I'm retiring

[bitsnpieces]

I can not understand that. Here is something that might help.

,..!,..

Not sure what that's supposed to mean exactly but that's surely more of what moderators should be looking out for.

Look, 2door, and any other mods and admins, I appreciate the fact that you guys moderator and look out for erroneus information, but just don't jump the gun too easily on things.

If I received a warning maybe not to post too much into a thread or to be more specific in details or such to make it easier to understand, I would have been fine, I know I don't have the best of literacy skills at times, but a little notice of things is a lot better than saying my experiences and knowledge is naught which I don't think the job of mods and admins is to belittle others...

 

[TxBikeRider]

Not sure what that's supposed to mean exactly but that's surely more of what moderators should be looking out for.

Look, 2door, and any other mods and admins, I appreciate the fact that you guys moderator and look out for erroneus information, but just don't jump the gun too easily on things.

If I received a warning maybe not to post too much into a thread or to be more specific in details or such to make it easier to understand, I would have been fine, I know I don't have the best of literacy skills at times, but a little notice of things is a lot better than saying my experiences and knowledge is naught which I don't think the job of mods and admins is to belittle others...

Just commenting on how hard mbuna's post was to read. I thought it ironic that when someone is talking about being singled out, they wrote in a way that was hard to read.

 

[bitsnpieces]

Ah Okay; I didn't have too many problems reading it so wasn't sure what those signs were referring to.

I just remember they were generally used to create a simple middle finger gesture so wasn't sure if you were being serious or ironic. LOL

Sorry TxBikerider.

 

[TxBikeRider]

Sorry..no finger intended at all..I was just offering him some puntuation marks.

 

[bitsnpieces]

LOL As 2door states, we make mistakes, and as I said, I don't use abbreviations much, so I got it mixed up.

 

[TxBikeRider]

I am new here, so take what I say for what it is worth. The moderators on most sites are volunteers. They do their best. Often they consult with other moderators and admin. The only problem is that when someone is corrected they feel slighted and take it personally. There is no cure for this, it is something that happens.

But look at it this way: If that moderator was not there, could you imagine the amount of useless space and time that would be created? Would it be about what the site is there for.....or would it be about whatever someone wanted at the moment.

 

[bitsnpieces]

What you say is absolutely true TxBikeRider, but if you read back what this thread has all be about, the moderators believe I have done something wrong, I don't believe so.

I have provided reasons why I believe I have conducted within forum rules but they have not provide anything other than repeat the rules, which I don't see how they are applicable to the situation; just trying to make a point.

But as I mentioned earlier, if my literacy skills have failed me, please let me know.

 

[TxBikeRider]

Well, if that is the case, then they are very lenient. Wouldn't you agree? You say that they feel you were wronged, yet they allow this thread to continue. There is a disconnect there......if they were that hard on you for what you did then how are we talking about it.

Again, please do not take it personally.....but rethink this rant.

 

[bitsnpieces]

I don't think them allowing this post here is being lenient, is because they pretty much have to.

I could easily delete this thread but that would serve no useful purpose.

Exactly, the purpose it would fail by deleting this thread is that this is an open discussion forum, specially since this is the tavern which is an open ended area.
By deleting it will only abuse the authority he has as a moderator.

As annoyed as I am of the decision the moderators, I personally can't care less, worse has happened in life, this is nothing. Just remember, I did say I made this post out of boredom.

 

[oldtimer54]

Well, if that is the case, then they are very lenient. Wouldn't you agree? You say that they feel you were wronged, yet they allow this thread to continue. There is a disconnect there......if they were that hard on you for what you did then how are we talking about it.

Again, please do not take it personally.....but rethink this rant.

Well maybe now that its been posted they dont want to seem too hard on the guy? Ever think of that? You rethink your reply. Funny how you Texans love to tell people what to do! (not) After the Texan in the White House Iam getting real tiered of Texans telling us what to do.

