whizzer clutch

DannyDodge

New Member
May 22, 2008
10
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32
Detroit,Michigan
www.motownmuscle.com
anyone words on how to make the clutch work better on the reproduction models? i cant even pedal start the bike, and it takes me 15 mins to get it started due to the belt slipping when i kick it over,l other than that its a sweet bike we got over 50 miles on it
 

MotorbikeMike

Dealer
Dec 29, 2007
477
1
18
Sacramento
Belt adjustment

Hi Danny, other people will want to know the proceedure.

It is always good to tell the year, and if you have manual or auto clutch. I am going to guiess you have an auto. And nice to know where you are located.

The best tool to adjust your belts will be easily made by sawing a 2x4 into a wedge about 12-14 inches long.

Your front belt is the one that will usually slip, as it has the smallest amount of belt to pully contact.

Make sure first that your chain has proper tension, and that the rear wheel is straight.

If not correct that first.

Now, with the bike on it's stand, rotate the rear wheel, and watch to see which belt slips.

The rear belt tension is adjusted mainly by the upper bolt in the slot (nut is on the right side in fron of the welded motormount)

Front belt tension is adjusted by the bottom nut under the engine.

In either case, loosen the "Hands" on the front bar.

Remove chrome belt guard (4 screws)

Set your wedge between the engine and the seat tube, be sure to aim high enugh not to clobber the chain guard.

Tap the wedge in with heavy hammer, I use Rubber dead-blow mallet.

Snug all nuts and bolts, tap out the wedge, and you are done.

I usually test ride without the belt guard in case I'm not happy with the adjustments.

IF you cannot get your belts tight enough, they are streached, and will require replacement, tho this is rare on low milage bikes.

Mike
 

Egor

New Member
Jan 30, 2008
714
0
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Hurricane Utah
Mike on the whizzer I just got, it is a 24" auto clutch and it has no provision for a clutch cable like Paul's bike. I have been messing around with the thing and decided to leave the bolt through the clutch joint loose and let the spring keep it tight. Is that the correct method? I was thinking that if it kept things tight for the cable bike, why not! Also it has an elongated hole for the bolt so that everything can move forward or back to accommodate the belts, IE, it will keep them both the same tension. This bike has a larger header than the earlier bike, looks OK, different sound. I am going to move the cam tomorrow and get to the timing as quick as poss. The carb is fat but I think after I get the other things moved it may be just rite. It needs the two speed. Have fun, Dave
 

H20rider

New Member
Aug 27, 2008
18
0
0
Is it advisable on a 1999 Whizzer (stock but about to do full power upgrades) to change a manual clutch to an auto clutch? There seem to be obvious advantages, but are there disadvantages of an auto clutch? Relative reliability and durability? Maintenance?
Thanks
 

MotorbikeMike

Dealer
Dec 29, 2007
477
1
18
Sacramento
Hi Guys, before I give any answer, or opinions let me preface by saying that I LIKE maunal clutches, and 4-speeds, and HotRods cars and such.

With that said I can honestly state that on the whole, the Manual does require more attention to the belts.

I have gone thru a couple or three on my own bike, BUT for me, the trade-off is that 6.49 replaces a clutch in my Manual bikes, and is infiantely repairable to the extreme, that on my vacation, I changed a front belt, on the sidewalk of a Kragens, and roared off in just a few minutes.

On the other hand, IF the auto-clutch DID need servicing, it would not be possible to buy any parts a Kragen, other than the belt.

A properly adjusted and seated Auto is simple to ride, and MIGHT out accellerate a Manual, depending on the rider. The Auto requires NO skill to ride, just roll throttle, and aim the bike in the direction desired.

The auto requires being taken off and "split" about every 300-400 miles to clean and grease (lightly) the inner bearings. This is easy to do.

OK now, the hole in the auto-clutch is SUPPOSED to be round, tho I ave seen a "slotted" one, I don't think slotting that are is a good idea.

The earliest auto's had manual arms with the slot, that was stopped along the way.

About early 2006 the larger pipe came out it WILL improve the performance overall, as will the new gold-wrapped silencer insert.

If you do decide to change out your manual clutch, let me know, I am interested in the Manual parts for my own bikes.


