BossCat's Push Trailer
- Thread starter BossCat
- Start date
Not really. His motor (assuming that batteries are OK and controller can put up with enough Amps) can move a car (not for very long , of course). Starter motor on the car can do the same (only 12 V, huge amount of Amps for a short time ).
Ok, before you all jump in.
1. The motor is NEW
2. The batterys are fully charged, or were at the time of testing.
3. All connections are ok, or else the motor wouldn't turn.
4. At the moment I dont have a controller. Im just using a micro switch as an on/off switch.
5. With the trailer jacked up on bricks the motor spins the trailer wheel fast enough to cut diamonds
As im new to all this and this is my first motorised contraption build my thinking was that I would hop on the bike and peddle up to speed then press the switch and whooosh, the motor would propel me along. I also thought that with no weight on the bike/trailer - ie me, there would be enough power to propel the bike/trailer forward.
It seems I still have a lot to learn and a long way to go.
Regards
Tom
1. The motor is NEW
2. The batterys are fully charged, or were at the time of testing.
3. All connections are ok, or else the motor wouldn't turn.
4. At the moment I dont have a controller. Im just using a micro switch as an on/off switch.
5. With the trailer jacked up on bricks the motor spins the trailer wheel fast enough to cut diamonds
As im new to all this and this is my first motorised contraption build my thinking was that I would hop on the bike and peddle up to speed then press the switch and whooosh, the motor would propel me along. I also thought that with no weight on the bike/trailer - ie me, there would be enough power to propel the bike/trailer forward.
It seems I still have a lot to learn and a long way to go.
Regards
Tom
If the batteries are old , they can short INTERNALLY (crystals on the led plates are built up and very small distortion , like when battery is under load, will cause touching those crystals on anode and cathode). The old batteries can have full voltage , but capacitance is very low, so you can't use the energy. That is the theory , I don't know what is wrong with your trailer setup.
Driving without controller will shorten the life of the batteries and could cause the failure of the system (in your case that would be the switch or connections). On the hills (hi loads) , the motor could be damaged , because nothing prevents hi currencies (many Amps) to go trough it, if switch and connections are working. It might be a good idea to put a fuse between batteries and the switch(rating smaller than a motor rating - Amps I'm talking about). I'm just trying to point out the stuff that might cost you (and cause some aggravation), otherwise you should do as you find it right for you.
Controllers are very cheap these days (used ones and those from scrapped e vehicles especially), so I don't understand why not to use one - and there is a regenerative braking option.
Anyway , hope to hear from you on the move soon (without pedaling hopefully).
Driving without controller will shorten the life of the batteries and could cause the failure of the system (in your case that would be the switch or connections). On the hills (hi loads) , the motor could be damaged , because nothing prevents hi currencies (many Amps) to go trough it, if switch and connections are working. It might be a good idea to put a fuse between batteries and the switch(rating smaller than a motor rating - Amps I'm talking about). I'm just trying to point out the stuff that might cost you (and cause some aggravation), otherwise you should do as you find it right for you.
Controllers are very cheap these days (used ones and those from scrapped e vehicles especially), so I don't understand why not to use one - and there is a regenerative braking option.
Anyway , hope to hear from you on the move soon (without pedaling hopefully).
Today I hooked up the Powabyke battery pack to my push trailer. At first I blew the fuse in the pack, after replacing the fuse I tried out a little run - still using micro switch as an On/Off switch. The motor span up like last time but still no push. I then tried again with me just walking along side the bike holding it up. This time it just managed to push bike n' trailer along at a snails pace.
Think I'll need to make a chain tensioner as the chain slips off to easy (when trailer is jacked up on bricks) when the wheel is spinning at speed.
Tom
Think I'll need to make a chain tensioner as the chain slips off to easy (when trailer is jacked up on bricks) when the wheel is spinning at speed.
Tom
How big is your wiring? If the wiring is not big enough you can't get enough juice through to power you under a load, Try jump staring a car with a cheap extention chord, it gets really hot really fast but your engine won't turn over. I imagine with an electric motor because the draw depends on the load if your wires are not "big" enough you might run into the same problem when under a load.
So thats why the bike caught fire lol... I always thought it was because I didn't fuse it and the dead short caused it. All this time it was the cheap extension cord wiring. Live and learn.