 

[hiker472]

It doesn't sound like you're "retiring" ably........

The moderators have quite the job on this site and in my opinion, do a great job. So what if you had a post or two deleted, or even a little reprimand.

Who really cares??

 

[bitsnpieces]

Just having some fun while at it is all... Not going down without a fight I say!

[In the voice of Lieutenant Frank Drebin]
It's like throwing an old man into early retirement before he can say "Nurse... I need a new diaper"...
[/end voice]

 

[BarelyAWake]

P.S. Yes I'm being a little more cynical about this because I'm bored... We all need a bit of drama to excite out lives right? Like I said, we are in the tavern after all; what do you think happens in a tavern/pub/bar?

The bouncers kick the drama queens to the curb so everyone else can enjoy their night.

Personally? I find this petulant rant grossly offensive, "out of boredom" you're insulting my friends, myself - even what this forum stands for. Yet despite my distaste, as staff I am as constrained by the rules as anyone else - if not more so. Although, I must point out that you actually are bordering on violating rule 1: http://motorbicycling.com/f21/please-read-these-simple-rules-2.html;

Continued public strife and arguing rudely with another member or staff will also be deleted. Should repeated warnings be ignored - that's when bans happen. We really don't like banning people, please don't force our hand with public displays.

The Tavern is an "open" forum - but that doesn't mean we'll continue to allow a public bash fest.

I don't know the specifics about this particular incident nor wish to debate them, but rest assured that I do know our staff and our methods here and there's without a doubt no power mongers to be had. Simply put, Paul wouldn't stand for it, he's far to nice a guy - anyone who's interacted with him would know that.

We, the staff of motorbicycling.com have one primary goal, it even defines all the others and that's the protection of our memberbase. This means banning spammers, bots and haters, intervening in misunderstandings and fights and cleaning up the mess - and yes, even sometimes correcting misrepresentations and bad information. Thing is, there's a lot of members here and more every day, unlike the average member we do try and check up on all of it, even if we're personally disinterested in the topic.

...and yes, believe it or not we are humans - we've different manners, styles, interests, time and goals. While some may have noticed I personally tend to be long-winded and have a penchant for PMing, not all our staff is as prone to explaining at length evey action they feel it necessary to take. Honestly I can't blame them, it can take an impressive amount of time and effort to compose a reply for even a comparatively minor problem - particularly publicly as no matter the issue it'll polarize the audience and that means hostile conflict, something we strive to avoid as it is after all one of the reasons we're here.

If you take a moment to consider the sheer number of active members, how few staff we have and how long they've been here - you may see why some choose to quietly remove troublesome posts instead of risking the member's public humiliation. Why some choose to send a quick PM notifying of the action, figuring if there's more to it the member will respond accordingly and it'll get sorted. If for some reason it gets out of control, there's always other staff members to act as an intermediaries and worst case - yes, you can actually report a staff member just like you can with any other member and it'll get reviewed by all staff including the administration.

Still, the memberbase here and the site's general philosophy makes this a pretty easygoing place - despite the number of members and the small handful of staff, you'll notice problems like this one are rare. We try our best to resolve issues while considering everyone's best interests and that's not always the easiest task, sometimes that even means risking hurting someone's feelings. If a staff member thinks someone's advice is consistently endangering our members, they're obligated to correct it. If they persist, remove it & if it still continues, PM them - if staff is ignored then punitive actions are required. I have no clue why some think this is rewarding in any way, why some cry "power monger" and discrimination... honestly? It's a pain in the *** and fills us with a sense of futility every time - we failed to be able to "moderate" the situation and and had to resort to stronger measures.

A "power monger's" glory is derived from public spectacle, the humiliation of those lacking the ability to protest. This is in so many ways exactly the opposite of what the staff here does or even stands accused of. We fully understand that there's more than one side to any story, all we ask is you remember we've one too and act accordingly - even if that means shelving the angst and talking to someone else to resolve the issue instead of making a scene.