Mike
 

Egor

New Member
Jan 30, 2008
714
0
0
Hurricane Utah
I looked at the clutch mounting today and noticed that if I reach in from the right side and grab the top of the pulleys I can wiggle then, like the hole is too large for the bolt, YES it is elongated from the factory. I guess with belts it doesn't matter there is not much alignment. The forty's way doesn't seem to fit in a modern time warp. I took the cover off to move the cam and found it moved! the bike has never been fooled with, Oh Well. The carb is a pain it is so fat the thing just blubbers, I took the air filter off to see if it would be better no luck, the main jet is too large, the cut on the front is too small and the needle is too high. I want an old tillotson. A pic of the way I found the timing. Have fun, Dave

PS: Those lifters are the worst.
 

Attachments

MotorbikeMike

Dealer
Dec 29, 2007
477
1
18
Sacramento
HI, well some of the cams were set correctly at the factory, mostly more recently, but the early ones were almost always retarded ( marks on center).

The Whizzer can use the newer Mushroom lifters, which are more efficient, especially if they are "tuned" a little.

The carb can work well and I and others have jets for it.

An old tillitson would be, as they say in Mexico "Un gigante dolor en el culo", I would not want to chase parts for a 50 year old plus carb at this point.

If you want to try other carbs, I have heard of Kien Hien, Mikuni, Walbro, and I am sure there are others, tho that stock cab can work very nicely, and is, for the most part, stable and trouble-free.

Let us know what you are up to, and remember, the Whiz in is not that far away!

Mike
 

H20rider

New Member
Aug 27, 2008
18
0
0
Thanks a lot. Think I'll stick with the manual.
Any brake improvements possible while keeping the manual?
Again, thanks
 

Egor

New Member
Jan 30, 2008
714
0
0
Hurricane Utah
I moved the ignition timing today WoW what a difference. After I got it started the idle was too high, the engine was not laboring any more. I even had to adj the idle mixture again, then I took it for a ride, well it was like a completely different bike, it is still too fat but when I cut the throttle back to a place it does not blubber it really takes off. I want to see what the head looks like and see what I can do there. I have built some old flathead Fords and we used to relieve them and get a few extra HP's. Ill keep you posted. Have fun, Dave

PS: Mike, do you have the mushroom valve lifters?
 

MotorbikeMike

Dealer
Dec 29, 2007
477
1
18
Sacramento
Hi Egor, you moved the ignition timing, not the cam timing? I am out of the mzushrooms, but am about to make an order, as I'm overhauling a wc-1 tomorrow, and I'm using a bunch of parts I'll need to restock/replace.

Brake improvements with manual clutch, I guess not unless you have 3 hands?

Mike
 
The history of the Whizzer clutch

I will start this article by quoting the original description of part number 2086 as printed in the 1952 Dealer’s Catalog.


“Purpose
The use of the trunnion bushing will provide easier operation of the entire clutch system. It will also serve as a replacement for all model “H” and “J” motors now in use. Those units, which show considerable wear in the trunnion hole, can readily be overhauled by the installation of this bushing. The use of this bushing in units of this type will prevent mis-alignment of the clutch pulley, reduce service complaints on the rear wheel belts, and provide better service for the customer.”
I guess as early as 1952 someone realized it was important for the pulleys to be in alignment to make the clutch work correctly. It only takes a brief look at the clutch setup on the new edition Whizzers to discover something was lost in the translation. Instead of a nice fitting trunnion pin [#2405] inserted into a special “oilite” bushing [#2086] and pressed into the clutch arm [#2406], we have an off the shelf 12 MM [actually 11.8 MM shank] bolt loosely inserted into two 12 MM I.D. bushings then into a hole in the clutch arm and then held together with a nut. The end result is a loose fitting clutch arm that moves from side to side, and makes it impossible to work as well as possible.
All my new edition Whizzers have modified clutch arms, and I will gladly share with everyone how easy it is to make the changes. On my manual clutch Whizzers the modification has stopped the screeching noises, completely releases at the stop sign, takes off smoothly, and doesn’t slip under stress. On my automatic clutch Whizzers the clutch engages smoothly, bearings last forever, and grip completely [I can pull wheelies on a couple of my Whizzers].
And the fix is……… remove the excessive play where the arm bolts to the motor. The final objective is to remove all side play, so that the pulleys are in alignment. We are dealing with several problems at this junction; first the bolt shank is only 11.8 MM and is too small for the hole in the arm and the bushings at the rear of the motor. Replace the bolt with a piece of ½” drill rod machined to fit the arm and the bushings in the motor, but of course they are also different sizes. The drill rod should be cut down to .475” where it would fit the arm, and .471” to fit the bushings in the rear of the motor. I always drill and tap both ends of the drill rod, one to hold the pin in the motor and the other to make sure the pin and arm never separate.

If anyone wants pictures email me at [email protected]

Have fun,
Quenton
 

Egor

New Member
Jan 30, 2008
714
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Hurricane Utah
Mike - the cam timing was ahead when I got the cover off, so I just left it there. I moved the ignition timing last. I moved it so that the old hole is just visible it seems this is a good place. I would like to put a timing light on and see what it is. If you install the lifters, Does it lengthen the duration of the valves?

Quinton - the lever that the pulleys are hung on, at the point it conects to the engine is slotted. I was trying to leave the bolt just loose enough to allow the lever to move like the hand clutch. Today I put pressure on the assembly and snugged the bolt so that it will not move, it seems so far that this is the best method for this bike.

PS: I moved the needle to the slide down all the way, there was only one notch left. Pulled the baffle out of the muffler and went for a ride. That was all it needed no more fat. I went blazing out in the street and some guy shook his fist at me, I'm loving life. I have the baffle with the gold cover so I just made the holes in the ends larger, put the air filter back on and it still runs like it should. You just barley give it gas and it just purrrrr's and pulls you along. Got a new problem, oil leaking from the lifter box. Looks like the compression rod.
 
Hi Egor,
Mushroom lifters are a must if you have a high lift camshaft [lift above .150"]. I have test camshafts with lift above .212" but must be ground a special way to clear the flywheel throws. If the base of the lifter is wider [mushroom lifters]the lifter stays on top of the lobe longer and simply means the valve is held at maximum lift for a longer period of time. And I am sure there is some difference in duration, however it must be small, because I haven't been able to detect much difference with my equipment. However the motor will run much better with the wider lifters. I have tested 4 different types of mushroom lifters, one set special made for me by a friend using a stock WC-1 set, and machining part of a B & S lifter, then pressing them together, but it takes a world class machinist to pull that off. The second version was a stock set of vintage 1/2" lifters that I cut down to fit into the lifter bores [.393"] on the new edition motors. Third set was from Woodstock Whizzer Works, and the last was Whizzer's edition. Some of Ralph's were slightly oversized, but a little time with some #220 & #600 sandpaper easily corrected that issue. Whizzer's version can be modified to make a good set, so I suggest you purchase them through you Whizzer dealer, and I will gladly share the information needed.
The slotted arm presents a problem when trying to correct the loose connection at the motor. If at all possible I would suggest you obtain the arm with the single hole if you want to improve your clutch system. I conducted several tests today concerning the excess side play in the clutch arm & pulley. If you want a "cheap" test fix to see how much improvement is possible, simply remove the bolt, knurl the bolt to .471" on the part that passes through the motor and .475" on the part that passes through the hole in the arm. However the follwing must be true, first the bolt must pass through the arm, then through the motor, and the nut must be on the dip stick side of the motor. Secondly the arm must not have the slotted hole. Locking the clutch in place can cause 3 problems, first it is hard on the clutch bearings as the belt tightens and loosens, and secondly in my tests it caused rear spokes to break [only spokes attached to the sheeve broke]. The third problem is not common, but I have seen it happen twice, the corner of the motor snapped off where the arm was attached. In both cases the automatic clutch bearing ramp locked on the bearing, froze the clutch onto the mounting bolt, and locked the rear wheel.
An easy fix for leaks at the cover compression cam is to install an "O" ring. I usually grind a small area around the cam where it contacts the cover on the inside, then install the "O" ring in the groove.

Hope this information helps,
Quenton
 

Egor

New Member
Jan 30, 2008
714
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0
Hurricane Utah
Quenton - That is the answer for everything I needed, Thank You. The most alarming portion is the bearing in the clutch not being able to take the pressure of the locked down position of the arm. I added some grease while apart, and I moved the nut to the filler side. If I have to keep the bolt slack to accommodate the belts I have large thin ss steel washers to aid in keeping the outfit straight with slack. I am considering telling the friend of mine that I will help him sell the bike, I like it but am not impressed with the design in the end. The brakes are very poor at best, I hate the belts. I love the look and the sound but am not ready to throw that much money at something I think is going to be problematic. Ill keep you posted it will be hard to send it back. Have fun, Dave

PS: Thanks for the tip on the O ring.
 