I run about thirty amps through an extension cord from dollar general. i think it is 14 gauge. I also have a forty amp breaker on the circuit just in case of a dead short or overload. It has actually kicked in a few times so I highly recommend them.
I run about thirty amps through an extension cord from dollar general. i think it is 14 gauge. I also have a forty amp breaker on the circuit just in case of a dead short or overload. It has actually kicked in a few times so I highly recommend them.
Last edited:
Caught fire!!! I think if I did anymore tests with the speaker wire that I was using to the on/off micro switch my bike would have caught fire As it was I stopped when I noticed the blackened melted wires.
Purely for testing.(to see if I canget it to run)
I've partly stipped down the little scooter.
1. I have took the small 24V 180Watt motor of and put it on my trailer.
2. Iv'e also managed to bolt the cog/sprocket from the scooter to my trailer wheel.
3. Fixed the scooter controller inside my trailer.
Just the mass of wiring to sort out and hook it all up to the bike for testing to see how it goes.
For the step up to 36V 500Watt Trailer.
Managed to get my cog/sprocket problem sorted out? I went and seen my mate Tommy and he told me to take the minimoto he had in his shed. It just so happens that the 11 tooth cog/sprocket that came with my 36V 500Watt motor fits the minimoto chain. So now (although small) I have two minimoto wheels with disc brakes, cogged wheel and chain. Humm! I can see an new trailer in the making?
Today I got a mate to order me up a controller and a throttle.
Controller.
Control relay E Scooters electric 500watt 36 volt x500 on eBay (end time 22-Apr-10 11:04:45 BST)
Throttle.
Electric E scooter Throttle Handle for Scooters on eBay (end time 22-Apr-10 11:00:18 BST)
Hopefully I'll get all the little scooter stuff on the trailer over the weekend and test it. My controller & throttle should arrive next week some time then I can stepup the trailer.
I dont suppose the the 24V 180Watt scooter motor will go very fast? As a matter of intrest does anyone know roughly how fast the 500watt motor will propel me along?
Tom
As it was I stopped when I noticed the blackened melted wires.Purely for testing.(to see if I canget it to run)
I've partly stipped down the little scooter.
1. I have took the small 24V 180Watt motor of and put it on my trailer.
2. Iv'e also managed to bolt the cog/sprocket from the scooter to my trailer wheel.
3. Fixed the scooter controller inside my trailer.
Just the mass of wiring to sort out and hook it all up to the bike for testing to see how it goes.
For the step up to 36V 500Watt Trailer.
Managed to get my cog/sprocket problem sorted out? I went and seen my mate Tommy and he told me to take the minimoto he had in his shed. It just so happens that the 11 tooth cog/sprocket that came with my 36V 500Watt motor fits the minimoto chain. So now (although small) I have two minimoto wheels with disc brakes, cogged wheel and chain. Humm! I can see an new trailer in the making?
Today I got a mate to order me up a controller and a throttle.
Controller.
Control relay E Scooters electric 500watt 36 volt x500 on eBay (end time 22-Apr-10 11:04:45 BST)
Throttle.
Electric E scooter Throttle Handle for Scooters on eBay (end time 22-Apr-10 11:00:18 BST)
Hopefully I'll get all the little scooter stuff on the trailer over the weekend and test it. My controller & throttle should arrive next week some time then I can stepup the trailer.
I dont suppose the the 24V 180Watt scooter motor will go very fast? As a matter of intrest does anyone know roughly how fast the 500watt motor will propel me along?
Tom
500 W is (nearly) equivalent to a 3 HP internal combustion engine. You'll be racing almost as you are on 50cc moped/scooter (a bit slower) - depending on the weight. Exact speed is unknown - you'll see when you "floor it".
When it comes to controllers and watts bigger is better. If your motor doesn;t need the extra watts the capacity just lays there not bothering anything. But should you switch to a higher watt motor you can get full use from it only with a high watt controller. My moto is:::Buy the right voltage and as much watt capacity as you can find or afford.
I think iv'e blown something?
