upgrading, TONS of advice needed.

Discussion in '4 Stroke Bicycle Engines & Kits' started by artmaker, Mar 29, 2017.

  1. artmaker

    artmaker Member

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    Ok, got this narrowed down to three. You guys take a look and tell me what the differences are.

    thatsdax.com (guy is not real complete with answers.
    The DAX f80 stage one (disorganized site, gotta just look for it.)
    This one seems expensive and I found very similar looking motors elsewhere.


    Ebay
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/222456768705?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

    And.. this one, (I actually like the black paint.)
    https://www.gasbike.net/collections...80cc-angle-fire-slant-head-bicycle-engine-kit

    Now I swear the actual motors all look the same to me. So what's the difference?
     
  2. ZipTie

    ZipTie Active Member

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    Its my opinion they are all the same as they all have (except the Gas bike engine) ask them but I believe this is non upgraded engine?) upgraded allen bolts
    all have the heavy duty studs and head bolts. They also all have 40mm balanced cranks and are very slightly ported I believe... I always paint my own after I hand file the outside cooling fins on the cylinder smooth and even.
    Plug or mask off all engine intake and exhaust holes and spark plug hole before filing fins smooth. Blow off the dust with an old paint brush. Mask off the headbolts Plus clutch arm if you don't want paint on those

    2 stroke Engine Painting TIPs:
    Do not sand the motor prior to painting as the casting pores hold paint on like a drum. I just prep with Clorox bleach wipes if there is any obvious grease or oil on the casting. Paint it whatever color you want using Rustolem for black or colors other than silver. For silver I use Krylon for color coat also. Then you wait one hour and spray a thin coat of Krylon clear on the entire engine and that Kylon gloss hardens the sticky Rustolem paint and makes a oil proof shine. All way better than the Factory paint job look.
    Rustolem has the best coverage but takes forever to dry and always stays sticky until the Krylon goes on and in 20 min its hard as a rock and never gets sticky even when the engine is hot.
    I've painted well over 30 engines with this exact method and they all look like new and are easy to keep clean.
    I then add bike matching engine decals, just my personal taste on that.
     
    #22 ZipTie, Apr 2, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2017
  3. ZipTie

    ZipTie Active Member

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    To clarify stud sizes... the regular engines have 6 mm mounting studs and head bolts vs upgraded to the 8mm
    or is it 8mm and upgraded is 10 mm...im too lazy right now to go look. LOL
     
  4. artmaker

    artmaker Member

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    So which engine is the strongest, fastest. Don't care about paint or bolts. Never had an issue with either. Just which one will last the longest and have the most power considering the size. (Also what is slant, and vs what exactly?)
     
  5. ZipTie

    ZipTie Active Member

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    The fastest and smoothest is either the Dax or the Zeda on ebay. The better bolts and studs are just a bonus I guess.
    The slant head just gives more room to squeeze it under a a mountain bike frame. its just the spark plug is at an angle is all vs a straight up plug, doesn't help with speed, just tight bike frames. 99 percent of all 2 strokes are angled at the plug. Id Get the engine below as he is 30 bucks cheaper and these are also the faster PK80 engine..!!!

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZEDA80-BICY...3db39da&pid=100623&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=222456768705
     
  6. ZipTie

    ZipTie Active Member

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    Just be warned on this one link the cylinder needs to be bolted on but I always pull mine off anyhow to inspect. I have 4 of these engines. Love em/
     
  7. artmaker

    artmaker Member

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    Dax's price is insane. So he's off the table.

    SO...
    Compair.

    Ebay 77 cc engine / 48 tooth rear sprocket and adapter kit /Standard NT carburetor


    Gasbike.net black stallion 66cc/80cc / 44Tooth, 9 Hole Chrome Sprocket / Improved NT Carburetor

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    So. What's the difference in CC?

    44 tooth vs 48? (I would think 48 is better.)

    Carb. What exactly is "improved?"
     
  8. ZipTie

    ZipTie Active Member

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    No engines are 80cc all are either 66 or 77cc Pk80. The extra 11cc is gained by the 40 mm stroke vs the 38 mm. No idea on the NT carb improvements, as they all look the same to me except they add a o ring to seal against air leaks on the intake manifold. A 10 cent improvement. Woweeee.
    If you have hills and are over 175 pounds the 48 is a good choice with more low end power for powering up inclines but like everything in life you give up a tiny bit of speed but 44 is fine also and a good compromise.

    Zip
     
  9. ZipTie

    ZipTie Active Member

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  10. artmaker

    artmaker Member

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    Ok, well dang. The more reading I do, the more I want a 4 stroke after all.
    Now…. JUST about to place the order for this one. (very helpful over the phone btw.)
    http://www.bicycle-engines.com/49cc-4G-T-Belt-Drive-Complete-Gas-Powered-Engine-Kit.html

    Problem I see right away is I know I'll need a wider pedal system. They have one but it doesn't look much wider at all. Thinking since these are easy to find I'd just wait until the motor is in, see exactly how much room I need. WIde crank sets start at about 29.00 but can go as high as 150.00. Insane.
    While searching for those I stumbled back onto gasbike.net site. Since I wasn't looking at their 4 strokes before, gave it another go.
    Now dang. THIS one I swear the actual motor looks the same. And both list specks but all different specks so I can't really compare.
    Here.
    https://www.gasbike.net/collections...-drive-kit-with-huasheng-49cc-4-stroke-engine

    NOTE this one COMES WITH wide petal arms.
    Well I think I should just call them too. Such a big price difference, worth the time.
     