Egor

New Member
Jan 30, 2008
714
0
0
Hurricane Utah
I rode the bike around today with the arm still locked down, the belts still slip but if I am conservative I can keep it from squealing and wearing the thing out. I am at a loss for a good fix. Cog belts with small auxiliary rollers with springs to keep them snug! With a auto clutch you don't need a belt that slips that is for the hand clutch. I think that Whizzer could have fixed this by now, and with a remake of the two speed clutch it would make the bike a first rate ride. I am surprised to see the new Ambassador with no gears not even the old two speed remake, the bike looks nothing like the original so what would be the problem, it looks like a Occ Chopper with a Whizzer engine in it, and good brakes. Have fun, Dave
 

H20rider

New Member
Aug 27, 2008
18
0
0
I'm having difficulty with all the variables on the clutch adjustment. I have a WC-1 but just did a conversion to the NE-5. It's not quite up and running yet. Before I did this, the bike had little ability to move me except on flat ground with serious pedaling at the start. I suspect that the belts were slipping even then, though I never seriously investigated them.
Now, here are the issues I'm trying to balance.
1. Keeping the large belt tight when the clutch is out (not pulled).
2. Getting the engine oriented so the big plastic belt shield clears the back pulley.
3. Keeping the belt shield from being ribbed by the pedal cranks.
4. Although i don't have a spark plug to install yet (elusive little guys!), I am concerned that the plug its cable/connector will clear the arched lower crossbar. The plug angle looks like a problem. I guess I'll have to see when I have a plug to install.
So far, I've loosened the motor mounts and leveraged the engine to different positions, adjusted the position of the clutch cable bracket, and gotten as much as I can out of the rear wheel position. I keep ending up with a loose back belt or a severe rub on the belt shield...or some of both.
I can relieve the belt shield problem by dropping the clutch cable bracket to put some tension on the back pulley, thereby dropping it 1/4 to 1/2 inch. Essentially keeping the clutch partially pulled. This doesn't seem the ideal solution though. I suspect I'll lose some necessary clutch release potential.
I don't want to go shieldless since I value my inner thigh. I've read Motormike's instructions...but still stimied.


Ideas?
 
Guys, I don't adjust my belts like everyone else does, but I will gladly cover my method. To me the most important issue is to get the front belt tight first. I loosen the bottom nut, the rear top nut, and loosen the screws in the mounting bar bracket. I remove the rear belt from the sheeve. I move motor around until the front belt is the tightest, tighten the bottom nut, the front bar mount bracket, and snug the top rear nut. I install the rear belt, and move the rear wheel to make the rear belt as tight as possible without causing the pulley to move enought to loosen the front belt. If the rear wheel doesn't move to the rear far enought because of the chain being to short, add a half link kit to the chain. It is possible to loosen the top rear nut and wedge a piece of wood between the frame and the motor to push the top of the motor forward to help tighten the rear belt without effecting the front belt much. If the rear wheel hits the inside of the fender, then use a shorter rear belt. If the front belt is too long or stretched use a an AX27 belt on the front. The belt guard should fit OK. If you need more help you can call me on my cell phone [252-475-0406].

Have fun,
Quenton
 
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Egor

New Member
Jan 30, 2008
714
0
0
Hurricane Utah
Thanks Quinton. I have adjusted in the method you have described plus I have found that the arm on the auto clutch with the slot is finely helping. I have seen that some say that the arm needs to move, that it will ruin the bearing if left tight, I have mine snugged up and now the belts are behaving. My bike has no provision to be left loose to accommodate a hand clutch, there is no sleeve in the arm to take up the ware against the holding bolt. The slot allows you to loosen the bolt and the spring is supposed to pull the mess up and forward or to the rear or both. I help the movement by hand and then snug the bolt. I have added grease to the inner bearing and will keep an eye on the workings. I am not a fan of the auto clutch but it allows the engine to run up to the best HP and then pull the bike. If I were doing that with the hand clutch the belts would not last long. On the original Whizzer's I have ridden you just lug the engine to keep away from the belt slipping. Thanks for the help. Have fun, Dave
 

Weedylot

Angry Old Fart
Jun 12, 2008
453
1
0
Tucson Arizona
Re: whizzer clutch...check your nuts!

I was losing speed, but the engine was revving OK so I took a look at my 2000 Whizzer...and saw that a nut was missing from the bottom engine mount. The nut held the engine in place to maintain belt tension.
I used Motorbikemike's advice and after replacing the nut, adjusted the engine so the bike now pulls on hills instead of slowing down.
Now after going back and forth, I stopped at forth. The bike is pretty hard to pedal now with the increased drag from the belts.
So if I ever have to pedal it very far after (God forbid) engine failure I'll just cut the belts off and pedal freely home.
Any advice from the Whizzer gurus? :D