Yesterday I took my trailer and all the scooter parts round to my mate Peter. We spent about 2 hours trying to figure out the wiring? We managed to get the horn working, but lights and indicators were a no no? We could light up one indicator but couldn't get it to flash, Peter tried varoius flasher relays but still no luck.
We hooked up the controller - motor and throttle, I held up the trailer while Peter turned the throttle, it worked but the wheel was runnig backwards. I swapped the + & - wires around on the batteries and we tried it again. This time all that happened was a whineing noise? at first we thought the noise was comming from the controller? but we traced it back to the motor.
I got a loan of a battery charger from Peter and brought everthing home. I'll charge up the batts today but Im now wondering if I have blown/buggerd up something with swapping the battery connections around?
Regards
Tom
Yesterday I took my trailer and all the scooter parts round to my mate Peter. We spent about 2 hours trying to figure out the wiring? We managed to get the horn working, but lights and indicators were a no no? We could light up one indicator but couldn't get it to flash, Peter tried varoius flasher relays but still no luck.
We hooked up the controller - motor and throttle, I held up the trailer while Peter turned the throttle, it worked but the wheel was runnig backwards. I swapped the + & - wires around on the batteries and we tried it again. This time all that happened was a whineing noise? at first we thought the noise was comming from the controller? but we traced it back to the motor.
I got a loan of a battery charger from Peter and brought everthing home. I'll charge up the batts today but Im now wondering if I have blown/buggerd up something with swapping the battery connections around?
Regards
Tom
Do not switch it at the battery, switch the connection from the controller to the motor. The wiring to the controller should be correct to not damage it. Red positive black negative.
We have liftoff
Yesterday I hooked up all the little scooter stuff to the trailer, the Controller - Motor - Batteries and Throttle, I gave the throttle a turn and nothing happened? I then plugged in the turn signal/horn/lights handle and gave the throttle a turn - Success.
The trailer didnt push me along at any great pace as the scooter motor is only 24V 180Watt, and the Kinetic 12V 7AH/20HR batteries are not the best. I stripped out two of the Powabike's Sakura 12Volt 140amp batteries and did another test run round to my mate Peters. This test was a little better.
I'll do another (longer) test run today. I can now put on my CV/Resume that I have build and run a push trailer. lol
I dont know why the lights/horn handle has to be connected to the controller? It might be the ignition key switch that I had to take off (no key) and cross the wiring. Its not really a problem as I want the handle on the bike as I have small car indicators to put on the bike and I had already rigged up my bullhorns with the little clicky end of a torch as on/off buttons.
Clicky Bullhorn Indicator Buttons.
Once my new controller & throttle arrives I'll hook them up with my 36V 500Watt motor. I think I may have to redo my trailer drive wheel assembley? I'll grid off the big bicycle cog/sprocket that the small scooter cog/sprocket is bolted to and see if I can bolt the minimoto cog/sprocket to the freewheel cog/sprocket on the bike wheel.
Drive wheel and Cogs/Sprockets.
I pick up a metal filing box at the market the other week, and iv'e just finished hooking up my rear lights and indicators to it. Still have a little wiring to figure out - The handle wiring to my flasher unit (the little scooter flasher is kaput).
Box for carrying stuff - Lights. (new lights on box) The light/indicator unit below is busted, but I'll use the break light switch from the unit to another light Im going to fit on the box as a break light. I also have lights which i'll add to the trailer.
Lights/Horn/Indicators Handle Wiring to figure out? I'll have to figure out the 24V wiring so I can add my 12V flasher unit.
As it looks at the moment, I think i'll go for a little test run.
Cant wait until I get my bigger motor hooked up, then I can zoom about like a mad man. lol
Regards
Tom
Yesterday I hooked up all the little scooter stuff to the trailer, the Controller - Motor - Batteries and Throttle, I gave the throttle a turn and nothing happened? I then plugged in the turn signal/horn/lights handle and gave the throttle a turn - Success.
The trailer didnt push me along at any great pace as the scooter motor is only 24V 180Watt, and the Kinetic 12V 7AH/20HR batteries are not the best. I stripped out two of the Powabike's Sakura 12Volt 140amp batteries and did another test run round to my mate Peters. This test was a little better.
