BTR Tanks Angst

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joabthebugman

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Jun 21, 2010
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I have never seen a group of people so ready to feel offended in my life

Am I the only person here that sees that the OP is simply talking about a quality built tank liner that would then be covered by a decorative shell, which would eliminate the need for a one size only (generic) tank and would open up possibilities for multi style tanks in fiberglass or some other material

But anyway Hoodoo
Cannonball is on target, I think, with your concept
You could also use plian old PVC pipe lined with kreem
There are some very custom looking fiberglass tanks on ebay that could be used as shells
 

K-dregg

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Well as i see it those products already exists.. if you just want a quality tank to put inside a shell you could by a plastic scooter tank for 14 bucks on ebay and use that..?

Personally i think that the only tank that could be considered generic is the stock tank.
 

momentummotorgroup

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Apr 10, 2009
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those who cant: teach. Those who can't teach: become critics.

instead of criticizing others who are creating parts at an earnest revenue, try building one yourself and see how well it goes. Chances are after you spend the $400+ on the tig welder, the gas, the metal and the hardware, that $300 custom tank someone else is selling is going to look a whole lot more reasonable.
 

hoodoo

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Dec 26, 2009
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those who cant: teach. Those who can't teach: become critics.

instead of criticizing others who are creating parts at an earnest revenue, try building one yourself and see how well it goes. Chances are after you spend the $400+ on the tig welder, the gas, the metal and the hardware, that $300 custom tank someone else is selling is going to look a whole lot more reasonable.
Who is criticizing anyone's work on this thread?
Who is criticizing the reasonableness of the prices of the products discussed?
What particular post is offending you?...you seem offended.
It's always better to quote the particular post that offends you so folks can get a better picture on what you are commenting.
 

hoodoo

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Dec 26, 2009
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Well as i see it those products already exists.. if you just want a quality tank to put inside a shell you could by a plastic scooter tank for 14 bucks on ebay and use that..?

Personally i think that the only tank that could be considered generic is the stock tank.
Actually, although I have the tanks I need for future bikes (I am only going the stretched bike route now that I have built one of both--I prefer the stretched bikes and the particular metal tanks I have will fit a modified bike but they are hard to find AND will not fit a normal worksman or husky). I would like to be able to recommend a particular tank to friends that would fit the purpose for both types of frames. What I am talking about is a tank that anyone can find and use without having to spend time trying to figure out which one....and adapt with the least amount of fuss. There are indeed a number of plastic options out there but none I have found so far that really do the job yet. Do you have a link for the scooter tank you are referring too? I would like to look at it. Again, I am trying to point my finger at one particular tank or source, probably no more that six inches wide with an offset spout, about three inches high, and no more than about 12" long...that should hold enough fuel for most purposes and fit just about any style of BTR.

I can see your point about "generic" being the stock tank but as those tanks are not used on true BTR's you can't call them anything in BTR context. The "Reading" style tanks that are being offered in stretched and standard version are the only custom tank that is being offered....if you are going to buy a tank I think they are the only game in town. They are as close to being the "stock" purchased tank for BTR's unless someone starts offering a different style. Generic might have been the wrong word, perhaps "single style" tank might have been better.
 

bairdco

a guy who makes cool bikes
Aug 18, 2009
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...Am I the only person here that sees that the OP is simply talking about a quality built tank liner that would then be covered by a decorative shell, which would eliminate the need for a one size only (generic) tank and would open up possibilities for multi style tanks in fiberglass or some other materials...
yes, i think you are the only person here that sees that.
 

K-dregg

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Apr 20, 2010
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This is what quick ebay search turned up.. Might be to big?

47CC GAS TANK 2 STROKE Mini Pocket Bike Scooter GT06 - eBay (item 380124165933 end time Feb-02-11 19:34:37 PST)

And this one..

Gman 2qt Plastic Fuel Tank Go Kart Racing - eBay (item 120645390386 end time Feb-07-11 12:06:40 PST)


Another option besides buying a tank for 300 from a vendor is having one made for you, thats what i did.. I went down to my local metal fabrication shop and asked if they could help me out,
I payed about 140 bucks for it but its stainless and pretty much bomb proof..
 