Feel free to PM myself or any other staff anytime, even the administration if you feel it warrants it.

 

[bitsnpieces]

Hi BarelyAWake,

Thank you for your reply and I am sorry if I have offended you and Paul, and anyone else who may not be involved with this situation.

I know my comment of how I posted this to kill a bit of time is a bit harsh, but after reading the PM, it left me very displeased and just wanted to get it off my chest. I can't exactly say I was still in the happy mood of things and having fun; a very displeased frown generally leads to a bored experience...

I'm not here to point fingers or put people down; this thread was merely made to express what had happened and also wanting to know why.
I provided my side of the argument, which I don't know about you, but fail to see how I was detrimental to the questioner.
So I want to know why.

As I said in an earlier post, I still respect you all, at the end of the day, you guys have been here longer than I have, more knowledgeable than I am, more experienced, but at the same time, I find it hard to say I can still hold that much esteem for you all morally speaking, personally, IMO.

If a staff member thinks someone's advice is consistently endangering our members, they're obligated to correct it. If they persist, remove it & if it still continues, PM them - if staff is ignored then punitive actions are required. I have no clue why some think this is rewarding in any way, why some cry "power monger" and discrimination... honestly? It's a pain in the *** and fills us with a sense of futility every time - we failed to be able to "moderate" the situation and and had to resort to stronger measures.

Now, can you personally tell me, is asking the questioner a question to clarify the situation, and providing possible scenarios in the mean time with no mention that any of those is a definitive solution to the problem until further information can be provided to better troubleshoot the problem, is that detrimental to the questioner?
What do you 'think'?
If you think it is, fine, I will take it all back, I guess my English has hugely failed me and I'm sorry; you can ignore the rest of this post.
But if not, can you understand my disappointment then?

From your comment above, it seems the procedure to handling a problem is to speculate and take action; I don't notice any clarifying or correcting in that process in your above comment; let's break it down.

1. If a staff member thinks there's a problem, they must correct it. The keyword is that they think there's a problem, something based on their own opinion of right and wrong, given the fact that we all have opinions, we are not always right also.
Now, if my memory serves me well, only a small number of things that I have said have been corrected on, but any advice I had given were always possibilities, not definite, and to evaluate the situation more before definite answers can be provided. The corrections I did receive I have taken them and learned. However, many have not been mention as incorrect nor corrected if they were, so I would presume I'm doing an okay job at trying to be a good member.

2. If they persist, remove those misguided posts, and if it continues, PM them.
Again, I didn't know my posts were disappearing or I was doing anything wrong, suddenly I get a PM that I have had multiple posts removed. I would have presumed it was to the one thread topic only, but from what I can make out of the PM, it's been happening for a while now.

I've monitored your posts for a while now and I consistantly see erroneous information and some of it is just downright wrong.

So then are you telling me I was treated fairly and given a chance to learn?
I hardly think so, personally, as I had no warning, or guidance, no idea I had been doing the wrong thing, only to get slapped.

I'm not trying to have a go against you, I can see that you're all trying to do what you need to do to keep the , I get it.
All I'm saying is, is it possible to have a little more courtesy, maybe?
I personally see things as if you're going to do something, do it right.
It's along the philosophy of, if you don't like the job, why are you doing it?
So if this is something you're passionate about, show it, in everything that you do. I know it isn't easy, we all have busy lives, but even trying will have a different influence.

I'm simply trying to be a good and helpful member, learning as I go, yet I am not receiving any support to further this.
The way I see it, it's like there is no law against something that someone is doing at the moment, but the police still like to book people on this, and their statement is always, "Didn't you know the law?"
Yet, what law? That's the irony of this which is what's causing my displeasure here as I have had no warning, no anything. Been left there to think I was doing okay, only to get a penalty out of the blue.

Now, as to why I made this thread also?

