her a letter from their own office stating that a license was not required to operate a bicycle with a helper motor. I have a the pieces to the puzzle on this. Starting with a picture of the bike, the receipt for the purchase, the ticket issued, and the letter given to her so she can ride again. So you see I do have a lot of time invested in this issue for myself and everyone in the state to ride in 
.
Going now to the statues in Florida lets look at the 322.01. now when you read this you think well it must fall under the self propelled thing because it doesn’t saying anything about a moped, well your right it doesn’t state moped in the definition for a motor vehicle, but according to a phone conversation I had with the district state attorney. He stated” this is a simple answer, who ever wrote the law did not look at 316.003 or 320.01 when they created it. This is why the case will be thrown out every time, the other two laws state something different on the same issue the other one is referring too.” So for the record mopeds are not motor vehicles or bicycles with helper gas motors on them. Read 316.003 about a motor vehicle and moped and 320.01 on a motor vehicle and moped. The sheriffs dept forgets to mention the other two laws that state the exact opposite of what they are saying. Look closely at the definition of the moped, they are not self propelled they need human pedal power to permit propulsion it reads this clear as day and we need to push the issue ALL OF US IN FLORIDA. In closing I would like to state that I have posted the letter and the ticket given to her on the very bottom of my home page. Home If you would like a copy of the letter email me and you will have it shortly. Yes SANGF I will give it to you this time.
Hopefully I was able to give you some sort of an idea of what has happened to me in the last year or so.
Reference material used: Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine http://www3.flhsmv.gov/DMV/Proc/TL/TL-10.PDF district state attorney’s office Stacy S Sharp/Florida Bar#0065066/850-872-4473
. Going now to the statues in Florida lets look at the 322.01. now when you read this you think well it must fall under the self propelled thing because it doesn’t saying anything about a moped, well your right it doesn’t state moped in the definition for a motor vehicle, but according to a phone conversation I had with the district state attorney. He stated” this is a simple answer, who ever wrote the law did not look at 316.003 or 320.01 when they created it. This is why the case will be thrown out every time, the other two laws state something different on the same issue the other one is referring too.” So for the record mopeds are not motor vehicles or bicycles with helper gas motors on them. Read 316.003 about a motor vehicle and moped and 320.01 on a motor vehicle and moped. The sheriffs dept forgets to mention the other two laws that state the exact opposite of what they are saying. Look closely at the definition of the moped, they are not self propelled they need human pedal power to permit propulsion it reads this clear as day and we need to push the issue ALL OF US IN FLORIDA. In closing I would like to state that I have posted the letter and the ticket given to her on the very bottom of my home page. Home If you would like a copy of the letter email me and you will have it shortly. Yes SANGF I will give it to you this time.
Hopefully I was able to give you some sort of an idea of what has happened to me in the last year or so.
Reference material used: Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine http://www3.flhsmv.gov/DMV/Proc/TL/TL-10.PDF district state attorney’s office Stacy S Sharp/Florida Bar#0065066/850-872-4473
That's all well and good, however.. I see nothing anywhere saying ANYTHING about a GAS motor anywhere in either of those documents.
The actual POLICE REPORT is what we need...
The report has ALL THE DETAILS..
The ticket is just that, a ticket and is not informative in the least.
The "no information" letter has NOTHING in it at all that has the word GAS.
I've seen nothing in either of those documents that shows Mrs. Paxton was riding a gas powered bicycle (on ticket it only states bicycle) nor was riding (and not pedaling) when encountered.
I've seen documents like this before and when you get to the rationale of the issue, you find out, it's not necessarily what you think...
The actual POLICE REPORT is what we need...
The report has ALL THE DETAILS..
The ticket is just that, a ticket and is not informative in the least.
The "no information" letter has NOTHING in it at all that has the word GAS.
I've seen nothing in either of those documents that shows Mrs. Paxton was riding a gas powered bicycle (on ticket it only states bicycle) nor was riding (and not pedaling) when encountered.
I've seen documents like this before and when you get to the rationale of the issue, you find out, it's not necessarily what you think...
Thanks DTGoat,
Jeff A. posted the PDF attachment I was trying to post on his website:
Home
As Sang sees it, not conclusive enough.
Sigh...
Well, there you have it.
I am sure Jeff A. will continue to share his reserch w/ the MB Community.
I would assume with the info provided Sang, you can do whatever it is you need to do to get your further clarifications on this matter.
Tried using that case number on the Bay County criminal traffic search and of course, I get an error message...
Could someone else try and see if it's because I'm using an iPhone (no computer) to do the search...
Wondering what info can be obtained...
Could someone else try and see if it's because I'm using an iPhone (no computer) to do the search...
Wondering what info can be obtained...