I'll do another (longer) test run today. I can now put on my CV/Resume that I have build and run a push trailer. lol
I dont know why the lights/horn handle has to be connected to the controller? It might be the ignition key switch that I had to take off (no key) and cross the wiring. Its not really a problem as I want the handle on the bike as I have small car indicators to put on the bike and I had already rigged up my bullhorns with the little clicky end of a torch as on/off buttons.
Clicky Bullhorn Indicator Buttons.
Once my new controller & throttle arrives I'll hook them up with my 36V 500Watt motor. I think I may have to redo my trailer drive wheel assembley? I'll grid off the big bicycle cog/sprocket that the small scooter cog/sprocket is bolted to and see if I can bolt the minimoto cog/sprocket to the freewheel cog/sprocket on the bike wheel.
Drive wheel and Cogs/Sprockets.
I pick up a metal filing box at the market the other week, and iv'e just finished hooking up my rear lights and indicators to it. Still have a little wiring to figure out - The handle wiring to my flasher unit (the little scooter flasher is kaput).
Box for carrying stuff - Lights. (new lights on box) The light/indicator unit below is busted, but I'll use the break light switch from the unit to another light Im going to fit on the box as a break light. I also have lights which i'll add to the trailer.
Lights/Horn/Indicators Handle Wiring to figure out? I'll have to figure out the 24V wiring so I can add my 12V flasher unit.
As it looks at the moment, I think i'll go for a little test run.
Cant wait until I get my bigger motor hooked up, then I can zoom about like a mad man. lol
Regards
Tom
Last edited:
Looks great. Good luck and glad you have it going, The 180watt motor is way underpower but you do know it works. Are you sure you didn't have your lights and brake cut out wires switched. The brake cut out kills the circuit deader than a door nail. (and I do know where that expression comes from)
Got a phone call from my mate Pat telling me that my controller and throttle had arrived. I made my way to his house to collect it.
The controller wasn't what I expected, it was a tiny thing, about the size of a cigarette packet! I thought it would be a lot bigger. The throttle they sent wasn't the one as advertised on there listing, the one they sent has a chrome endcap, but never mind.
Pic of Controller n' Throttle next to a tape measure for size comparison.
The wiring on the controller leads are set out as so, from top of picture...
1. Brake Signal - Red/Black.
2. Brake - Yellow/Black.
3. Derailleur - Red/Black/Blue.
4. Charge - Red/Black - (with two cut wires also Red/Black)
5. Pilot Lamp - Red/Yellow.
6. 2 thin bare wires - Red/Blue - ?
7. 2 Thick bare wires - Black/Red (I think these are battery wires?)
8. 2 Thick bare wires - Blue/White (I think these are the wires that goto the motor?)
I dont have any female plug type fittings to match the controller fittings so i'll have to put spade or bullit connectors on. But before I get to that stage im just checking here to see that iv'e got my wiring right?
Regards
Tom
The controller wasn't what I expected, it was a tiny thing, about the size of a cigarette packet! I thought it would be a lot bigger. The throttle they sent wasn't the one as advertised on there listing, the one they sent has a chrome endcap, but never mind.
Pic of Controller n' Throttle next to a tape measure for size comparison.
The wiring on the controller leads are set out as so, from top of picture...
1. Brake Signal - Red/Black.
2. Brake - Yellow/Black.
3. Derailleur - Red/Black/Blue.
4. Charge - Red/Black - (with two cut wires also Red/Black)
5. Pilot Lamp - Red/Yellow.
6. 2 thin bare wires - Red/Blue - ?
7. 2 Thick bare wires - Black/Red (I think these are battery wires?)
8. 2 Thick bare wires - Blue/White (I think these are the wires that goto the motor?)
I dont have any female plug type fittings to match the controller fittings so i'll have to put spade or bullit connectors on. But before I get to that stage im just checking here to see that iv'e got my wiring right?
Regards
Tom
Yes red black are battery.... hook up your throttle off the bike, then the battery wires, then put your multi meter on the blue and white to get the polarity of them and test your circuit before you wire the trailer. Then remember if you need to switch them switch the polarity at the motor. Never switch it at the battery it could blow your controller.
You probably have an switch circuit. i did on my first controllers. If you get everything wired up and it won't do anything look for a couple of wires that you can wire together to make the switch circuit.
