The Real Deal on California Law.

[bairdco]

yeah, i aced that. i only had to do half of it, like 20 questions.

now that i'm all set up, i'm gonna go cruise around Newport Beach.

ain't gonna let the Man get me down...

 

[Scotchmo]

Whenever you take the M1 motorcycle permit test, the DMV will now make you take the automobile written test also in California.

The automobile written test is primarily about traffic laws. The motorcycle written test is more about operation and technique, and some of it is subjective.

 

[perichbrothers]

Me and a friend just rode our "china-girls" on a couple mile loop,
passed 4 cops, a highway patrol, and the actual highway patrol station, twice!
Definitely was paranoid as it was dusk on the way back.

I've been carrying around a copy of the registration paper I sent in, just in case,
but have been too lazy to get a MC license, that's next.

It's exhilarating? sneaking around,
but its easier to show that an attempt is being made to be legal.

I think those older flake helmets are a good match for these things,
also on the list.

Thanks for the warnings!

TP

 

[Techbiker]

Yesterday when I had my bike off and was fiddling with my CNS carb, a police officer drove by me really slowly one direction and then again from the other direction. He then stopped and stared at me for a few seconds. When I looked up to see what was going on and couldn't see through his window, he sped off. lol

California sounds much worse!

 

[bairdco]

i was going down Newport Blvd in Costa Mesa yesterday, with a tailwind, in the middle lane because i was passing someone who was turning right, i was probably doing 45, and there was a cop in a cruiser at the side radar-ing people.

he just stared at me, and i didn't even slow down. figured if i was gonna get busted, i was gonna make it worthwhile, but he never came after me.

 

[michaelgrav]

California Law & Description of Motorized Bicycle (V 406a[a])
V.C. Section 406 - Motorized Bicycle
Motorcycle Handbook- Two-Wheel Vehicle Operation
We really don't fit the actual criteria.
(1) As long as we are not smashing 35 mph in the center of town most police will leave us alone.
(2) If too much attention is drawn upon us sooner or later they will change or enforce the laws more closely.
(3) So guys do your smashing on the back roads and just lightly cruise the heavier populated areas.
I depend on my MB for daily transportation and don't need hassles!

 

[bairdco]

i got my ticket in Newport beach doing 28, just cruising. as i've stated, the cops around here on on the look-out for us, not to stop us from riding, but to get us legal.

i still don't have a headlight, horn, or mirror, but i've got the license, plate and helmet. all the other crap is just fix-it tickets anyway, so i ain't worried anymore.

it's really easy to get legal, so why put it off? just takes a little time at the DMV, a few bucks, and you're ready to go.

i can't wait to get pulled over again, and bust out all my paperwork.

Have a nice day, officer...

 

[Venice Motor Bikes]

I got my Cal plates today!!
I used the bikes serial # for the vin, & the last 6 digits of the vin for the engine #s!!
I'm just carrying a photo copy of the plate & the reg card with the bike when I ride. (I'm not mounting the plate on the bike.)
I'll keep everyone here posted on how that works out.

 

[bairdco]

i got pulled over again today, by the same cop.

i was at Newport and 17th, in the left turn lane, and he was across the street. it's actually the cut-off of Newport Beach and Costa Mesa, and i was on the Costa Mesa side when he got me (he's a NB cop.)

I was riding my new bike, and i'm waiting on the plate for it. it only has a mirror, and no lights.

luckily, i had my M1 permit and a copy of the registration form (and my check) that i sent in, and a DOT helmet, so we just chatted awhile, and he let me go.

told me if i didn't have the registration form on me, he woulda impounded the bike.

he says i should look into insuring it, but so far, i haven't found anyone who will. what do people with whizzers do?

 

[bairdco]

i found a guy in Tustin that will insure our bikes. my quote was $300 a year for liability.

i'm also going to see my current insurance guy later today, he said he might be able to do it, so i'll let you know.

basically, it's the same deal as a whizzer

sounds a little pricey, but it's better than getting your bike impounded, or y'know, if you ever run into a bus load of children and your bike explodes and they all die, at least yer covered...