Goat Herder

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Apr 28, 2008
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I have never seen a group of people so ready to feel offended in my life

Am I the only person here that sees that the OP is simply talking about a quality built tank liner that would then be covered by a decorative shell, which would eliminate the need for a one size only (generic) tank and would open up possibilities for multi style tanks in fiberglass or some other material

But anyway Hoodoo
Cannonball is on target, I think, with your concept
You could also use plian old PVC pipe lined with kreem
There are some very custom looking fiberglass tanks on ebay that could be used as shells
Arighty then for the record I am not offended at all just amused. Lets just say its a pipe of any kind of material ever as cheap as you could ever find it? When ya put all your time and effort in you could have just made a tank like others have done from scratch. :)

What material works the easiest to use then? Plywood, 2x4's, clay, Plaster , bondo , fiberglass ?

Here is an idea make one then! Make it any shape you want from the start! Just like molding clay pots you can do eeet!! There is another huge major point to make here as well you will wind up with a decent fuel capacity this way instead of a small pipe that can accommodate all the above mentioned cobbled up materials and any so called bike frame. Man! not all bike frames are the same. Bottom line if'n ya feel a need to cobble why not make a tank instead?! ''shrug''

http://motorbicycling.com/f23/custom-gas-tank-dvd-26656.html



All right I will go to Home Depot tomorrow and make a bunch of plain old pipes then offer them for sale for the guy that wants to cobble or needed a really cheap tank. How long till that fizzles out? How are these Plywood, 2x4's, clay, Plaster , bondo , fiberglass creations going to be made interchangeable on the super fly? Velcro, Medal snaps, Glue? The real question is why not make a tank from scratch then!!! It will no doubt be less trouble prolly cheaper in materials and less grief in the long run. I am thinking..

One could make plain ol fiber glass tanks. They could perhaps make a dozen to fit there particular bike and its manufactured potential out of plumb quirks. Then when ever they are bored they can put their other custom made tanks on their one of a kind bike frame that's just for these tanks made to match just that bike! :D


Or you can figure out that perfect flawless finish over a generic piece of pipe! The funny question is how much labor are we talking?

Gotta please forgive me here just not getting it?

You and Hoodoo want a generic gas bladder that you folks can put forth time money and effort for all this said stuff or what?:confused:

There are lots of pictorials on the forum and documentation of fiberglass tanks!
 

joabthebugman

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Jun 21, 2010
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Like I aid
I have never seen a group of people so ready and needing to feel offended

Don't know what to tell you Bairdco, perhaps there is a remedial reading course being offered at you local adult education center
For those of you like me who don't have the ability to make our own tanks it is still cool to make covers, but it is hard to find suitable tanks you can cover up. A simple smallish rectangular or cylindrical tank that could fit a standard worksman frame (or anything larger) and viola, tank covers could be built out of just about anything and if one got bored, they could build a different cover for a different look without major changes to the bike. Maybe there are some out there? I would not mind buying a built tank if I could control the cosmetics of it. I presume a very simple "undertank" would be significantly less than those magnificent but still generic tanks.
Goat Herder
I read that post at least three times and saw not one comment about Pat's tanks being over priced
I saw a call for originality and innovation
Pat's tanks are great, no one disputes that, but they are his tanks to be used on his builds or imitations of his builds
Like the man said they will bring praise in your neighborhood, but we have all seen them before
So I am not real sure where your condescending comes from
I would gladly pay the price for a tank that fit my build, but when all I have is one choice and that one choice would look as wrong as the stock peanut, I don't want to pay that price and ill have to look elsewhere


If you are not up to the challenge issued then pass it by without crapping on it
 

BarelyAWake

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Jul 21, 2009
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There's more than one way to look at this, there's a touch more going on here than it may appear...

As recently as even just a year ago there were simply no custom tanks available, there were a few that had adapted tanks from mopeds and motorcycles but even fewer that had made tanks for themselves - yet everywhere you looked folks were desperate for something other than the peanut tank.

