FL

[Fulltimer]

I signed the petition but it needs more clarity before it could be submitted.

Terry

 

[SANGESF]

But that is not true.. They can be registered as home built mopeds in any county in the state. Members here have already done it. It is perfectly legal to build a motor vehicle or moped and have it registered in Fla. it's done all them time

Your only partially correct...
They will NOT let you register a bicycle with a gas motor as a moped as of April of this year..

The only way to register a homemade "moped" is to actually build one and have it inspected so that it passes all federal and state DOT standards..
A bicycle frame is NOT DOT approved, nor are there any DOT approved bicycle tires..

 

[tbolt76]

any ideas on how to clarify it? i need all the help i can get.

 

[Arnett Motor Bikes]

Ok, this gets back to my arguement.

In the Florida driver handbook it says on page 4, you need a license if you drive a motor vehicle on public streets.

Motor Vehicle: Any self-propelled vehicle, including a motor vehicle combination, not operated upon rails or guide way, excluding vehicles
moved solely by human power, motorized wheelchairs, and motorized bicycles as defined in section 316.003, Florida Statutes.

Motorcycle: Any motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact
with the ground, but excluding a tractor or a moped.

2.3 - Who Needs One?
• If you live in Florida and want to drive a motor vehicle on public streets and highways.
• If you move to Florida and have a valid license from another state, you must get a Florida license within 30 days of becoming a resident.
You are considered a resident of Florida if you:
a. Enroll your children in public school, or
b. Register to vote, or
c. File for a homestead exemption, or
d. Accept employment, or
e. Reside in Florida for more than six consecutive months.





This definition of a moped is a laugh. There's no such vehicle on the market, except for a electric motor bicycle. I'm pretty sure whoever wrote this part of the law was copying from the ebike law making slight changes as needed. The problem is what works for an ebike doesn't work for a china girl style bike. You can ride an ebike off from a dead stop without peddling. It qualifies as self propelled. All motor vehicles are self propelled remember.

A china girl MB can't pass that test. It's not self propelled, and therefore not a moped, and not motor vehicle.

You can't ride a china girl off from a stop in the manner described below. Where they really shot themselves in the toockus, is when they specified not to exceed 50cc. That seals the deal. My 50 definitely can't take off on it's own. There's no way a prosecutor could claim it's self propelled.

(77) MOPED.—Any vehicle with pedals to permit propulsion by human power, having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three wheels; with a motor rated not in excess of 2 brake horsepower and not capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed greater than 30 miles per hour on level ground; and with a power-drive system that functions directly or automatically without clutching or shifting gears by the operator after the drive system is engaged. If an internal combustion engine is used, the displacement may not exceed 50 cubic centimeters.

That's the defense I would try to mount for a no license ticket. No lawyer, they'd want hundreds to actually argue a case in front of a jury. Traffic court is set up for citizens to experience the judicial system by defending themselves without having a great deal at stake. The worst they can do is fine you. In Texas the jury gets to set the fine. They usually will fine you less than a judge will. In almost every case the state looses money no matter how much the fine. They aren't going to be too eagar to try this case.

If you should happen to lose, that's when you can decide to forget about it, or hire a shyster to appeal.

real quick also check the definitions of motor vehicle in 316.003 and 320.01
you will see that a moped is not a motor vehicle by thoughs two laws. and because the conflict is there that's why the state attorney's office said they will also find a NO INFORMATION statement in the court room. read all the laws not just that one.

 

[rustycase]

The statement above is correct, fellas...

Not much about a bicycle that would meet dot and state standards.

...pretty much why a MAB is beneath the radar.

If someone were to ride like an idiot enforcement could certainly detain him for disturbing the .

There's not really much defense for hi speed on the public roads with cable operated brakes and tires that are not acceptable.

Much fancier, you might as well build a motorcycle.

Here in Kalifornia, it was possible to fabricate a motorcycle from parts at home in your garage and register and license it for hiway use under the heading of 'Special Construction'. I do not know what the situation is today.

Best
rc

 

[biknut]

real quick also check the definitions of motor vehicle in 316.003 and 320.01
you will see that a moped is not a motor vehicle by thoughs two laws. and because the conflict is there that's why the state attorney's office said they will also find a NO INFORMATION statement in the court room. read all the laws not just that one.

I agree they do seem to say a moped isn't a motor vehicle. Doesn't matter though because the vehicle they're describing as a moped doesn't work for a gas powered motor bicycle, if we're talking about a china girl style bike. It can't be ridden in the manner described especially if it's a 50.

Only a electric motor bicycle would work that way, or a gas powered motor bicycle with more power than a stock 50cc china girl has.