 

[bluesjr]

$300 for liability! Wow, that's steep. I'm trying to decide between a motorized bike and a motorcycle. A quote from Progressive, this week, for a newish Honda Rebel 250, myself and my son, full coverage - $330! Something's seriously out-of-whack here.

I've got a calif question - are 2-strokes allowed or what? One vendor won't ship their 2-strokes to california. For frame mount, and cost, I'm leaning towards 2-strokes. If I go friction or rack, maybe a 4-stroke.

Also, reading the DMV link posted in this thread, I didn't see a 50cc restriction for "motorized bicycle", just a <2hp and <30mph limit.

bluesjr

 

[bairdco]

there is no 50cc restriction. i dunno where that came from, and neither did the cop that busted me. urban legend, i guess.

it's gotta be under 149cc's. anything over that is considered a motorcycle.

2 strokes are allowed, it's just importing them that's the problem. it has to do with CARB, the California Air Resource Board. that's why no one will ship here.

my quote includes a couple of, uh, indescretions, so if you have a good record, it might be cheaper, but basically the insurance is the same as if it was a motorcycle.

 

[Scotchmo]

We keep calling it “registering” when talking about getting a plate for a moped. It is not really registering it. Your are required to have a plate, but you are not required to “register” it. Registering is a yearly payment to the DMV to get a new sticker. Mopeds do not have yearly stickers. They have a lifetime plate.

4020. A motorized bicycle operated upon a highway is exempt from registration.

5030. A motorized bicycle, as defined in Section 406, is required to display a special license plate issued by the department.

You are not required to show insurance when your get your moped plate. And unlike a car or motorcycle, you do not have to maintain insurance to keep it registered. But there is nothing that I can find in the vehicle code that exempts a moped from the financial responsibility laws. Scooters and electric bicycle are explicitly exempted. Progressive does insure mopeds and they have the best prices for minimum liability policies. I added a moped to my existing motorcycle policy and it only raised it $1 per year. They should actually reduce it since when I'm ridng the moped, I'm not riding my Goldwing. It you want full coverage, it will cost you a lot more.

...
it's gotta be under 110cc's. anything over that is considered a motorcycle.

...

There is no limit on engine displacement for mopeds. There is a two horsepower limit.

 

[bairdco]

didja ever look up the definition of "register?"

reg·is·ter (rj-str)
n.
1.
a. A formal or official recording of items, names, or actions.

or, when you type in "motorize vehicle registration" into the DMV search to find the registration form, it says:

"This form is used to apply for original registration, transfer, duplicates, and substitutes for motorized bicycles (mopeds).

and if you look on my paperwork, it names me as "the registered owner."

you don't have to pay an "annual fee," but you still need to register it.

on the same page you found section 4020, here's this:

4001. All vehicles exempt from the payment of registration fees shall be registered as otherwise required by this code by the person having custody thereof, and he shall display upon the vehicle a license plate bearing distinguishing marks or symbols, which shall be furnished by the department free of charge.

anyways...

i called progressive,esurance, and a few other major players in the insurance racket, and they all asked if the bicycle manufacturer also manufactured the engine (no,) and did i buy the bicycle with the motor already installed (no,) and a few other things that i had to answer "no" to.

all of them denied me, saying that my bike didn't meet their definition of "moped."

i coulda lied, but if i was getting sued or filing a claim, it'd be pretty easy for them to find out that Colson didn't make a chinese bicycle motor in the 1930's.

the guy i went to was recommended to me by HB Scooters in Huntington Beach as their guy who registers the Whizzers they sell.

(edit) also, the cop gave me a "cheat sheet" they use so we can't weasel out of tickets, and on it it states: "16028(a) Financial responsibility required."

which is the basic "furnishing proof upon request" law when you get pulled over.

 

[Venice Motor Bikes]

I don't know what all this insurance talk is about??? Insurance isn't required for these bikes!
If the cop said you should "look into insuring it", I kinda see that as proof that the cops down where you live are trying to make it as hard as possible on us!

As far as plates go... We have plates for the two bikes that we ride, & I'll be getting plates for the rest, but I don't want to mount them on the bikes yet because if the cops start seeing plates on our bikes up here, they'll start hitting everyone they see for plates! The cops are pretty cool about us up here & we wanna keep it that way.
I do advise that everyone at least get the reg cards & plates just to have & play it safe!

 

[bairdco]

just got my ticket info in the mail.

$394 for not having a DOT helmet.

yikes.

 

[bluesjr]

2 strokes are allowed, it's just importing them that's the problem. it has to do with CARB, the California Air Resource Board. that's why no one will ship here.

So, did the cop ask about your motor at all? 2/4-stroke? displacement? horsepower? anything?

And what is a DOT helmet? Do bike helmets qualify, or do you have to wear a motorcycle helmet? A heavy motorcycle helmet would take some (or a lot!) of the fun out of it.

Did you say earlier that the cop had a checklist he was working from? If so, it sure would be nice to see his list.

bluesjr


PS. answered my own helmet question. A bike helmet (that meets either ASTM or SPSC) is fine. Scroll down about mid-page for helmets.
http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/motors.html

 

[bairdco]

the cop knew it was a 2 stroke and while we were talking, i asked him about engine size. that's when he told me the "under 50cc" myth didn't matter. section 406a is for 2 or 4 stroke, up to 110cc's. after that it's considered a motorcycle.

a DOT helmet is a motorcycle with a DOT sticker or tag on it.

i was wearing a pro-tec skateboard helmet when i got pulled over. bicycle helmets are allowed if your bike's electric, but if it's motorized, you need a real motorcycle helmet. you can get small half-shell ones. the helmet i have is actually more comfortable than my pro-tec, and it's about the same as far as being bulky.

i just spent a while all over the DMV website looking up insurance, and the only thing i could find was the disclosure that dealers are supposed to include with each sale :

"YOUR INSURANCE POLICIES MAY NOT PROVIDE COVERAGE FOR ACCIDENTS INVOLVING THE USE OF THIS BICYCLE. TO DETERMINE IF COVERAGE IS PROVIDED YOU SHOULD CONTACT YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY OR AGENT."

it doesn't say anywhere that we need insurance, nor does it say we don't. the cop that stopped me (twice) said that was all he found on it too, but he still thinks we need insurance.

my advice? do what ever you want. take your own chances. i'm not telling anyone what to do, just what i've been told, and what i've learned.

wanna be all anarchy about it with no helmet or registration? knock yourself out. i don't care anymore.

i'm sick of arguing about what we need and what we don't. sooner or later (probably sooner) the "Man" will have it all figured out, and come to collect. when that day comes, i'll be legally riding passed the cop with your bike in his trunk...

here's a copy of the "cheat sheet" the cop gave me (notice how it's wrong anyway. it says "w/o pedals"):

 

[bairdco]

bluesjr, you got 406a and 406b confused. 406a is gas motor, 406b is electric. from the same page:

Motorcycles, Motor-Driven Cycles, Motorized Bicycles/Mopeds (Section 406(a) VC ) - A helmet meeting Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 218, self-certified by the manufacturer and displaying a 'DOT' emblem must be worn by all riders of motocycles, motor-driven cycles, and motorized bicycles/mopends.

 

[bluesjr]

here's a copy of the "cheat sheet" the cop gave me (notice how it's wrong anyway. it says "w/o pedals"):

Thx for the sheet. I'm guessing his local dept is going way overboard on motorized bikes. But I had plan to register anyway, and wear a helmet, and I'll probably be ordering a 2-stroke later today.

What brand/model is your DOT helmet? I like the look of those chopped motorcycle helmets. And if it's comfortable ...

bluesjr