disc brakes
- Thread starter rickie h
- Start date
NunyaBidness
Active Member
At this point probably not. When you upgrade to disc brakes, you also need to upgrade your wheels so that they can handle the added stress of disc brakes.
I have a set of Hope minis with goodridge hoses that i have had for years and have been on countless bikes. They are so simple to work on, reliable and offer a brilliant amount of stopping power. The pads last forever and i've used them on my commuter clocking up huge miles, on my downhill bike riding international uci downhill tracks, on my xc bike being fully submerged in water and half hour fast desents with start stop switch backs and havn't had any problems what so ever. I would whole heartedly recommend a good set of disc brakes to everyone. For your first disc brakes I would look for ease of use and general enjoyment, so go for hydraulic Hayes or Hope.
Venice Motor Bikes
Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
Disc brakes are the best! period!!
Retmachinist
New Member
Disc brakes are sweet but, if your frame doesn't have mounts for the calipers or your wheels don't have the hubs for the disc's it can get pretty pricey changing over. I built all the adaptor parts for one of mine, and although that was alot cheaper it was VERY time consuming.
John
John
tyrslider
New Member
Brakes Are The Most Important Item On Your MB!
Most bicycle brakes, properly adjusted, provide plenty of power. The problems w/ the various other types, beyond adjustment, are wet operation, linear effect and fade.
Generalizations:
Disc brakes and drum brakes are good in wet and dry conditions and will not fade (become < effective when used a lot or under heavy load). Disc and drum brakes provide linear braking effect (brake effect increases evenly as you increase lever actuation). Discs will, in almost all cases, stop you faster than drums (there are exceptions). Bicycle drums are great because they don't lock up and are designed for the heavier loads.
Good, well adjusted, v brakes w/ good quality pads will do everything those mentioned above will do almost as good. Most quality bikes come w/ 'em and they are a good econo choice.
Cantilevers are hard to adjust properly and lock up easilly. But other than that quality brakes from about the late Seventies on, properly adjusted and fitted w/ good pads will do the trick.
Avoid crappy sidepull and coaster brakes; they are dangerous!
Most bicycle brakes, properly adjusted, provide plenty of power. The problems w/ the various other types, beyond adjustment, are wet operation, linear effect and fade.
Generalizations:
Disc brakes and drum brakes are good in wet and dry conditions and will not fade (become < effective when used a lot or under heavy load). Disc and drum brakes provide linear braking effect (brake effect increases evenly as you increase lever actuation). Discs will, in almost all cases, stop you faster than drums (there are exceptions). Bicycle drums are great because they don't lock up and are designed for the heavier loads.
Good, well adjusted, v brakes w/ good quality pads will do everything those mentioned above will do almost as good. Most quality bikes come w/ 'em and they are a good econo choice.
Cantilevers are hard to adjust properly and lock up easilly. But other than that quality brakes from about the late Seventies on, properly adjusted and fitted w/ good pads will do the trick.
Avoid crappy sidepull and coaster brakes; they are dangerous!
I just sold a bike on craigslist because of 2 factors and it was a great bike. Centerpull brakes was the deciding factor , no front suspension was the other. I concurr if your just getting a regular bike linear brakes is the only way to go. Disc brakes are great but you need to check out their stopping power to see if their adequate for your circumstances and pocket book.
bairdco
a guy who makes cool bikes
pffft. there's nothing wrong with a good coaster brake. if you keep it greased up and adjusted right, it'll work just fine, forever.
i think they get a bad rap because people find them so difficult to overhaul, and most people remember them from their old bikes, the one they had for 20 years without ever touching it, or the old rusty beach cruiser they bought where it had the coaster brake arm held on with a coat hanger.
coaster brakes work awesome in the rain, you can vary the stopping power easily by the amount of back-pedaling you do, you can power-slide a skid just by standing on it, and you don't have extra levers and cables all over the place.
i'll concede that if you have a crappy, un-maintained hub, it can fail, and if your chain falls off, you've got no brakes, but any part that's not maintained can fail, brake cables can snap, disc brakes can crack or get smashed, i've had brake levers snap off in my hand, seen brake pads come loose and jam into spokes when the brake was pulled...
i know this thread was about disc brakes, but i just gotta chime in with my opinion when i read someone making a generalized statement about a component that's still in use over 100 years since it's conception.
in the end, it's all up to you, and what you want to ride.
tyrslider
New Member
I agree w/ you on some points bairdco. They work in the rain (I wouldn't say awesome), they Are simple to overhaul, and they just don't ever seem to wear out. However coaster brakes fade when overheated, you must pedal forward to change foot position and many bikes that have coasters have no other brakes. Which is fine for a beach cruiser being pedaled. On an MB that is dangerous!
A coaster w/ an additional front brake is adiquate. But to me not very confidence inspiring. I advocate equipment that is confidence inspiring.
So I respectfully disagree w/ you. That is to say that you make some good points and I did not support my statement w/ details or facts to prove my point. Thank You
Like you said it's up to the individual. To me they're not even a consideration; I don't see any benefits of using them. However there are hoards of folks around here who sware by 'em.
Bicycle Coaster Brakes
Pro:
Coaster brakes are unaffected by weather. They work just as well in the rain as they do in dry conditions.
Coaster brakes generally require less maintenance than any other type of brake.
There are no cables running from the handlebars, giving a tidy and simple appearance.
The lack of cables is particualrly advantageous for folding or take-apart bikes.
Coaster brakes can be a good choice for handicapped riders who lack sufficient hand strength, or for arm amputees.
Coaster brakes are usually quite narrow, fit in 110-114 mm spacing , though they can be fitted to frames with wider spacing by adding washers along the axle.
Cons:
Coaster brakes make it awkward to get started up, since there's no easy way to rotate the pedals to a good starting position.
Coaster brakes often cause skidding, resulting in excessive tire wear.
When coaster brakes fail (usually the result of chain breakage or derailment) they fail suddenly and completely.
Coaster brakes are prone to overheating and fading when used in mountainous areas. (i.e. extra speed and weight in the case of mb's E.C.)
Too many bikes are equipped with only a coaster brake, so there's no back-up system available in the event of brake failure.
To be safe, any bicycle needs a front brake and some sort of secondary backup braking system.
A coaster w/ an additional front brake is adiquate. But to me not very confidence inspiring. I advocate equipment that is confidence inspiring.
So I respectfully disagree w/ you. That is to say that you make some good points and I did not support my statement w/ details or facts to prove my point. Thank You
Like you said it's up to the individual. To me they're not even a consideration; I don't see any benefits of using them. However there are hoards of folks around here who sware by 'em.
Bicycle Coaster Brakes
Pro:
Coaster brakes are unaffected by weather. They work just as well in the rain as they do in dry conditions.
Coaster brakes generally require less maintenance than any other type of brake.
There are no cables running from the handlebars, giving a tidy and simple appearance.
The lack of cables is particualrly advantageous for folding or take-apart bikes.
Coaster brakes can be a good choice for handicapped riders who lack sufficient hand strength, or for arm amputees.
Coaster brakes are usually quite narrow, fit in 110-114 mm spacing , though they can be fitted to frames with wider spacing by adding washers along the axle.
Cons:
Coaster brakes make it awkward to get started up, since there's no easy way to rotate the pedals to a good starting position.
Coaster brakes often cause skidding, resulting in excessive tire wear.
When coaster brakes fail (usually the result of chain breakage or derailment) they fail suddenly and completely.
Coaster brakes are prone to overheating and fading when used in mountainous areas. (i.e. extra speed and weight in the case of mb's E.C.)
Too many bikes are equipped with only a coaster brake, so there's no back-up system available in the event of brake failure.
To be safe, any bicycle needs a front brake and some sort of secondary backup braking system.
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bairdco
a guy who makes cool bikes
here's the rest of my "argument" about coaster brakes being prone to failure:
Rim brakes:
Brake pads can wear down quickly, and have to be replaced.
Rims should be checked for wear periodically as they can fail catastrophically if the rim sidewalls become too worn. Depending on the brake pads and rim, this can happen after a few thousand miles if heavily used in wet and muddy conditions.
The cables also can wear through repeated use over a long time, however they are more likely to get damaged through getting kinked or the open end becoming unraveled. If the inner cables are not replaced when they fray, they can suddenly break when brakes are applied strongly, causing brakes to be lost when they are most needed. Rim brakes also require that the rim be relatively straight; if the rim has a pronounced wobble, then either the brake pads rub against it when the brakes are released, or apply insufficient and uneven pressure to the rim when certain brakes e.g. dual pivot, are applied.
On heavily-laden touring bikes and tandems in mountainous regions, the heat build-up over a long descent can increase tire pressure so much that the tire blows off the rim. If this happens on the front wheel, a serious accident is almost inevitable. The problem is worse when descending cautiously at slow speeds because the brakes are "always on" and the cooling airflow over the rim is insufficient.
Disc Brake:
A disc brake puts more stress on a wheel's spokes than a rim brake, since the torque of braking is between the hub and the rim. The spokes therefore must be stronger, this leads to slightly heavier and more expensive wheels.
