FL

GoldenMotor.com

James912

Member
Apr 12, 2011
584
2
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Florida
Got pulled over by the highway patrol. He turned his sirens on mere inches from his front tire to my back tire. Nearly lost control. He gave me a citation for driving a "moped" without a dl. I read the statute to him and e sid that doesnt matter. I was in the bikelane obeying the law. A gas motor on a bicycle makes it a moped. I have ten days to call the number for a court date. Im going to fight it!!!! No matter the odds! He said if he sees me witb the motor on he'll take me to jail. Im having to go to washington county courthouse. I ended up pedalling 16+ miles home. Im sunburnt. My back hurts bad from leaning over, riding my bike.
 
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James912

Member
Apr 12, 2011
584
2
16
33
Florida
I'm gonna do my best to win. I read him the statute defining a bicycle. It said all that is needed to tell the cop, you don't need a dl to drive a bicycle with a motor on it. I hope the jury and jury sees it my way. The thing that may screw me over is that i'm legally blind, and i didn't tell the cop cuz i know they'll throw it way out of wack. He probably would have made me stay there till someone came and got me. The judge may think i'm totally blind or can't see far enough to ride a bicycle. My coworkers would be the perfect defense for that. I work at a local city hall. They know i can see fine enough to ride a bike.
 

decoherence

New Member
Aug 23, 2010
476
2
0
sebring,fl
good luck!

i hope you win.
if you do others can use it as precedent.

i personaly had a sherif pull up & chat with me for 10 min.
also i have cops pas me all the time but i live in orange grove area.

i ran into another guy in my area & he had a cop tell him to ride with traffic not against it. ( yea that was dumb)
 

Goat Herder

Gutter Rider
Apr 28, 2008
6,237
20
38
N.M.
i ran into another guy in my area & he had a cop tell him to ride with traffic not against it. ( yea that was dumb)
I peddled for years that was my approach go against traffic. I always found that cars pulling into the road don't see you. I got cut off constantly a lot! Humans are like cattle they are creatures of habit. They never suspect someone coming from that direction.


It's bad enough when they look right at you and cannot correctly gauge your speed or take a chance then cut you off. On a peddle bike it's not to difficult to shut it down. On a motorized a completely different story. I found out it was much safer going with the flow. But I travel fairly faster with consistency than a peddle bike.

The police here don't care what direction a peddle bike is going unless it's screaming down the side etc. Then there is probs.
 
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James912

Member
Apr 12, 2011
584
2
16
33
Florida
I'm calling to day to get a court date. I WILL post to let yall know how it goes. :) Keep me in your prayers. :) I read to the cop the TL-10 pdf. that someone else posted on another thread and he said that wasn't the right one. The thing is...we all know there are like 3 versions of the law on this issue. there is the TL-10, and the one about it has to be 49cc's or lower, and another(i cant remember it).
 

rustycase

Gutter Rider
May 26, 2011
2,746
5
0
Left coast
I'm sorry to hear about your confrontation with the tax collector.
It's called curbside justice.
...the call to appear in court, win or lose, is the punishment delivered by the authority figure. For many people, the cost of making an appearance is excessive and creates problems for them on it's own.
A cop is a powerful person.
They can take away your money at their whim.
Good luck
rc
 

James912

Member
Apr 12, 2011
584
2
16
33
Florida
In Bay county, which is where i live, i've rode by cops plenty of times and they didn't care. They just stared and watched in amazement as i rode past.

This is what confuses me. The definition of a moped according to the FL statutes 316.003 is:
(77) MOPED.—Any vehicle with pedals to permit propulsion by human power, having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three wheels; with a motor rated not in excess of 2 brake horsepower and not capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed greater than 30 miles per hour on level ground; and with a power-drive system that functions directly or automatically without clutching or shifting gears by the operator after the drive system is engaged. If an internal combustion engine is used, the displacement may not exceed 50 cubic centimeters.


Our motorized bicycles uses a clutch...so i would think that fact alone would make these mb's remain bicycles?

A bicycle is defined by FL Statutes 316.003(2) as BICYCLE.—Every vehicle propelled solely by human power, and every motorized bicycle propelled by a combination of human power and an electric helper motor capable of propelling the vehicle at a speed of not more than 20 miles per hour on level ground upon which any person may ride, having two tandem wheels, and including any device generally recognized as a bicycle though equipped with two front or two rear wheels. The term does not include such a vehicle with a seat height of no more than 25 inches from the ground when the seat is adjusted to its highest position or a scooter or similar device. No person under the age of 16 may operate or ride upon a motorized bicycle.

So for it to remain a bicycle it has to have a "electric helper motor".
But the TL-10 says:

How is the tax collector supposed to register this bicycle/gas engine
assembly?
A. The definition of bicycle under s. 316.003(2), F.S., includes
motorized bicycles. Bicycles are not registered or titled.
Engine kits for bicycles are not new and there are a variety of
kits available, however, they remain bicycles after the engine
kit is installed. There are other requirements that must be met
to be classified as a motorcycle/scooter/moped such as frame
assembly and safety features. If a customer brings in
paperwork for a bicycle, they cannot be legally issued a title or
registration nor is it required. The agent should also direct the
customer to law enforcement if there are any questions as to
where the motorized bicycle can be used.


Why do u need a DL to ride these contraptions if they can't be registered or titled?

These laws contradict each other. The way i see it, this is insanity. You can have a electric helper motor that cannot propel the bike more than 20mph on level ground without needing to have a DL. But cannot put a gas(internal combustion engine of any size) on your bike and ride it without a DL?

I know if i go to court to fight the ticket, they catch me when we get to the part about my engine size. My engine is 66cc. The limit in FL is 49cc. But what about driving a "moped" without a DL? Are they right or are we?
They can beat us(so to say) in 3 different ways.
This is stressing me out just trying to figure this out....
All comments and comments are appreciated.
 
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motorbiker

New Member
Mar 22, 2008
569
0
0
Tampa Bay Florida
You can get away with murder in Florida if you have a good lawyer.

For what it would cost to hire a lawyer you could buy an ebike.

Heck, for what a few tickets would cost you could buy an ebike.

The cops may still give you tickets for no DL on an ebike but you would have a better chance of winning without a lawyer.

In some states ebikes are not legal. We are blessed they are legal in Florida.

We have maybe the most free bicycle laws in the country.
 

James912

Member
Apr 12, 2011
584
2
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33
Florida
We actually have one of the most strict bicycle laws in the country. Some counties slack off on some laws than others.
 

motorbiker

New Member
Mar 22, 2008
569
0
0
Tampa Bay Florida
We actually have one of the most strict bicycle laws in the country. Some counties slack off on some laws than others.
I have studied the bicycle laws.

I don't know of any state I would trade bicycle laws with ! :)

They call bicycles with gas engines on them mopeds in Florida.

That is what they are called here.

It does not matter what they call them on this forum or any other forum or in any other state for that matter.

That is just the way it is.

Riding a bicycle with a gas engine on the street in Florida with no DL is just asking for tickets !
 
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James912

Member
Apr 12, 2011
584
2
16
33
Florida
Called today, and they finally got my ticket. My court date is September 8th. Any ideas what i should use as my defense?
 

SANGESF

New Member
Feb 23, 2009
641
0
0
Lake Worth
The only thing you could TRY is using the procedural document TL-10 from the DMV...
You're only defense I would think, would be "after I read Section F -3 I thought I didn't need a license for my bike".
Prolly won't work, but the only valid defense I would think.
 

James912

Member
Apr 12, 2011
584
2
16
33
Florida
Thats what i thought too. I'm also gonna try to use my disability to see if they'll maybe let me off easy.
 
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James912

Member
Apr 12, 2011
584
2
16
33
Florida
I was lookin' over my citation yesterday, the cop checked the box next to no valid drivers license and in the comments section he wrote: on a gasoline bicycle.

The cop argued that it was a moped, but he wrote bicycle on the citation. For the style of the vehicle, he wrote bicycle. How odd....
 

James912

Member
Apr 12, 2011
584
2
16
33
Florida
I'm going to fight this. They have the law backwards, and this is why and what i think. An electric powered bicycle can go way faster than these ht engines, unless u go hard core modifying it. Gas bikes can go way farther than electric. Electric can start off faster. Electric is more dangerous. I'm still going to fight this citation. There is no reason why we should not be allowed to drive our contraptions in the bike lane. It's not like we are doing anything obnoxious. If anything, you should have to have a license to drive an electric powered bicycle. They completely outrun these ht engines. I cant have a license because of my disability, and therefore, i'm going to fight this. Any body that wants to come. I'll let yall know when the next court date is.
 
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SANGESF

New Member
Feb 23, 2009
641
0
0
Lake Worth
Your partially correct..

An electric bicycle is not necessarily faster than an HT gas bike. As a matter of fact most 24v bikes can only go 0-15 and takes about 45sec.
36v bikes can only go 0-20 and takes about the same.
48v bikes can only go 0-25 and takes about the same.

Most Gas bicycles I've seen can do anywhere from 0-25/30mph or so and takes a little shorter of a time.

Unless you're going to spend a LOT of money on an electric bike for a 60v+ motor that can do 30+, electric bikes are WAY safer than gas bikes.
(Ex: My electric bike is 36v LiFePo4 battery, tops off at 21.2mph and in a crash has NO chance of catching on fire or exploding. - I've had a 35cc gas motor on it and was able to do 25mph EASILY.. I could only image the speeds I could get up to with a 49cc/66cc/80cc china girl on it. It was loud/noisy/smelled and ran HOT.)

I would say a gas bike is a LITTLE more dangerous than my electric and can achieve MUCH faster speeds. Also my electric bike at 36v is slower on take off then a regular bicyclist.

I think your thoughts on this matter are a little jaded. I also don't know if it's such a good idea to bring up the fact that you have a hard time with your eyesight. They might use that against you.

Just my .02

P.S. I think your best defense is the "gasoline bicycle" instead of moped written on the citation.

P.P.S. Yes I'm a little "jaded" too because I run an electric bike, BUT when I moved to Florida and read the laws, I noticed that gas bikes had a "sort of grey area" so I decided to go with the (APPARENTLY OBVIOUS) legal definition of a bicycle. (Although my 36v bike can achieve 21.2mph, I have a limiter on it to limit max speed to 20mph for legality reasons.)
 
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