Setup handlebar controls with GT5 & shifter

[Sanction]

I'm new to the forum and did a search for how to setup the controls on the handlebars (Throttle, gear shifter, clutch, choke, brakes, etc.)

I am buying all the needed components for my build a little backwards. I have started with the engine "Grubee Skyhawk gt5 Super Rat 66cc with the built in CDI and CNS Carb" and plan on buying the mountain bike and shift kit to suit. I would also like to hear suggestions on which Mountain Bike and Shift kit That would be well suited for this engine for cross town commuting. Highest speed limit in town is 45 mph.

What is the best layout for all the handlebar controls?

Example

left - Clutch, Choke
middle - Speedometer, Light, GPS
right - Throttle, thumb shifter?, Double Pull Brake?​

How can all these controls be placed for ease of operation and what type of controllers should be used? The shifter seems to be the main issue.

Thank you in advance for your time and help!

​

 

[KCvale]

So you are going to take the Shifting plunge, good for you!
Gears change everything.

I have build a few shifter bikes now and what works best for me is:

Right. Throttle/Kill Button and Dual Pull Brake Lever.
Left. Clutch and single shift control.

I say single shift control because for a derailer bike the JS kit replaces your whole front pedal assembly and the front derailer is removed.
All you get is the back gears.

Regardless of the drive train you use you will find that putting the shifter and clutch lever on the left is the challenge.
All rear wheel shifters are designed for the right side, so if the bikes shifter will work on the left with the clutch it's readout will be upside down.

As far as the rear wheel drive goes my new favorites are the manual NuVinci hubs.
The Dev Kit programmable hub I tried failed, and I know why but that is another story.

I have a pair of them here right now, the Caddy with a 48cc, and the 66cc Suede just getting converted from auto to manual.

There is an art to shifting the manual NuVinci, you kind of treat it like a 40 speed manual, with a brief let off of power on up-shifts and NOT as they claim a 'steady under load shift', not up shifting anyway.

Next best to me is any other hub shifter, even a 3-speed.
The Suede started with a Nexus 3-speed and stock 48cc ran 32+ and got me to speed in a hurry, the Caddy on the other hand will maintain 35 uphill sitting up and hit 45 on flat ground bending forward.

Last is the derailers.
Besides all the exterior mechanics and having to really lay off power to up shift, you are forced to use skinny chain.

Though they work dandy when operated correctly with a small motor, don't expect to slap some monster motor on a derailer over maybe a 5 speed with new HD chain without shredding 7-speed pedal chains.

Again, welcome to the forum and your foray into shifter bikes.
They are not for the faint of heart to build and maintain, but worth the effort for riding pleasure.

I have a few examples of my builds here KC's Kruisers - Motorized Bike Forum if you want to take a look, they are all set up the same way control wise, just different shift controllers.

 

[Sanction]

Hi KCvale, What kind of shift controller have you found to work best for you?

 

[Pilotgeek]

Your example setup is almost exactly how mine works.

Left
Clutch with auto-lock (no stupid button)
Mirror Mount
Choke Lever

Mid
Speedo
(Headlight mounted above front tire, not handlebars)

Right
Shifter: Friction type shifter, with a lever that I can work with my thumb from the throttle.
Brakes
Throttle/Kill

 

[Sanction]

Your example setup is almost exactly how mine works.

Left
Clutch with auto-lock (no stupid button)
Mirror Mount
Choke Lever

Mid
Speedo
(Headlight mounted above front tire, not handlebars)

Right
Shifter: Friction type shifter, with a lever that I can work with my thumb from the throttle.
Brakes
Throttle/Kill

I haven't actually built mine yet. But in my head I picture the gear controller being on the right so that both clutch and gears could be operated simultaneously.I think your onto something with the headlight mounted over the front tire.

 

[KCvale]

Hi KCvale, What kind of shift controller have you found to work best for you?

Well, I make whatever internal shifter control work on the left, but for the rear derailer if that is the case I find the choke lever and cable from the plethora of unused CNS carbs I had work great for the rear derailer. You don't even need to spend too much time adjusting it, that choke control has like 20 click points so you just set it where you want.

I don't what they cost to buy separate, but it doesn't matter where which way they mount as the indicator is generic. Mine is in on an up part of the handlebars.

Unless you don't have your motor running well the choke is not something you should need to constantly adjust.
You give it a little if it is cold and then shut it off, but for my bikes you almost never need it at all.

Left
Clutch with auto-lock (no stupid button)
Mirror Mount
Choke Lever

Right
Shifter: Friction type shifter, with a lever that I can work with my thumb from the throttle.
Brakes
Throttle/Kill

Pilot,
Can you elaborate on the 'Clutch with auto-lock (no stupid button)' please? Specifically how it functions? Or post a link or pic? Thanks ;-}

Seems we have different riding preferences, one of the coolest things about making your own 'cockpit controls' the way you want is you can.

I tried having throttle, shift and brake on the right a couple of times and found it frustrating. I want to control the throttle and shifter at the same time and I just couldn't do it. Toss in the brakes and Pfftt, I moved shifting to my otherwise unused while moving left hand to handle.

Lights, speedo, choke etc, are nothing I need to control without both hands holding on and you might be surprised what you can up with making your own center handlebar console ;-}

 

[KCvale]

Hi KCvale, What kind of shift controller have you found to work best for you?

Well, I make whatever internal shifter control work on the left, but for the rear derailer if that is the case I find the choke lever and cable from the plethora of unused CNS carbs I had work great for the rear derailer. You don't even need to spend too much time adjusting it, that choke control has like 20 click points so you just set it where you want.

I don't know what they cost to buy separate, but it doesn't matter where or which way you mount it, they mount anywhere and the indicator is generic. Mine is in on an up part of the handlebars.

Unless you don't have your motor running well the choke is not something you should need to constantly adjust.
You give it a little if it is cold and then shut it off, but for my bikes you almost never need it at all.

Left
Clutch with auto-lock (no stupid button)
Mirror Mount
Choke Lever

Right
Shifter: Friction type shifter, with a lever that I can work with my thumb from the throttle.
Brakes
Throttle/Kill

Pilot,
Can you elaborate on the 'Clutch with auto-lock (no stupid button)' please? Specifically how it functions? Or post a link or pic? Thanks ;-}

Seems we have different riding preferences, one of the coolest things about making your own 'cockpit controls' the way you want is you can.

I tried having throttle, shift and brake on the right a couple of times and found it frustrating. I want to control the throttle and shifter at the same time and I just couldn't do it. Toss in the brakes and Pfftt, I moved shifting to my otherwise unused while moving left hand to handle.

Lights, speedo, choke etc, are nothing I need to control without both hands holding on and you might be surprised what you can come up with making your own center handlebar console ;-}

 

[Pilotgeek]

My button broke, and I just generally dislike it. Hence the "stupid" part =)

Here's my locking clutch:

When you pull the clutch lever a certain distance, a spring locks it in "neutral" without having to manually lock it. When you wish to unlock it, just push the lock forward with your thumb.


And here's my handlebar layout:

The left lever is a friction shifter working as a choke. The right lever is the shift lever.

The reason I have a choke lever is that in Wisconsin, it gets cold, and it's nice to be able to twitch it up or down a little when warming it up. I like to just putt along at about 12mph while warming it up, otherwise it takes forever to warm up under no load. It's only in use for about 30 seconds after a cold startup, but reaching under the seat is quite irritating, so I think it's worth adding.

Hope this helps give you some ideas.
*Insert cheesy bike smiley animation* =P

 

[Sanction]

I guess this thread should have been called cockpit designs.
Although I have been tossing idea's around in my head, I never realized how many options there really is and how different people would choose the layouts.

Seems this is one of those subjects that has no right or wrong answer...

I really like the auto-lock clutch! Kudos on such an elegant but simple design.

I would like to see more pics of cockpit layouts and why you feel the layout serves you best

Should you use the clutch when shifting gears? and if so how would you do this with the clutch and the gear shift on the same side?

All great posts!!!!

ps: I'll stop with the cheesy smiles....

 

[KCvale]

Re: Setup handlebar controls with shifter

Very clever Pilot, nice clutch fix, same for the mirror ;-}

The reason I have a choke lever is that in Wisconsin, it gets cold

Having lived here in the desert for 40+ years I tend to forget that there are cold places hehehe.

I guess this thread should have been called cockpit designs.
Should you use the clutch when shifting gears?

Whatever this topics name it's a fun topic, to me the whole look and feel of the handlebars is 1/2 the bike.

No, you don't want to use the clutch to shift!

You want the drive chain to move when shifting gears, especially on a derailer, you just don't want it under full power.

The beauty of the jackshaft kit is the front and rear free wheels.
Unlike a direct drive, you do not slow down when you back off the throttle.
The motor drops to idle and still engaged, but you still coast along full speed.
I love whizzing by spandex doing 35 at idle ;-}

But back to 'the cockpit'

Your handlebars dictate what you can do and where.
Here is an example from just yesterday.
This guy wants me to motorize his chopper bike. Look at the ape hangers.

For lack of a better term I will just call the ends of a given handlebar, where it is straight and you hold on, the 'hands spot'.

The 'hands spot' on his ape hangers is only 5" long before it bends.
The throttle alone is as long as his grips (6" long). Throttle assembles don't bend like foam grips ;-}

I am out of time but I will assemble all the different handlebar configurations my personal ride has been through this last year.
In short 2 motors, 3 hubs and 3 electrical systems, along with many other different things like lights, switches and speedo's.

This was how they looked a couple of months ago, when the NuVinci Dev Kits remote display/control failed and I set it to manual switch to pick shift tables.

Alcohol may have been involved in the naming ;-}

 

[Sanction]

Well I have a couple pics to post, but It seems I need a website to post them to first before I can link them here. any suggestions for a quick easy way to post pics on this site?

lol, sorry KC I used your forum to post these pics. lol... I hope you don't mind...

My Grubee Skyhawk GT5 Super Rat

And this is the start of a cockpit mockup.

 

[biknut]

My button broke, and I just generally dislike it. Hence the "stupid" part =)

Here's my locking clutch:

Very nice job on the clutch lock.

 

[Pilotgeek]

Thanks for the positive replies =)
Really, there are so many good layouts for the controls. My only problem was managing the resulting mess of cables.

 

[Pilotgeek]

Thanks for the positive replies =)
Really, there are so many good layouts for the controls. My only problem was managing the resulting mess of cables.

 

[Sanction]

My only problem was managing the resulting mess of cables.

Oh thanks Pilot, I haven't gotten that far yet. Here comes another sleepless night with my head screaming through the data and configurations in the nervous system of my build.

 

[KCvale]

lol, sorry KC I used your forum to post these pics. lol... I hope you don't mind...

Naw, I don't mind, just keep your topic with hosted pics updated as well.

Cable Matching... It took me quite a few builds and 2 new tools to get that down. Specifically a Cable Cutter, which is little more than a heavy duty pair of Side Cutters, and a new good regular Side Cutter as well.

Look at any cable the same way, it has 3 parts.
The inner braided cable, the outer shield, and the end pieces.

Inner Braided Cable.
This of course is what mechanically connects each end of a lever.
They are braided for strength, and like to unravel. If you are careful when cutting them and either get them installed promptly or put a cap on them that is dandy.
If you can't, just heating where you want to cut with a soldering iron and putting a little solder in will keep it together after cutting.

Outer Shield.
This is what you route exactly the way you want starting at what it controls for every cable up to the handlebars, and then cut them to make them all match up and play nice at the handlebar controls.

End Pieces.
And this of course is the turd in the punch bowl, the cable ends.

Each end of cable can be either no end, a barrel, or a nipple.

For example the clutch and brake cables have a barrel on the handlebar side, nothing on the other end.
Nothing to it, route it where you want with the barrel end in, and just cut off the outer shield and cable to fit.

The Choke cable has a nipple at the carb end and bare at the lever end, again cut to size but this time sizing from the carb side.

The turd is the throttle cable.
Barrel at the throttle end, nipple at the carb end.
To do this, or any other two ended cable, you need to be able to install ends.

No, a squeeze on lead fishing weight won't hold.

I did find some spiffy barrel ends kind of like our clutch cable ends with the screw, except it was an inset Allan set screw in the end of barrel so that once tightened on the cable it was just a barrel, but my local bike store can't get them anymore and I haven't found any more.

At least that way you can cut the throttle cable at the barrel end and put one back on.

I hope that helps with your cable dilemma ;-}

 

[Sanction]

Thanks KC, that makes me comfortable doing the cables with a loose end. But the evil double ended cables are a cruel joke on the end user. Nice explanation, Kudos!

 

[Sanction]

OK back to layouts.

I have given this allot of thought. Going through what parts I already have, learning the clutch is only needed for stops and starts, I have formulated my first layout.

left side starting from the end
twist 7 speed shifter
Clutch
Choke

Middle from the left
GPS
Tachometer
Speedometer

Light above tire

Right side starting from the end
Throttle/kill switch
double pull rocker brake

This configuration seems to fit the bill for operating the shifter/gas, clutch/gas or clutch/brake simultaneously. However if the clutch was needed to shift gears, then I would have gone with the thumb shifter on the right.

 

[ToxicAz520]

Sounds like you have got a good plan going. Look forward to pics of the final layout.

 

[Sanction]

I say single shift control because for a derailleur bike the JS kit replaces your whole front pedal assembly and the front derailleur is removed.
All you get is the back gears.

I was giving that a thought, what if you moved the drive gear to the left side of the pedal crank using the crank it's self as the jack shaft? You would still need to use a freewheel, but the shift kit would no longer be needed. With this configuration you would have full use of the front derailleur and all the bikes gears.
Motor drive gear to sprocket on left side of freewheel peddle crank. I would think because the crank is directly below the engine, you would need to put a couple gears on the frame to make the corner. Or modify the engine casing to allow the direct drop down to the peddle crank. could save a bit of money and improve the number of gear ratio's that could be used. Let me know what you think KC. Or anyone else for that matter!

Damn I wish I had a welder right now....