Actually, you should read the new TL-10 page 28 of the newest revision of 20 April 2011 before making such statements of me trying to make a buck from uniformed people, such as yourself. Not only have I went up to bat for my customers and their rights to ride too and from work and where ever they need to go with the state and local Law enforcement i have also coordinated with the DMV of the state of Florida to make a ruling on where they stand with the motorized bicycle. All these things I have done for YOU and everyone else that loves or needs to ride a motorized bicycle in the state of Florida. As far as the letter head you look for, it's at the top of every page of TL-10. Which is in fact an offical Florida DMV document.
Florida law - registration required!!!
- Thread starter worksmanFL
- Start date
This was taken from the first poster. He didn't read the whole statue....
Scenario: A company is advertising on TV a gas engine kit that can be added
to a bicycle. The engine is tied into the pedal system like a Moped
and it has to be pedaled to start the engine. It is advertised that the
bicycle will be propelled to 30MPH.
Q. How is the tax collector supposed to register this bicycle/gas engine
assembly?
A. The definition of bicycle under s. 316.003(2), F.S., includes
motorized bicycles. Bicycles are not registered or titled.
Engine kits for bicycles are not new and there are a variety of
kits available, however, they remain bicycles after the engine
kit is installed. There are other requirements that must be met
to be classified as a motorcycle/scooter/moped such as frame
assembly and safety features. If a customer brings in
paperwork for a bicycle, they cannot be legally issued a title or
registration nor is it required. The agent should also direct the
customer to law enforcement if there are any questions as to
where the motorized bicycle can be used.
Re: Florida law - registration N O T required as of 04/20/2011!!!
Thank you very much for the update, and I also thank you (and i'm sure the entire FL MB Community would like to thank you) for your efforts with DMV Tallahassee.
Now how do we let the FL MB community know of the 4/20/2011 update...
(For all who cares, my post #2 has the March 15,2011 update copy/pasted.)
Hey Jeff,
Thank you very much for the update, and I also thank you (and i'm sure the entire FL MB Community would like to thank you) for your efforts with DMV Tallahassee.
Now how do we let the FL MB community know of the 4/20/2011 update...
(For all who cares, my post #2 has the March 15,2011 update copy/pasted.)
Re: Florida law - registration N O T required as of 04/20/2011!!!
For all you "Sunshine State" 's print out the statue and carry it with you. Poor guys that got suckered into registration and those that paid for a tag.
Go to your original post and click onto the link you provided http://www3.flhsmv.gov/DMV/Proc/TL/TL-10.PDF ...now go to page 28 and read....
For all you "Sunshine State" 's print out the statue and carry it with you. Poor guys that got suckered into registration and those that paid for a tag.
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Re: Florida law - registration N O T required as of 04/20/2011!!!
I did read the update.
?
I did read the update.
Re: Florida law - registration N O T required as of 04/20/2011!!!
I would say e-mail chains or even craigslist. I have updated my website with the newest news and also the fastest way I have seen so far is word of mouth. I have told well over hundred people so far myself that I know will pass it along to others. This is exciting on many levels for everyone in the state of Florida. With the price of gas on the rise we now have a secure place on the road with our MB's.
Re: Florida law - registration N O T required as of 04/20/2011!!!
Let's not get off track. The documentation you will need is the TL-10 not the Statue. TL-10 give the strict guidance that law enforcement will need to see. This will take some time for everyone to be on the same page, so please be patient.
That PDF OBVIOUSLY changes every month, I no longer will use that as an argument ever again...
One month it says, you can't register, next month it says you HAVE to register, then the next month it's back to, you can't.
HOWEVER.. That speaks to "gas bicycle" registration as a "moped" (which can and does change apparently every month), and has nothing to do with the need of a drivers license to ride one.
One month it says, you can't register, next month it says you HAVE to register, then the next month it's back to, you can't.
HOWEVER.. That speaks to "gas bicycle" registration as a "moped" (which can and does change apparently every month), and has nothing to do with the need of a drivers license to ride one.
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Quick question:
What "vehicle" that you know of that does NOT require registration and tags, requires a drivers license?
a. a skateboard?
b. rollerskates?
c. a pogo stick?
d. N O N E - NO SUCH VEHICLE.
Answer: d
A drivers license is NOT required to ride a gas motorized bicycle.
I guess i'd be wrong if you can provide a signed document on DMV letterhead stating otherwise.
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According to the state statute regarding "vehicles", NONE of those ARE "vehicles" and/because you can't use any of those things on the road either.
In reference to DL...
"Registration Law" and "Driver's License Law" are mutually exclusive.*
DMV says no registration...
FL Statutes describe a "moped"
DMV states that if you ride a "moped" you need at least a Class E driver's license
So, at this exact moment in time...
If you're riding a gas powered bicycle OR an electric bike capable of speeds greater than 20mph, and a cop pulls you over..
You can NOT be ticketed for "unregistered motor vehicle".
(Since DMV says you can't register it)*
You CAN be ticketed for driving a "motor vehicle" without a valid license.*
(Better known as DWLS - Driving While License Suspended or no driver's license).
DMV states you can't register a bicycle with a gas motor on it as a moped, that doesn't mean that the definition of a moped (in the Florida statutes) changes.*
Let's say for an instant, you don't need a license..
What happens tomorrow or next week or next month, when that PDF changes (again).*
Are you or anyone else going to check the DMV PDFs every day?*
(Which reminds me, what website do I go to, to look for these "procedural documents?")
P.S. Let me ask you this..
Let's say I have an electric bicycle with a top speed capable of 25mph..
Well Florida statute says that an ebike is a bicycle only if it's only capable of 20mph tops.*
So what am I riding then?
Am I riding a bicycle or a moped?
Well, I'm not riding a bicycle, because the statutes say, I'm only allowed 20mph top speed to remain as just a bicycle...
So, if I'm not a bicycle, am I a moped? How do we figure that out? Well, you have to look at the Florida statutes and see I'm classified as a moped. (Can I register it as one? - Who knows?)
So you're telling me, a gas powered bicycle with top speeds between 20-30 mph, doesn't require a license to ride, but my electric one does?
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Here's another question...
Florida statutes say, in order to ride an electric bike, you have to be 16.
Well, no such law is written for a "gas powered" bicycle... So does that mean, an 8 year old can ride a gas powered bicycle, doing 40mph in the road (bike lane), while a 15 year old can't ride an electric bike doing 10mph in that same road?
That makes no sense.
Florida statutes say, in order to ride an electric bike, you have to be 16.
Well, no such law is written for a "gas powered" bicycle... So does that mean, an 8 year old can ride a gas powered bicycle, doing 40mph in the road (bike lane), while a 15 year old can't ride an electric bike doing 10mph in that same road?
That makes no sense.
Let me make something clear from the Pensacola, Fl DMV compliance office. If it came from the factory as a bicycle and you install an electric motor or a specifically made gas engine kit, or even a "jet motor" it reamains a bicycle. These questions you ask are being directed in the wrong direction. Start calling your districts DMV compliance office so you have your contacts and answers from them. Contact your DMV office so you can get your answers from them. All these points you are bringing up I brought up in 2009 and finally got it straighten out at the head office 20 April 2011. You are reading way too much in to this for what it really is.
I think you missed my point in that last question..
Given that scenario, it should be obvious....
Of course an 8 year old shouldn't be allowed to ride a 30mph capable gas powered bicycle.
According to those that think that just because you can't register a gas powered bike, that you don't need a license, then I could possibly add a 250cc motorcycle engine, now since I can't register it, I don't need a license now and my 8 year old could take it out on the road and do 110mph.. Well guess what.. Not gonna happen.. Think about it...
So there's only two possibilities, either...
1.) You need a license.
Or
2.) Since you can't register it for use on the road, it's not allowed on the road at all.
(You can't register a normal bicycle either, but we all know you are allowed to use a normal bicycle on the road)
Unless you can come up with another possibility, it looks like #1 is it.
You have to think logically.
Given that scenario, it should be obvious....
Of course an 8 year old shouldn't be allowed to ride a 30mph capable gas powered bicycle.
According to those that think that just because you can't register a gas powered bike, that you don't need a license, then I could possibly add a 250cc motorcycle engine, now since I can't register it, I don't need a license now and my 8 year old could take it out on the road and do 110mph.. Well guess what.. Not gonna happen.. Think about it...
So there's only two possibilities, either...
1.) You need a license.
Or
2.) Since you can't register it for use on the road, it's not allowed on the road at all.
(You can't register a normal bicycle either, but we all know you are allowed to use a normal bicycle on the road)
Unless you can come up with another possibility, it looks like #1 is it.
You have to think logically.
Lol...
As long as they are riding on their own property and are not on the public roads, they need a helmet if they are under 16.
As long as they are riding on their own property and are not on the public roads, they need a helmet if they are under 16.
OR, you an do what I said earlier and get an ELECTRIC one and then you don't have to worry about "the pigs" or whether it's gonna change legality every week or month.
Hi Ron,
Just to clarify, I did read the whole statute.
The DMV Doc from 03/15 is different than the 04/20 Doc and only the new Doc is available for view.
Post #2 on this thread has the 03/15 copy/paste, (which of course is different)
Here is the OLD 03/15 main point:
If a gas engine kit is installed on a bicycle, which is
not rated in excess of 2 brake horsepower and not capable of
propelling the vehicle at a speed greater than 30 mph on level
ground, the vehicle would fall within the classification of a
moped and be required to be registered as a moped.
So until the laws/ statutes state that you are allowed to ride on PUBLIC roads with a gas motorized bicycle, it seems that we are in a grey area of the law yet again. (Even though there is the 04/20 update)
I do have my tag and registration, so if they the local police officers try give me a ticket for no reg, they cant. ( and I do have my DL)
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From Latest PDF said:
So then according to the new PDF, your tag and registration for your bike would not be legal now (since it can't be 'Legally' issued). Good point to make with them when the tag renewal statement is mailed to you.worksmanFL said:
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I dont like "stirring the pot" too much. In my shoes, the "grey" is area of the law is ok with me.
No, I wont make mention of the updated dmv info. as i'd like to keep my "insurance policy" (reg and tag). The way I see it, i'm grandfathered in.
Welcome to the forum!
Hi All,
For those Registered FL Gas MBers = Homemade Moped riders, I found some legal stuff about fines and points, FYI.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...qqplVq&sig=AHIEtbQmlNPFbgY5HN5yXfuBCOChBQx16Q
Relatively small fines individually, BUT 3 Points to your license. I guess this point penalty can be lessened via a defensive driving course i'm guessing.
I guess its a risk i'm willing to take.
Ride That Thing!
For those Registered FL Gas MBers = Homemade Moped riders, I found some legal stuff about fines and points, FYI.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...qqplVq&sig=AHIEtbQmlNPFbgY5HN5yXfuBCOChBQx16Q
Relatively small fines individually, BUT 3 Points to your license. I guess this point penalty can be lessened via a defensive driving course i'm guessing.
I guess its a risk i'm willing to take.
Ride That Thing!