While a disc brake does not heat the rim, excessive heat build up can lead to disc failure. Bicycle discs are extremely lightweight, relative to the mass of bike and rider, compared to the large cast iron discs on an automobile, and therefore have little heat capacity. If brake friction exceeds convection and radiation losses, the temperature of the disc can very rapidly reach levels at which the metal begins to weaken and may warp or crack under braking stress. Therefore a disc is less suitable than a drum as a tandem drag brake, and heavy bikes (and riders) should choose the largest diameter discs available to increase heat capacity and cooling area.
Also, the hydraulic fluid may boil on steep, continuous downhills. This is due to heat build up in the disc and pads and can cause the brake to lose its ability to transmit force ("brake fade") through incompressible fluids, since some of it has become a gas, which is compressible.
(thanks, wikipedia)
what i'm re-iterating, is all brakes can overheat, and fail catastrophically.
i agree that having front and rear brakes is the safest route (although i don't, i just run a coaster,) but to condemn one over the other isn't justifiable. it still comes down to rider preference, and what you're used to.
and as far as stopping goes, a bicycle and a rider traveling at 35 mph, when confronted by a turning car right in front of you, no matter how good your equipment is, the car is going to be the "brake" that stops you. laws of motion dictate that even if your bike can stop instantly, you won't.
besides all of that, the main choice of MB's seems to be a department store cruiser, and in my opinion, those bikes aren't safe, with or without a motor.
i also want to add, that i'm not putting down any of the braking systems out there. discs are great, drums are cool, whatever. i'm just sticking up for the poor, often maligned, coaster brake. someone's gotta do it...
Rim brakes:
Brake pads can wear down quickly, and have to be replaced.
Rims should be checked for wear periodically as they can fail catastrophically if the rim sidewalls become too worn. Depending on the brake pads and rim, this can happen after a few thousand miles if heavily used in wet and muddy conditions.
The cables also can wear through repeated use over a long time, however they are more likely to get damaged through getting kinked or the open end becoming unraveled. If the inner cables are not replaced when they fray, they can suddenly break when brakes are applied strongly, causing brakes to be lost when they are most needed. Rim brakes also require that the rim be relatively straight; if the rim has a pronounced wobble, then either the brake pads rub against it when the brakes are released, or apply insufficient and uneven pressure to the rim when certain brakes e.g. dual pivot, are applied.
On heavily-laden touring bikes and tandems in mountainous regions, the heat build-up over a long descent can increase tire pressure so much that the tire blows off the rim. If this happens on the front wheel, a serious accident is almost inevitable. The problem is worse when descending cautiously at slow speeds because the brakes are "always on" and the cooling airflow over the rim is insufficient.
Disc Brake:
A disc brake puts more stress on a wheel's spokes than a rim brake, since the torque of braking is between the hub and the rim. The spokes therefore must be stronger, this leads to slightly heavier and more expensive wheels.
While a disc brake does not heat the rim, excessive heat build up can lead to disc failure. Bicycle discs are extremely lightweight, relative to the mass of bike and rider, compared to the large cast iron discs on an automobile, and therefore have little heat capacity. If brake friction exceeds convection and radiation losses, the temperature of the disc can very rapidly reach levels at which the metal begins to weaken and may warp or crack under braking stress. Therefore a disc is less suitable than a drum as a tandem drag brake, and heavy bikes (and riders) should choose the largest diameter discs available to increase heat capacity and cooling area.
Also, the hydraulic fluid may boil on steep, continuous downhills. This is due to heat build up in the disc and pads and can cause the brake to lose its ability to transmit force ("brake fade") through incompressible fluids, since some of it has become a gas, which is compressible.
(thanks, wikipedia)
what i'm re-iterating, is all brakes can overheat, and fail catastrophically.
i agree that having front and rear brakes is the safest route (although i don't, i just run a coaster,) but to condemn one over the other isn't justifiable. it still comes down to rider preference, and what you're used to.
and as far as stopping goes, a bicycle and a rider traveling at 35 mph, when confronted by a turning car right in front of you, no matter how good your equipment is, the car is going to be the "brake" that stops you. laws of motion dictate that even if your bike can stop instantly, you won't.
besides all of that, the main choice of MB's seems to be a department store cruiser, and in my opinion, those bikes aren't safe, with or without a motor.
i also want to add, that i'm not putting down any of the braking systems out there. discs are great, drums are cool, whatever. i'm just sticking up for the poor, often maligned, coaster brake. someone's gotta do it...
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tyrslider
New Member
You make great points bairdco (I believe we agree more than not). Braking technique is important as well as brake choice.
It should be noted that the HD coaster hub on a Worksman wheel, for example, is of a higher quality than the coaster on a Mall Wart bike; as w/ any componant quality varies w/in types as well as accross different types.
Having been an avid bike rider since I was six (32 yrs ago) and an avid motorcyclist (from vintage to modern) for 22 yrs I feel confident riding anything w/ 2 wheels. But when I hear someone ask very rudimentary questions about something as important as brakes I'm going to point them in the direction of the most effective, simple and proven safe options I know of.