You probably have an switch circuit. i did on my first controllers. If you get everything wired up and it won't do anything look for a couple of wires that you can wire together to make the switch circuit.
Im getting a little scared now!!!
Today I planned testing out the controller. I put some spade connectors on 2 wires from an old computer connection lead. The lead fits into my Powabyke battery - 36Volts. I plan to use this battery pack in my trailer as its easy to charge
I then put on 4 spade connectors onto the 4 wires on the controller...
Thick Red/Black
Thick Blue/White
I plugged in the the battery lead and connected the BROWN to RED and just touched BLUE to BLACK when there was a quick zapping flash - S**T!!!
I looked at the end of spade connectors and saw that the end of one had melted. (see top left of pic1)
Spade Connectors.
Pic1.
I cut off the melted spade connector and redone it, I then connected up the battey and tried again. This time I put BROWN to BLACK and BLUE to RED. NO FLASH BANG this time... pheew
While redoing the melted spade connector 2 fittings fell off, these were not wired up? They were just held on with selotape, as you can see in pic2. The 2 fittings that fell off were...
Derailleur - Red/Black/Blue.
Charge - Red/Black.
I put tape over the Charge wires and also 2 other wires that were bare? - The short thin Red n' Blue wires next to controller. (to the right of pic2) These wires were bare to start with - no fittings attached?, they may be this switch circuit you talked about Deacon?
Pic2.
Now before I go and blow something up or myself im just checking that the 3 wires coming from the controller with the fitting marked Derailleur (remember this fell off) are the Throttle wires?
RED BLACK n' BLUE Im assuming this to be correct as a throttle has 3 wires and its the only 3 wire connection that comes from the controller.
Right im off to test this again. If I dont report back you'll know that there's been a
and im laying in the hospital burns unit
Regards
Tom
Today I planned testing out the controller. I put some spade connectors on 2 wires from an old computer connection lead. The lead fits into my Powabyke battery - 36Volts. I plan to use this battery pack in my trailer as its easy to charge
I then put on 4 spade connectors onto the 4 wires on the controller...
Thick Red/Black
Thick Blue/White
I plugged in the the battery lead and connected the BROWN to RED and just touched BLUE to BLACK when there was a quick zapping flash - S**T!!!
I looked at the end of spade connectors and saw that the end of one had melted. (see top left of pic1)
Spade Connectors.
Pic1.
I cut off the melted spade connector and redone it, I then connected up the battey and tried again. This time I put BROWN to BLACK and BLUE to RED. NO FLASH BANG this time... pheew
While redoing the melted spade connector 2 fittings fell off, these were not wired up? They were just held on with selotape, as you can see in pic2. The 2 fittings that fell off were...
Derailleur - Red/Black/Blue.
Charge - Red/Black.
I put tape over the Charge wires and also 2 other wires that were bare? - The short thin Red n' Blue wires next to controller. (to the right of pic2) These wires were bare to start with - no fittings attached?, they may be this switch circuit you talked about Deacon?
Pic2.
Now before I go and blow something up or myself im just checking that the 3 wires coming from the controller with the fitting marked Derailleur (remember this fell off) are the Throttle wires?
RED BLACK n' BLUE Im assuming this to be correct as a throttle has 3 wires and its the only 3 wire connection that comes from the controller.
Right im off to test this again. If I dont report back you'll know that there's been a
and im laying in the hospital burns unit Regards
Tom
Last edited:
Done another wiring test and got nothing?
Here's how I wired up Batteries - Controller - Old Scooter Throttle.
Battery - Brown to Black. Red to Blue.
Throttle - Red Black Green to Red Black Blue.
Controller - Blue n' White to Multimeter Red n' Black.
I also get the same reading on the multimeter if I remove battery lead. I thought the reading would have got higher if I turned the throttle?
Well iv'e either blown up the controller with the first test or im doing something wrong or there is another connection to make? maybe thoses short thin Red n' Blue wires need connecting together?
Im holding off on any further test/wiring until someone can comfirm that these 2 - Red n' Blue wires need connecting together? or tell me how to test a controller to see if its blown.
Regards
Tom
Here's how I wired up Batteries - Controller - Old Scooter Throttle.