A "power monger's" glory is derived from public spectacle, the humiliation of those lacking the ability to protest. This is in so many ways exactly the opposite of what the staff here does or even stands accused of. We fully understand that there's more than one side to any story, all we ask is you remember we've one too and act accordingly - even if that means shelving the angst and talking to someone else to resolve the issue instead of making a scene.

I think that explains it any better than I could come up with. I'm not here to say you guys are power mongers, just someone, or a number of, have used the powers you have with good intention, but unfortunately has unfairly dealt it, IMO.

So rather than being here to name call and point fingers or make light of your job, I've merely tried to express how I felt, but wanted to more fully understand the reasons why this all happened.

Because I don't know who are involved, and I have had bad experiences in the past, and read of such experiences from others, where a moderator may make a mistake, but to cover it up, they all agree together rather than taking full responsibility, I left it here more for an open discussion for anyone to express their views, specially moderators.
It's as they say, in a tense and delicate atmosphere as this, true colours can be seen.

If I am a drama queen, so be it. But I do it with purpose. I didn't come here to stir up random bashing, but to bring up a legitimate issue of how I was treated.

 

[BarelyAWake]

You mention courtesy - did it occur to you that by the "quiet" interventions of removing posts and sending private messages is utilized specifically to avoid your public embarrassment?

It seems to me the main thrust of your expressed displeasure is the lack of communication between yourself and the staff member, I can see that as a valid problem. The trick of it is, did you make any attempt to rectify that yourself in a respectful fashion - namely continuing the correspondence with said staff member in the interest of a resolution and/or privately consulting any of our other staff?

No, you chose to make a public thread bemoaning your unfair treatment instead, which as it appears to me means you're far more interested in attention than resolution.

I understand, even regret your disappointment - and you're right, all staff action should most likely be accompanied by some sort of private notification, but this is my personal opinion and not actually forum policy. It's in fact borderline impossible... no offense, but you are actually only one of tens of thousands of members - if we took the time to initiate correspondence for every single action, we'd have no time for said correspondence. Generally speaking we reserve that for the more problematic issues - like a member respectfully contesting an intervention.

I would have been more than happy to assist you with this dilemma, as would all of our staff had you simply pursued it in a reasonable fashion. I still am actually and so is the rest of the staff obviously, as evidenced by your continued membership and the existence of this thread...

...but I feel I must point out what I think would be obvious - that no effective resolution can be achieved through public spectacle. If we were to continue to pursue this publicly it will result in embarrassment as there's the ever expectant audience, those few that delight in not striving towards a solution - but relishing any opportunity to belittle and exaggerate, to create a far larger problem than what the original issue may have been.

Your intent may not have been "to stir up random bashing" - but that's exactly what happens in situations like these. I ask for your consideration - what would it be like if the staff here decided to create public threads lamenting all of the things we personally find onerous about specific members? How would you have felt if the staff had publicly posted the contents of that PM instead of to you personally?

As we've both pointed out - we're all human and mistakes are made, but I can guarantee there's no reconciliation in humiliation. I will not publicly discuss your or anyone else's shortcomings in front of an audience. It never results in anything other than "making a mountain out of a molehill" as is clearly evidenced by this thread.

 

[bitsnpieces]

You mention courtesy - did it occur to you that by the "quiet" interventions of removing posts and sending private messages is utilized specifically to avoid your public embarrassment?

To me, if it was an unfair decision, I find it hiding. Courtesy would simply have been to let me know I was wrong; we all make mistakes and we learn from them.
Instead, my post is gone, huh? Oh, I have a PM and it reads "You are downright wrong." Gee, thanks.
"We request that you no longer try helping until further notice." Oh, great. Well, thanks for the courtesy of telling me so.

It seems to me the main thrust of your expressed displeasure is the lack of communication between yourself and the staff member, I can see that as a valid problem. The trick of it is, did you make any attempt to rectify that yourself in a respectful fashion - namely continuing the correspondence with said staff member in the interest of a resolution and/or privately consulting any of our other staff?