You love coasters; more power to you. You know what to expect from them. But do you really think that they are superior or just trying to denounce my comment about their being dangerous. 'cause I was referring to the (any global race to the bottom) dept. store bicycle coaster brake and the rest of the bike for that matter.
Now I'm gonna catch flack for that. But the truth is that I don't ride crap w/ pedals, w/ a motor or w/ pedals and a motor. So I don't recommend others to do it either.
The other dynamic that you may or may not realize about mb's is that a huge # of people, who don't ride bicycles or motorcycles and have very little idea of the various dangers associated w/ riding them in traffic, see an mb and say to themselves "I want one of those". They seem unintimidating and fun, and they are, but they are every bit as dangerous as bicycles and m/c's. These are often the same people who pick the cheapest bicycle they can find to fit a motor to. I think this the recipe for disaster.
I want mb's to be popular and prolific and have a vested interest in them being so. But I strongly believe that mb's are for experienced riders and those w/o a lot of experience need careful guidence and experience carefully gained. Otherwise people will be needlessly hurt and that will inevitably hurt motorized bicycle riding in general.
Please understand that I don't wish to bicker or argue; I take no offense and I hope no one is by my words either. I'm really glad to live in a place where people are essentially free to make their own choices and to have great forums to voice our opinions and experience on these matters. I also believe in making informed decisions; I welcome and consider opinions contrary to my own. Thanks!
It should be noted that the HD coaster hub on a Worksman wheel, for example, is of a higher quality than the coaster on a Mall Wart bike; as w/ any componant quality varies w/in types as well as accross different types.
Having been an avid bike rider since I was six (32 yrs ago) and an avid motorcyclist (from vintage to modern) for 22 yrs I feel confident riding anything w/ 2 wheels. But when I hear someone ask very rudimentary questions about something as important as brakes I'm going to point them in the direction of the most effective, simple and proven safe options I know of.
You love coasters; more power to you. You know what to expect from them. But do you really think that they are superior or just trying to denounce my comment about their being dangerous. 'cause I was referring to the (any global race to the bottom) dept. store bicycle coaster brake and the rest of the bike for that matter.
Now I'm gonna catch flack for that. But the truth is that I don't ride crap w/ pedals, w/ a motor or w/ pedals and a motor. So I don't recommend others to do it either.
The other dynamic that you may or may not realize about mb's is that a huge # of people, who don't ride bicycles or motorcycles and have very little idea of the various dangers associated w/ riding them in traffic, see an mb and say to themselves "I want one of those". They seem unintimidating and fun, and they are, but they are every bit as dangerous as bicycles and m/c's. These are often the same people who pick the cheapest bicycle they can find to fit a motor to. I think this the recipe for disaster.
I want mb's to be popular and prolific and have a vested interest in them being so. But I strongly believe that mb's are for experienced riders and those w/o a lot of experience need careful guidence and experience carefully gained. Otherwise people will be needlessly hurt and that will inevitably hurt motorized bicycle riding in general.
Please understand that I don't wish to bicker or argue; I take no offense and I hope no one is by my words either. I'm really glad to live in a place where people are essentially free to make their own choices and to have great forums to voice our opinions and experience on these matters. I also believe in making informed decisions; I welcome and consider opinions contrary to my own. Thanks!
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bairdco
a guy who makes cool bikes
i agree completely with everything you just wrote. in fact, i wrote something similar, here:
http://motorbicycling.com/f31/common-sense-12314.html
http://motorbicycling.com/f31/common-sense-12314.html
europorsche914
Member
disc brakes are great atleast the mountain bike brakes they install on chinese 110cc mini moto bikes... I can do endos on my x18 with the stock mountain bike brakes and believe me it is heavier than almost any bicycle w/ frame mounted engine... I have heard of coaster brakes overheating but have not used a bike with coaster brake since i was 12. I have exploded my inner tub due to using a v brake too much and overheating the rim. Be safe -Justin
Technocyclist
Motorized Bicycle Senior Technologist
Disc brakes are great... no need to worry about the rain... but it can also make your wallet go from $100 to 0 in a blink of an eye or less... 
Venice Motor Bikes
Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles
You've heard the old saying, "Speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?"
Well, so does stopping!! "How fast do you want to stop?"
Well, so does stopping!! "How fast do you want to stop?"
Elmo
New Member
I agree with you completely about the people who come to MB's without experience riding bicycles and motorcycles in traffic. I have rtdden motorcycles from harleys to honda 50's (my first motorcycle)
and have ridden bicycles for the last 20 years. Experience is a great teacher.
Elmo