Battery - Brown to Black. Red to Blue.
Throttle - Red Black Green to Red Black Blue.
Controller - Blue n' White to Multimeter Red n' Black.
I also get the same reading on the multimeter if I remove battery lead. I thought the reading would have got higher if I turned the throttle?
Well iv'e either blown up the controller with the first
test or im doing something wrong or there is another connection to make? maybe thoses short thin Red n' Blue wires need connecting together?Im holding off on any further test/wiring until someone can comfirm that these 2 - Red n' Blue wires need connecting together? or tell me how to test a controller to see if its blown.
Regards
Tom
Is there a label on the wire pair at the connector. And do you have the throttle connected right. If the two wires are the switch you should not be getting anything at all at the motor when the throttle is turned off. Of course you could be getting the throttle voltage there I suppose, which is about five volts. But only if the switch is closed if there is one for the controller.
To field test the controller. (I have no idea to test it inside other than for a broken wire) hook the battery up to it. Make sure the battery wires are hot before you connect them to he controller. now and then the batteries have a poor connection and it screws up your readings.
The black and red throttle wires from the controller should have about five volts on them from the controller. Even when it is not connected, if the switch wires are closed. There should be varying amounts of voltage on the motor wires when you open the throttle
If it doesn't do that I am totally lost, but I'm sure some of the guys here can test it farther.
Those two wires you are talking about may well be the switch. It it is the switch you need to jumper those with a paper clip to test the throttle and the motor output I think. Those controllers usually have brake wires, light wires, and a switch on them. the three wires called dérailleur are the throttle I expect.
I have had more bad throttle assembly than controller "out of the box" problems.
To field test the controller. (I have no idea to test it inside other than for a broken wire) hook the battery up to it. Make sure the battery wires are hot before you connect them to he controller. now and then the batteries have a poor connection and it screws up your readings.
The black and red throttle wires from the controller should have about five volts on them from the controller. Even when it is not connected, if the switch wires are closed. There should be varying amounts of voltage on the motor wires when you open the throttle
If it doesn't do that I am totally lost, but I'm sure some of the guys here can test it farther.
Those two wires you are talking about may well be the switch. It it is the switch you need to jumper those with a paper clip to test the throttle and the motor output I think. Those controllers usually have brake wires, light wires, and a switch on them. the three wires called dérailleur are the throttle I expect.
I have had more bad throttle assembly than controller "out of the box" problems.
Last edited:
POST #35
The wiring on the controller leads are set out as so, from top of picture...
1. Brake Signal - Red/Black.
2. Brake - Yellow/Black.
3. Derailleur - Red/Black/Blue.
4. Charge - Red/Black - (with two cut wires also Red/Black)
5. Pilot Lamp - Red/Yellow.
6. 2 thin bare wires - Red/Blue - ?
7. 2 Thick bare wires - Black/Red (I think these are battery wires?)
8. 2 Thick bare wires - Blue/White (I think these are the wires that goto the motor?)
The list of the wiring in post #35 and picture. All wires have connectors fitted and a sticker on connectors donating what it is, hence my being able to post a list. The only wires that didn't have connectors on were - 6. 7. 8, these wires were BARE when the controller arrived, barring the thick Red n' Black, which had a piece of white tape around them.
Wires
3. Derailleur - Red/Black/Blue.
4. Charge - Red/Black - (with two cut wires also Red/Black)
In the picture you'll see they have selotape/clear tape on them. When they fell off I realised they had been connected but the wires had been cut and were held on with tape.
I took the scooter throttle off my trailer (I didn't use new throttle), so I know this throttle works.
There are 3 wires on the Scooter throttle...
Red.
Black.
Green.
There are 3 wires on the Controller (with a connector and sticker marked Derailleur. This fell off/held on with selotape/ clear tape).
Red.
Black.
Blue.
I connected...
Red to Red
Black to Black
and was left with a Throttle Green wire and a Controller Blue wire which I connected together. Im assuming that's how they go unless there is another combination of the 6 wire connection?
I think I'll have to take the controller round to my mate Peter, he has a continuitie? tester. The only thing left after that is hook up - 6. 2 thin bare wires - Red/Blue - ? together and see if anything changes.
Regards
Tom
Last edited: