To our moderators

[Finfan]

OK, I'd like to start by saying that overall you do a great job at riding herd over this disparate group of lunatics. You couldn't pay me to take that task on.

I'm writing this because over the last couple of months I've had two posts deleted. The first contained what I thought was a very mildly (in my opinion) inferred obscenity that should not have been considered offensive at all. The second was last night when I snarled back at somebody who was being rude to one of our more respected members. I won't argue that one since it could have lead to a flame war. However it seems to me like some of you are trying to maintain a G rating in an R rated world. I would just like to suggest you settle for PG-13. This isn't Sunday School.

Were now return you to your regularly scheduled program!

 

[paul]

reason for a lot of the censorship as you call it is this is a motorized bicycle forum. it is a place to share and learn from each other how to get the most out of our rides. it is a place to meet other people that love the same hobby as us. if a post is going to start arguments and hard feeling between members i prefer for them to to be removed or edited. we do our best to make this a nice fun place for everyone and we cannot please everyone and we know this. there are plenty of forums on the net for talking about politics and everything and anything you can think of. this forum is for motorized bicycles

 

[BarelyAWake]

We actually try really hard to keep such "censorship" to a minimum - honestly with the staff we have here I wholeheartedly trust any decisions they've made.

There will always be disagreements regarding if something "crossed a line" and naturally anyone who posted something only to have it deleted would think it less than the person who found it necessary to delete it. Many times related posts less offensive are also deleted to maintain continuity - there's no point in removing half an argument and leave one statement hanging out of context.

Still, I gotta say that while this has been brought up before - there's really very, very little "meddling" here, the overwhelming vast majority of removed threads/posts are spam. What others get pulled - get pulled for good reason.

To be brutally honest what editing does get done - the original poster usually knew full well they were outa line, and they posted it anyway even knowing we'd hafta step in. Despite the fact there's a few repeat offenders, instead of utilizing the penalty system so common on other forums and even available with the software here (infractions) most times we'll send 'em off a PM and clean up w/e mess they made and not bother with such formality.

What bugs the heck out of me is instead of even trying to resolve conflict or even query as to what's up directly via PM, some will just hafta make a exhibition out of the littlest things and ruin a perfectly good thread... making us the janitors instead of friends and moderators. There's a report button should you see something that gets you riled, it's our job to get rid of the flamers - steppin' in swingin' is just another thing we hafta clean up. You can of course post a dissenting opinion, but if you're just as hostile and rude as the one that pissed you off - you're not helping matters any.

When it comes down to it, we don't interfere if we simply disagree - trust me it ain't worth the headache. TBH as staff we have a LOT less freedom to express ourselves than you guys do, you're an individual with a personal opinion - we're representatives whom hafta keep all the members in mind, if we make a statement - it's often interpreted as policy with all the possible repercussions. One of the fastest ways to reduce the number of posts someone makes is to make them a moderator.

Personally - whenever I see conflict, I PM the people involved. It's the rare and serious exception should I do otherwise and that's usually when it's gotten completely out of control when no staff were present - even then I'll send a PM after the fact. If ya didn't get a PM from me - I didn't have a problem w/you.

Again though - such censorship is so very rare that it really an exception and not the rule. Particularly if you take into account the huge number of members and posts per day.


When it comes down to it, if you feel persecuted by staff you are still quite free. Free to contest something with another staff member as an intermediary, free to complain to the administration - even free to just leave if that's what you wish. Unlike staff - you're even free to ignore problems.

 

[deacon]

My guilt is wasting space with very unimportant posts. Anytime you feel the need to free up space feel free to delete my tripe. I might take offense at some post but I haven't seen one yet. The **** out of words I hear on tv is a bit much in my opinion, but then everyone has an opinion. Let the collective conscience be your guide I suppose.

I understand that it is because some of these members are young enough to be my grand kids. I can't stop my grandkids from watching TV. To be honest I have a feeling that any kids young enough not to have heard that kind of language, isn't able to read anyway. Like I said everybody has an opinion and mine isn't all that strong just a passing note.

 

[MaxPower]

I don't agree that all curse words should be censored. Cursing can be positive or negative depending on it's context. Words in of themselfs are meaningless. @!^*$%$#$$%

regarless of the law, I like this place and think the moderators are doing a good job

 

[MB-Monkey]

I really don't want my 9 year old reading curse words at all. The mods do a great job and have for a long time. It is a now benefit job give em a break.

 

[BarelyAWake]

To auto-censor the expletives was a decision made to encompass the largest demographic as uniformly as possible. While a large proportion of the population curse freely, many take it to what would be considered excessive by even those standards and generally offend all.

Add to this the interesting phenomenon that while those who use "taboo" words casually won't be terribly bothered by a lack of profanity - those more reserved may avoid a place completely if cussin' is rampant.

*shrug* whadda gonna do? It's kinda an all or nothin' thing with the software - even the staff isn't exempt.

The only other option is to rely on us to weed out those posts that just go beyond the pale - stuff just too graphic for the younger members, the gentle ones - those valued members male and female who just aren't up to the smut. Those ones that don't even complain because they too believe in free speech... they just leave and it's our loss.

I'm somewhat puzzled that this would come up in a thread started with the concern that the staff was being too intrusive, the main effect of allowing open profanity would be a drastic increase of mod intervention - we'd be constantly telling some people to cool it a bit and having to delete borderline pornography despite this being a site for discussing bikes. Not to sound cynical - but if you've strayed far on the 'net you've seen it I'm sure.

Rest assured I swear constantly "in real life" - if not to the point I fear my vocabulary is suffering for it. I too find the auto-censor somewhat... restrictive. It was in place before my time, it bothered me some, I got used to it. Now not only do I see some value - I've come to appreciate the challenge it provides. I hafta be a lot more creative to "flavor" my sentences. Even some of the sting is taken out of "That's a piece of ****" and ya might even get a point across if you're forced to explain. While I'm sure we could almost all be mature enough to actually speak coherently, heck this is by far one of the most civil and friendly places I've seen on the interwebz - ironically enough the automatic censoring is actually a tool used to lessen the amount of wielded authority, it's uniformity the epitome of fairness.

Personally - I don't like it either, but man - I respect the heck outa the benefits.

 

[hiker472]

I love it here and you guys do a great job. I think if people really want profanity, they ought to wander over to the Buzz on yahoo! I always thought that too much profanity makes an educated man into an uneducated idiot and thankfully this site is a wholesome place............it stands above the mire of the rest!

 

[deacon]

Well I guess that is pretty clear.....

We fall into two camps on this. I don't expect to change anyone's mind, nor do I expect you to change mine. So this was a waste all the way around, as most philosophical discussions are.

Funny thing is I'm not awfully profane, but I do say profane things now and then in real life. Let me hit my finger with a hammer and yes I say a few things my grandson shouldn't hear but he has. I don't find it objectionable when a grown man says his motor is a piece of excrement. If my five year old grandson said it, i might be upset, Even if he is mimicking me. I have found it useful to say, "Hey when you are my age you can say it to." Seems to work pretty well. It's called adult supervision.

I also use profanity when I write now and then. It's to make a point, not to insult anyone, weak enough to read what I write. The world is full of different kinds of people and it's probably not a good idea to isolate ourselves from what we consider the good, nor from what we consider the bad. It is probably best to learn from them all. Anyway Good luck to us all in trying to keep our kids and grand kids safe.

First thing we need to do is turn off our tvs when they are in the house. But alas tv is the cheapest babysitter around.

You know I was here almost from the start and I have managed to stay out of this discussion until now. I must be getting old, but it's okay. It's just one of those things that I found amusing for a while, and now I find slightly irritating.

Those of you who suggest if we are not happy here we should move on, have a valid point. Of course your opinions mean the same as mine, nothing. Because we don't make the rules. The owner makes the rules and the moderators enforce them. Their point of view is well stated, so those are the opinions we need to honor, or move on. A forum, like most things in life, is not a democracy.

 

[hiker472]

I've read a lot of your posts Deacon, and can't see where you're coming from.

I hope that when I wrote my views concerning profanity, you didn't take it with extremeness. I understand that at times it falls into a need of sorts....like they say, "There's a time and a place for everything."

What I was talking about was more in the nature of spewing profanity, and that is something that is not found on this sight.

 

[Finfan]

The point I was trying to make was that I didn't use any profanity in the first post that was deleted. Just a three letter acronym which when translated would have included a curse word. A practice that I see around here all of the time. I also didn't cuss in the second one but I was being rude to somebody for being rude to somebody else. A foolish move but it was late, I was tired, and that post really irritated me. Sorry about that one O' noble moderators!

 

[marts1]

nothin wrong with the way it is

 

[diceman2004]

in real life i swear every second word , i don,t like it , and i,m the one it bothers the most .

i don,t find this forum over censored at all . everyone has the right to their own opinion .
but lets not forget , this is the owners house and we play by the house rules .

i just find it really amusing at how much time and effort some people put into coming up with a combination of keyboard characters to imply a swear word .

 

[paul]

how is that working for you living in las vegas?

in my opinion 9 year olds don't belong on forums. in fact a few forums i'm on have a box to check if you are over 13 when registering for the forum.

the ****** for the bad words doesn't bother me much cause every one knows what i'm trying to say when i say holy ****
i'm not gonna change the way i talk in real life when i'm on a forum so i'm glad that it gets *'d out. i know some people don't want to read bad words all the time.

my only problem is the deleting posts.
you can't please everybody, just cause one overly sensitive member gets offended by something doesn't mean you should delete it.
of course if people are going back and forth just flaming each other then go a head and delete the posts or thread.

it's hard for me cause the forum i'm most active on is the exact opposite of this. there is really no rules at all. well we have some rules that new members have to follow. if they don't make a intro post then they will most likely be banned. other than that there are no rules and no auto censor for words.
it's very hard to remember i'm not on that site when i make posts on other forums. so hard that i've been banned from a few forums because of it.

my granddaughter and grandson helped me make this forum. helping pick colors and helped with the design of the banner and yes they come on here all the time because they are a part of it. they have every right in the world to be on it. i own the forum i make the rules and they are pretty simple. show everyone respect no matter what their age. i really do not think that is to much to ask. one of the smileys hiker made for another member which is the 2 grandaughters riding in the cart made for the motorized bicycle and i am sure they love to get on here with thier grandpa. i also swear big time and slip sometimes around kids and other people i shouldn't swear around however i do my best not to and it is very simple to correct on a forum before hitting the enter button. everyone love bicycles no matter what their age and you put a motor on them and WOW words cannot describe. kids may not read the forum but trust me they love to look at all the cool bikes our members make and dream about one day building and riding one

 

[Pablo]

I think the moderators here do a GREAT job. Very, very light handed.

If you want to swear, find another forum. Go in your shop, or whatever. I mean do you guys walk into school, church, theater, work, a bike shop, Home Depot, or any private store open to the public and just say any nasty words you want? Please, this isn't 3rd grade when we all discovered the power of certain words.........like it or not using vulgarities brings us all down a notch. I'm not some puritan by the way, criminy - I've let a few fly.....

 

[azbill]

this place is the best forum for motor-assisted-bicycles... period !!!
Paul is right, my granddaughters love seeing pictures of Grampa's bike here
and they helped pick the colors for 'THEIR' smiley (thanks again Hiker )

the atmosphere here is friendly and relaxed...I think the mods/admin do a fine job,,,
thanks guys !!!

 

[leftywoody]

I have a need to practice clean english ,since my work life has been spent in factories where most any rough language is acceptable . It is a challenge to quit using profanity when I am so used to using it .Now , at the highschool where I work I hear it from the kids and it is not so cute . And when I hear it from younger kids than that , it gets downright repulsive . This is as good a place as any to practice the art of cleanlyness . And when I stub my toe or smack my finger I can yell out a dirty word and it has more meaning . Hope I didn't get too off track from what this thred was started for .

 

[marts1]

I've been around quite awhile and have lived different lifestyles and have associated with all kinds of people. I can't help but notice the people that are in better control of thier language are generaly happier. I have a certain brother whose every second word is **** or ***** and he is miserable, very rare to see him in a good mood. Of course I have my personal experience but who cares about that.

 

[bairdco]

I mean do you guys walk into school, church, theater, work, a bike shop, Home Depot, or any private store open to the public and just say any nasty words you want?

i swear everytime i walk into a Home Depot. i hate that place.

as far as this forum goes, i think it's pretty well balanced. it tips a little to the "overly protective mother" side, but overall, it works out. i know there's some times when i just want to go off, especially when someone makes a ridiculous comment like the one that set FinFan off, but i just try to let it slide, or i try to sneak in a joke.

i've had a few posts deleted that i think shoulda stayed, but in the end, i'm a guest here. if you tell me to smoke outside, i'll go outside...

 

[marts1]

lol...watch it stay there