 

[daRog]

I'll just leave this here:

 

[norrisdesigned]

real quick also check the definitions of motor vehicle in 316.003 and 320.01
you will see that a moped is not a motor vehicle by thoughs two laws. and because the conflict is there that's why the state attorney's office said they will also find a NO INFORMATION statement in the court room. read all the laws not just that one.

From my understanding of how the law reads... for DL purposes a moped is treated as a motor vehicle and only for this case meaning you will need a DL. Which in-turn means you need to get it registered.

For everything else its a bicycle... (one exception being you can not run it on the sidewalk with the motor running)

If this is the case and nothing changes to alter this. Then the best route for the motorized bicycle riding community in Florida would be to work with the state/dmv to provide some form of safety guidelines for custom built moped so they can be registered.(I know some have already been able to accomplish this but, it hasn't worked for everyone that has tried it)

 

[biknut]

From my understanding of how the law reads... for DL purposes a moped is treated as a motor vehicle and only for this case meaning you will need a DL. Which in-turn means you need to get it registered.

For everything else its a bicycle... (one exception being you can not run it on the sidewalk with the motor running)

If this is the case and nothing changes to alter this. Then the best route for the motorized bicycle riding community in Florida would be to work with the state/dmv to provide some form of safety guidelines for custom built moped so they can be registered.(I know some have already been able to accomplish this but, it hasn't worked for everyone that has tried it)

Good guidelines for a motor bicycle would say something like,

a MB only needs the same safety equipment as a bicycle, and for the purpose of registration, the bicycle serial number will be accepted. A fee of $8 covers registration for the life of the vehicle. This would allow motor swaps since the frame number is on the registration. Limit top speed to whatever is fair, like 20 mph for ebikes, and 30 mph for gas powered. Everything else the same as a bicycle. Also allow MBs on all bicycle trails and lanes.

 

[DuctTapedGoat]

There was some proposed ATV laws out here in Idaho - they would have allowed ATVs to operate on roads with speed limits 50 and under, and your operating speed would be a max of 35. You would have to register your vehicle for this specific type of use, etc etc.

I'll have to track it down, but really - it's my favorite attempt at a reformation here in Idaho, and it wasn't just mopeds.

 

[James912]

Legally blind, no DL over 50cc non EPA approved motor

God bless ya !

I'm not gonna bring up the part about it not being epa approved. I was just sayin'. I'd like to fight to make these motorized bicycles legal, and make them be called motorized bicycles in the statutes. Im going to push to let us ride these in the bike lanes, don't need to be licensed to ride it. The max speed i'll say is 20mph. You don't need to go any faster than that. Any faster is plain rediculus. A bicycle will fall apart going 30mph over time. They hopefully will hear me out. For those of us who cant get a license, for whatever the reason, need a form of transportation. Motorized bicycles is it. To be called a moped is rediculous. These are definitely not mopeds. Mopeds don't even need pedals. These mb's do. Mopeds have a key ignition, and you have a floor to put your feet. and you steer and have twist throttle. Heres a pic of what i think is a moped.

This is what should be called a moped cuz it has a space to put your feet. Its key ignition, twist throttle. It is self propelled. It doesn't need pedals, it goes from a dead stop to speed by the twist of the throttle. Its gas operated. The seat part of the body of the vehicle. Our bikes is a seat on a seatpost. They are called moped scooters. That is what they are. Our mb's are strictly motorized bicycles. That is what i will push for.

 

[biknut]

I'm not gonna bring up the part about it not being epa approved. I was just sayin'. I'd like to fight to make these motorized bicycles legal, and make them be called motorized bicycles in the statutes. Im going to push to let us ride these in the bike lanes, don't need to be licensed to ride it. The max speed i'll say is 20mph. You don't need to go any faster than that. Any faster is plain rediculus. A bicycle will fall apart going 30mph over time. They hopefully will hear me out. For those of us who cant get a license, for whatever the reason, need a form of transportation. Motorized bicycles is it. To be called a moped is rediculous. These are definitely not mopeds. Mopeds don't even need pedals. These mb's do. Mopeds have a key ignition, and you have a floor to put your feet. and you steer and have twist throttle. Heres a pic of what i think is a moped.

This is what should be called a moped cuz it has a space to put your feet. Its key ignition, twist throttle. It is self propelled. It doesn't need pedals, it goes from a dead stop to speed by the twist of the throttle. Its gas operated. The seat part of the body of the vehicle. Our bikes is a seat on a seatpost. They are called moped scooters. That is what they are. Our mb's are strictly motorized bicycles. That is what i will push for.

I agree with your thinking. A motor bicycle isn't a moped, and shouldn't be referred to as one. Motor bicycles should be the same as a bicycle because nether are self propelled, which makes them different from all motor vehicles. Motor bicycles shouldn't be required to be licensed or registered, unless it's just a formality of walking in a forking over a few dollars to handle the paper work.