Many had promised they were going to offer custom fuel tanks, yet with an exhausting regularity they stopped responding to queries as after looking into it they discovered it's a moderately difficult item to make, nearly impossible to standardize to fit more than one frame & worse still the customer base is simultaneously both demanding in quality and extremely naive in regards to material and labor costs, what a "fair" price was in the popular view wouldn't even cover materials.

It's a troublesome product to be sure.

Comparatively recently there's been a drastic increase in options, there's the Worksman and Schwinn Panther tanks being offered, custom copper tanks, a universal behind the seat canister tank, as well as both tutorial threads and even a DVD for sale - as well as more and more members posting examples of the tanks they've made themselves, showing what's possible with a bit of time and patience.

There may be few that are willing to sell their handiwork, but there's far more now than there ever was, far far more options than the OP suggested.

Where feathers got ruffled was the dismissal of these tediously hand-crafted and unique items as "generic" by those that can't be even bothered to make the attempt to do it themselves, let alone search the alternatives. That the folks whom supported the craftsman's efforts by purchasing one would receive nothing but "yawns" unless they chose to paint it thereby hiding the workmanship - the nicely brushed stainless, the flush edging, the consistent weld beads, all must be obscured so that you "might" receive "kudos" from your fellow enthusiasts. Although also called "magnificent" - to hold it up as an example of drab uniformity is a jarring insult to not just sportscarpat, but anyone that's labored to make something similar for themselves, and that's just about everyone that's had a problem with this thread. Denouncing anyone's custom work as boring is sure to offend, you'd feel no different if it were your efforts.

The OP called for "a very simple undertank" that would "(presumably cost) significantly less than those magnificent but still generic tanks" - this is a bit of an unusual request, not that it was they wished to mask the tank with some sort of faux covering of unknown material or design, but that because it's really no less effort in labor, no significant reduction of materials to make a slightly smaller tank from scratch as it does a larger one. So here, price is an issue - if not the issue.

So there's the "offense" be it inadvertent or otherwise - labeled "magnificent" yet too generic, boring and expensive to be even covered up by those that want someone else to do it all for as little as possible.

It's quite likely it was nothing but an error in judgment - had the OP simply asked how to make a "simple undertank" or if anyone was willing to sell them one, I'm sure there'd have been no problems at all with any number of offers and suggestions from folks wanting to help and share their experience. There's tanks made from soldered cans, even automotive exhaust pipe and fire extinguishers, the list goes on.



Folks have repeatedly apologized on both sides & explanations offered - it's time to move on to what the OP no doubt meant, an inexpensive fuel container than can be easily masked with replica covers. Continuing animosity, insult or disrespect will result in this thread being closed.
 
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bairdco

a guy who makes cool bikes
Aug 18, 2009
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alright, alright. instead of adding to the arguments, i'll give you an idea that might work.

you can build your own out of copper and silver solder.

either build a complete tank, which is a little tricky trying to get all the angles perfect, or you could get a piece of copper pipe the size you want, and solder on two end caps (if you're lucky, the same place you got the pipe will have the caps. if not, cut two circles and do it yourself.)

i could build a pipe bomb lookin' tank in about an hour. you could also make a box shape, rectangle, or something similar with sheet copper just as easy.

if you're going to make a custom cover for it, you don't need to make nice pretty joints, you can just slop the solder on and be done with it.

now for the bad news...

copper's not cheap.

let's say you want a 2 foot long pipe tank with a 3" OD. no problem. it's only $76.98 from here; Copper pipe - rigid copper piping - from FAMOUS PLUMBING SUPPLY

two end caps will cost you $36.71 apiece.

then you need silver solder, which is 10-20 bucks, depending on where ya go and what size you need.

you might want some tank sealer for it, too, just in case...

if you build a box tank, i buy 16g. copper sheets for about 60 bucks. there's enough to do three tanks. or, two tanks and one you can bash with a hammer when you mess up.

i actually looked into building copper behind the seat tanks. figured i just get some 5" OD copper pipe and solder some caps on the end. make 'em about a foot long,take me about an hour each, probably sell them for 50 bucks...

sounds like a good plan, right?

first, i couldn't find 5" od pipe. it's out there, but not too common, so i found 4". that'd work.

and i could get a 4' long piece for only $299.96!

right there i decided people can stick with their juice can tanks.

but, just to be thorough, i still would need 4 caps and bungs, solder and sealer, plus some way to mount them. going the cheapest route with leather straps and hose fittings, i could probably build a 1' copper tank for a little over a hundred bucks, but maybe as high as $150.

not counting my labor, shipping, etc.

to make a profit, i'd have to sell them for at least 200.

the copper tanks i make out of sheet copper are a lot less to make, but take a day or two, are more prone to leaking, and are a total pain in the ass, but they're getting easier for me.

the bottom line

NOTHING about building a gas tank is cheap, or easy, no matter what it's made out of.

unless you can find a suitable container (like an old aluminum canteen for instance) or a ready-made product you can adapt to your use, you're looking at spending a lot of money, a lot of time, or both.

honestly, it'd be cheaper in the long run to buy a welder and teach yourself how to make the tank you want.

all that being typed, i'm not trying to discourage you at all. just being realistic.
 

sportscarpat

Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker
Jun 25, 2009
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In my opinion Bairdco and Barelyawake are both correct. Tanks are a pain to make and the materials are costly. Just the cap and bung assemblies run $30 to $40. Remaining materials have to be cut and formed. Welding and finish work, including leak checking every tank, takes time. From there you have to deal with the inconsistancies of frames. I have had to standardize design to make this a worthwhile venture and invest in tooling. Making one-off tanks or variations on current designs just would not be economical. Even making a simple version like my underseat tank took time and money. The good thing here is that more options are becoming available and eventually someone will invest in tooling to stamp out "custom tanks" by the thousands. We may even see matching tank and frame kits built overseas for just a few hundred bucks. Imagine that, a vintage American looking BTR package built in China. I'll pass, as that would definately be to generic for my tasts.
 

hoodoo

Member
Dec 26, 2009
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This is what quick ebay search turned up.. Might be to big?

Another option besides buying a tank for 300 from a vendor is having one made for you, thats what i did.. I went down to my local metal fabrication shop and asked if they could help me out,
I payed about 140 bucks for it but its stainless and pretty much bomb proof..
Thanks or the rec.
As for the two tanks you mention, both have possibilities but their shapes don't seem quite for working under or around that top bar...the second looks narrow enough that you could put it on one or both sides (two), but the fuel line attachment position is in the wrong place to do that....hence the search, I think for the ideal little plastic tank that everyone could use continues.

As for you metal tank, I have a "cuz" that could have made same and if charged me 140 bucks I would have paid it. However as I wanted to make multiple bikes and I am trying to encourage my friends to get into the hobby. For myself I was fortunate to find those 20 dollar chinese tanks (of which I bought 4...) that work fine for a stretched frame with a larger gap between the two top bars but won't work on the normal worksman frame, too big (there is this obnoxious sump at the bottom). For my short husky frame it was not too hard for a friend to cut out the sump section and shorten the tank, but again this involved "expertise". I am still looking for the easy "liner" tank so that a beginner or more casual builder can do, that is get the bike, the engine kit, and a tank and put it all together in the garage and maybe run down to the local home depot for some simple stuff to make a passable engine cover. We all know once you build one you will want to build more, usually increasing in sophistication and satisfaction. The more people we get building their first bikes the more likely they are going to want to build second and third....hence make it as easy and inexpensive as possible with that first bike.
 

Goat Herder

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Apr 28, 2008
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The fiberglass Option is possibly cheaper option for the do it yourself-er than buying a good welder [not cheap in my opinion] that will not make welds that look like the bottom of a bat cave, learning how to use one, then hours upon hours of grinding etc to come up with something that needs a paint job really really bad to cover it up!
http://motorbicycling.com/attachments/f41/29974d1286918469-dyno-bobber-cruiser-street-tracker-4.jpg

No paint here!
http://motorbicycling.com/attachments/f41/30741d1289085699-aldyno-wcc-pb060312.jpg
http://motorbicycling.com/attachments/f41/30225d1287519046-aldyno-wcc-pa170291.jpg
Lots of great fiber glass work here!
http://www.acmemotorbikes.com/?file=kop9.php
With the welder out of the equation its up to the glorified I think fun!! of sculpting the fiber glass. Which can be made very easy when approached right. Any shape a guy wants! I have worked with both these materials in my day as a collision repairman.
Ya gotta wonder why.
Nothing is free really it all takes some work. You are going to have a substantial amount of time in any of it ya build the time and effort in it always shows........that is a fact and I don't IMHO ever see that changing.