  11. bluck

    bluck Active Member

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    Don't get the gasbike one, that transmission is trash go for bwlt driven transmissions instead. They are quieter and last longer, especially that grubee t belt, you can read up about it if you wish you'll find out the pros of belts over chain drive.
     
  12. curtisfox

    curtisfox Well-Known Member

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    Better yet get the Dax setup, even though it coast more. It is designed and made to correct the faults others have, and will b cheaper in the long run. And I believe the engine he has is straight shaft. If you have trouble with his site just call him ................Curt
     
  13. artmaker

    artmaker Member

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    Are you talking about his titan magnum 4 stroke? Dang it looks like the exact same size and shape. SO fitting won't be an issue.

    Ok, I just sent him another email. I do see differences between kits. (about the same price too.) I know that the one off bicycle-engines is made in China. however so far they have answered every question, even answered the phone right away. And my made in China 2 stroke sure lasted. They aren't all bad. BUT your right, if someone fixes all the known issues, it's worth it.
    (BTW gasbike never did call me back. They lost a sale.)

    It looks like Dax also includes the thing to widen the petals. (I have no clue if I can use that or how to install it. Pretty sure what I have now is a one piece. I might still need to buy that part.)
     
  14. curtisfox

    curtisfox Well-Known Member

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    Ya, you will need a 3 piece conversion, it changes it from one piece, so you can put the wide crank in. Best would be his belt drive trans, it is based on Qu- magic
     
  15. artmaker

    artmaker Member

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    ok, Dax it is. Ordered and paid for. I just hope he's up to a little hand holding while I attempt to install this. Between this forum and him, and MAYBE the mechanic I have across the street (I already warned him what I'm going to attempt. He said he'd help, but… he's never had a motorized bike. Still he's a mechanic right?)

    So…. can't wait.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I have a few questions for you bike pros though. Don't want to pester dax too much.

    So… my 2 stroke, I have a three speed shift lever attached to it so I can put the thing in neutral when I get to a big hill.
    Also I have the kill switch, sometimes I need the motor off and I'll just pedal. When I want it back on again, just pop it into gear and it starts up.


    Now with the 4 strokes, they all seem to say when your going at speed like down a hill, that the engine transmission will keep the motor from over speeding. Sort of a neutral I'm guessing???? Correct? It will do that by itself? If so that will be just dandy.

    Also… they are pull start. So if I kill the motor to say ride through a crowded spot, I would have to stop, get off, start the motor just to fire it up again?
    Or can I start it by pedaling like the 2 stroke as well as with the pull cord?
     
  16. bluck

    bluck Active Member

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    Going downhill it's like the engine isn't even ingaged it's the same as going downhill with the motor off so you will have to be careful to apply some breaking downhill if you end up going to fast. Downhill speeds are scary because braking isn't as effective. I usually turn the motor on while I'm riding the bike I can easily pull start it while pedaling so I'm pretty sure you might be able to do the same depending on engine position.
     
  17. artmaker

    artmaker Member

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    So you do have to pull it to start it back up then right?
    Only reason I ask, isn't so much for hills. But if I ride to a park, full of people, to some event say. I kill the motor completely. No one wants to hear it or breath exhaust. But when leaving, again I'll pedal until I'm away from the pack then start the motor. This will be a real pain if I have to stop, get off, pull…. Hope starting it up is easy.


    So.. got another question.
    With my 2 stroke, even if the motor is off. Pedaling that bike is nothing short of pedaling a tank! It's like even off I'm pushing gears around through the motor. There is a good deal of resistance ya know? LIke trying to pedal with the brakes on.
    Can I assume this is the case with ALL motorized bikes? OR is this something I can look forward to not having problems with anymore?
     
  18. bluck

    bluck Active Member

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    Yeah you have to pull start it again but like I said earlier you probably would be able to pull start it while on the bike without having to get off. I pull start it while I'm on the bike usually pedaling the bike to cross the street as a pedestrian and then while still pedaling I pull start the engine, it always takes me one pull.

    With 4 strokes you will have your legs wider which means a bit less efficient pedaling because you will not get full muscle engagement compared to pedaling with your legs closer together. With that being said I just went on 5 miles pedaling around bike trails with my girlfriend. I just built her a road bike for her birthday and I don't have any bikes for myself without a motor so I took my red 4 stroke bike (it's a 6 speed). I was always pedaling faster than her as we were cruising around. I feel I get less resistance with my 4G grubee transmission since it has a 12t freewheel and I can pedal easily. Even though it's wider I feel I can pedal anywhere even on some moderate hills because of my gears.

    In short I find it easier to pedal even though it's wider because I feel less resistance from the motor chain. I'm not sure how your transmission will feel as I've never used the Dax transmission but would like to hear a review and some pictures of it when you're done with the build.
     
  19. artmaker

    artmaker Member

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    Sounds good to me. Now I just got to get it all together and working.

    To be continued….
     

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