The only good reason I can think of for requiring a permit to ride a MB on the street, is to keep very young rides from harm, but there's probably no need because anyone that young won't know how to build one, or keep it running for long. OTOH if they're smart enough to make one, they're probably smart enough to ride it.

Motor vehicles are self propelled, which means it has to be able to drive off from a stop on it's own power. Any motor bicycle that can't pass that test should just be considered a bicycle.

 

[BarelyAWake]

To be sure & despite the trend amongst retailers to call it w/e, this is not a "moped" it's a scooter - complete with different regulations, usually w/o an engine displacement restriction but a maximum wheel OD (depending on state ofc);

This is a moped, common to have a 49cc maximum & note the intrinsic pedals, usually also mandated;

Figured I'd mention the maybe not-so-petty details

 

[biknut]

This is a moped, common to have a 49cc maximum & note the intrinsic pedals, usually also mandated;

Figured I'd mention the maybe not-so-petty details

Another important distinction that Florida obviously doesn't have a clue about is, mopeds have peddles, but they're not for propulsion. Mopeds are self propelled.

Notice here where Florida law says a moped is, "Any vehicle with pedals to permit propulsion by human power". Key word here is permit. The implication is you don't have to use them, because the vehicle is otherwise self propelled. The only reason to mention the peddles is to make sure a goped, or scooter is ruled out



(77) MOPED.—Any vehicle with pedals to permit propulsion by human power, having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three wheels; with a motor rated not in excess of 2 brake horsepower and not capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed greater than 30 miles per hour on level ground; and with a power-drive system that functions directly or automatically without clutching or shifting gears by the operator after the drive system is engaged. If an internal combustion engine is used, the displacement may not exceed 50 cubic centimeters.

 

[rustycase]

LOL

That pesky Wabbit !

lol

.....
Well, I would disagree with BN abt accepting a formality with gubment.
Them people could mismanage a rock.
It's been proven.

Tax someone a dime, you can tax 'em a dollar.
The power to tax is the power to destroy.

To me, that is just not acceptable.

We are not here for them, they are here for our benefit.

...........
As BA points out with the pic of the scooter, and the moped, there is substantial difference. To go the step further, if a pic of a MAB were included in that line-up, it would be ez to see that a MAB is little more than a bicycle... it IS a bicycle!

NO attempt to meet any dot standards.

Many folks want to talk about my basic MAB when I get out for an errand about town... I tell em it's just a noisy bicycle. 2 or 3 hundred bucks for a kit and all they need is a bike to attach it to and some fuel from their string trimmer...
I direct them to this forum if they are interested in more info.

IMO regulation on gutter riders is not acceptable.
We're beneath the radar.
rc

 

[motorbiker]

To be sure & despite the trend amongst retailers to call it w/e, this is not a "moped" it's a scooter - complete with different regulations, usually w/o an engine displacement restriction but a maximum wheel OD (depending on state ofc);

This is a moped, common to have a 49cc maximum & note the intrinsic pedals, usually also mandated;

Figured I'd mention the maybe not-so-petty details

The ad on the top of this page says turn your bicycle to a motorize scooter

We are making motorize scooters

 

[biknut]

LOL

That pesky Wabbit !

lol

.....
Well, I would disagree with BN abt accepting a formality with gubment.
Them people could mismanage a rock.
It's been proven.

Tax someone a dime, you can tax 'em a dollar.
The power to tax is the power to destroy.

To me, that is just not acceptable.

We are not here for them, they are here for our benefit.

rc

I don't advocate it. Only as a last resort. I prefer to use the same regulations as a bicycle.

I would go even further and exempt MBs from EPA regulations. Because of the small displacement there's no need.

 

[motorbiker]

I don't advocate it. Only as a last resort. I prefer to use the same regulations as a bicycle.

I would go even further and exempt MBs from EPA regulations. Because of the small displacement there's no need.

The closer it is to a motorcycle the more regs ?

A street bicycle with a small quiet Honda friction drive that is less than 15lbs on the back and can be tilted up and not used if wanted would be more of a motorized bicycle.

The China girl kits look like a moped or motorcycle wannabee ?

 

[biknut]

Words like moped, scooter, and motorcycle, are interchangeable in texas law. They all mean the same thing, "automobile". Which means, you guessed it, self propelled vehicle.

 

[motorbiker]

Words like moped, scooter, and motorcycle, are interchangeable in texas law. They all mean the same thing, "automobile". Which means, you guessed it, self propelled vehicle.

In Florida and most of the world moped means bicycle with a gas motor.

Bicycles are quiet and don't let off gas fumes that will kill you if you start it up in the garage and leave the doors shut ?