It is also likely that plastic tanks may be partially banned from areas. So I think there will be government regulations concerning this? Also if'n china magically starts molding plastic tanks they come from our petro which is no longer cheap and a good tank that could possibly keep up with the government regulations may very well subsequently reflect the price. Will a plastic motorcycle gas tank pass NYS inspection? - Yahoo! Answers Plus it will never be perfect to the costumers wants and needs which have been?seem? adamantly portrayed here?

Gas Gas Tanks : Just Gas Tanks
 
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Crazy Horse

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Feb 20, 2009
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The fiberglass Option is possibly cheaper option for the do it yourself-er than buying a good welder [not cheap in my opinion] that will not make welds that look like the bottom of a bat cave, learning how to use one, then hours upon hours of grinding etc to come up with something that needs a paint job really really bad to cover it up!

With the welder out of the equation its up to the glorified I think fun!! of sculpting the fiber glass. Which can be made very easy when approached right. Any shape a guy wants! I have worked with both these materials in my day as a collision repairman.

Nothing is free really it all takes some work.
Goatherder, this post took me back to the days when we made all kinds of things, before solid foam and spray expandable foam, we used to make our molds using the old reliable PAPER MACHE!

C.H.
.shft.
 

fishguts

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Sep 7, 2010
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Good and cheap don't fit in the same sentence with custom made fuel tanks.

I built mine from foam covered in epoxy fiberglass. I have a lot of fiberglass experience and it was still a LOT of work, more than if I had welded it together. If I were to build another one it would be welded out of steel. This is a saddle tank following early Harley lines somewhat, so double bungs and filler necks/caps. Total cost for materials was $250.

It turned out good and I'm happy with it, but it wasn't easy or cheap.



 

sportscarpat

Bonneville Bomber the Salt Flat record breaker
Jun 25, 2009
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Copper makes for a nice tank. I saw a guy tig weld copper, once. I have never done it, but metal is metal. I could even have a stainless tank copper plated. Copper tank and a copper head badge. That would be cool. As for those two sided Harley type tanks to me that's two gas tanks welded together. That is a lot of work and would drive the price way up. Nice tanks.
 

Goat Herder

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Like I aid
I have never seen a group of people so ready and needing to feel offended
So I am not real sure where your condescending comes from?
Don't know what to tell you Bairdco, perhaps there is a remedial reading course being offered at you local adult education center
I rest my case on your condescending ditty please stop already!
Goat Herder
I read that post at least three times and saw not one comment about Pat's tanks being over priced
It has already been established what is reasonable the guy is not getting rich doing this. Why is it so important to you to establish this? This sounds condescending to me. I was not any any way shape or form talking about pats tanks in my post it was not my intention there and never was.
I saw a call for originality and innovation.
So did I
Pat's tanks are great, no one disputes that, but they are his tanks to be used on his builds or imitations of his builds
Then make your own! Or simply wait until someone coincidentally makes something you like if ya can afford the mans labor and hard work involved I am sure its for sale.
Like the man said they will bring praise in your neighborhood, but we have all seen them before
So I am not real sure where your condescending comes from
I would gladly pay the price for a tank that fit my build, but when all I have is one choice and that one choice would look as wrong as the stock peanut, I don't want to pay that price and ill have to look elsewhere
I know you have contradicted yourself? Right here. Not considering time and materials.
Fiberglass
If you are not up to the challenge issued then pass it by without crapping on it
This is well said! Words to heed by...........
 
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bairdco

a guy who makes cool bikes
Aug 18, 2009
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i don't really understand what you guys are after. i mean, if you think Pat's tanks are "generic" and sadly, the only available option for a worksman, then what the heck do you want?

why don't you just paint a two liter bottle red and black, glue on some silver painted drinking straws in the shape of a spiderweb, and tell people you got it from OCC...
 
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