I have sent a PM but have not received a personal reply, only the same message only more elaborate in this thread.
But you're right, maybe I should have waited longer for a reply.

No, you chose to make a public thread bemoaning your unfair treatment instead, which as it appears to me means you're far more interested in attention than resolution.

I would have been more than happy to assist you with this dilemma, as would all of our staff had you simply pursued it in a reasonable fashion. I still am actually and so is the rest of the staff obviously, as evidenced by your continued membership and the existence of this thread...

And I thank you all for that, maybe I am subconsciously seeking attention, or maybe I just wanted to bring up an issue.
As I said, past experiences aren't pleasant where private conversations lead nowhere, I just like to have a voice and throw in my 2 cents.

Your intent may not have been "to stir up random bashing" - but that's exactly what happens in situations like these. I ask for your consideration - what would it be like if the staff here decided to create public threads lamenting all of the things we personally find onerous about specific members? How would you have felt if the staff had publicly posted the contents of that PM instead of to you personally?

I've taken the liberty of doing so already in showcasing my point here.

As we've both pointed out - we're all human and mistakes are made, but I can guarantee there's no reconciliation in humiliation. I will not publicly discuss your or anyone else's shortcomings in front of an audience. It never results in anything other than "making a mountain out of a molehill" as is clearly evidenced by this thread.

You are correct. This thread was initially a rant to get things off my chest, whether or not a discussion ensues; I will PM you from here on to resolve this.

Thank you for your time BarelyAWake.

 

[Fulltimer]

I think everyone needs to have a

and end this discussion. The OP and the mod will never come to an agreement on this subject. So, drop it.

Terry

 

[BarelyAWake]

...maybe I should have waited longer for a reply.

It occurs to me, somewhat belatedly - that this alone may have exasperated the problem. Not to redirect from the other issues, but I find there's a somewhat common expectation that this forum and even private messages are somehow in real time...

Sadly, other than the chatbox of course this simply isn't the case. All of the staff have outside obligations as well and we've no set schedules on the forum - I have the mixed blessing of being a "IT professional" and as such, can spend a disproportionate amount of time on the boards... while I should be working ofc *shrug*

So, it's somewhat normal for at least a 24hr turn around regarding messages with most (usual browsing times) and may even take longer depending on whatever is going on "IRL" with that particular individual... regrettable but that's the way it is.

This is ofc another reason we've more than one staff member - if it's a "major" problem, messages can be forwarded to any/all staff & the "report post" feature (lil exclamation point icon in the top right of the message in question) not only does that automatically, but functions with private messages as well.

 

[bitsnpieces]

I think everyone needs to have a

and end this discussion. The OP and the mod will never come to an agreement on this subject. So, drop it.

Terry

I actually don't drink; but maybe that's how this all started - Someone spiked my water... I thought it tasted funny...

It occurs to me, somewhat belatedly - that this alone may have exasperated the problem. Not to redirect from the other issues, but I find there's a somewhat common expectation that this forum and even private messages are somehow in real time...

Oh no... I realised that... I just wanted to get things off my chest as I was just very displeased... I know I should have been more rational about the situation...

Thanks again for your replies BarelyAWake.

 

[oldtimer54]

Kim your a good guy and we will be less of a site if you go but you have to do what you feel is right. The way I see it is (ya I know I know Iam not part of this but anyway.....) Ive had plenty of posts deleted with out one word (even was given a day or two off lol) but I trust the mods here and yes even the two your talking about so I felt they where just trying to keep every thing going smooth for the members and the forum. I didnt take it personal. Then again I ilke the two mods you are talking about. At some stage ya gots ta trust someone and seeing how much help these two mods give ALL the time (when there not being mods that is wink) I say give them a brake and dont go but DO move on lol. Peace