Thrust washer trouble and tolerances

[S5morinitrouble86]

I’m looking for parts for a Franco morini s5N bottom end the s5 engines all have the same bottom end to my understanding. I am trying to track down 5 thrust washers 15x22x0.4 I have some washers that came off of the engine prior to me taking it apart. What I’m not understanding is that 3 out of the 5 washers are convexed(beveled) the other 2 are not. And the engine diagram does not show which was the cup washers or thrust washers or beveled washer go. Also trying to locate the correct dimensions of the thrust washers had been next to impossible. Does any know where to locate these? Any help is appreciated

 

[fasteddy]

Welcome to the forum. I looked around and found a Facebook group for Franco Morini engines. If you haven't already joined this may help.

Steve.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjqi_T19vyCAxXNIjQIHboxBYEQFnoECBEQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F335972654107903%2F&usg=AOvVaw2j0-4Kf437vBe_p0Ui3RrO&opi=89978449

 

[S5morinitrouble86]

Yes I’ve joined but nothing personal but 40$ For shipping for a part that weighs as much as a square of toilet paper sent to the United States is rather VERY RIDICULOUS and sad especially for something that cost a 32nd th of the price they charge in the UK. Feel like I’m being robbed

 

[S5morinitrouble86]

Thank you though for your help though I do appreciate it. I think I’m gonna make my own in my living room and maybe make some myself and sell them for triple maybe I’ll get rich while die trying lol

 

[S5morinitrouble86]

I also spoke to a gentleman that was very knowledgeable about these bikes that sells Cobra Dirtbikes and parts. On the pollini lem husky Franco morini Facebook page. And he thought himself that these washers or thrust washers shouldn’t be a problem to fine. I’ve been in contact with big corporations through email in regards to these specific rare washers. Problem I have faced is that… A lot of these places or corporations that deal with bearings and washers do not have this specific size washer. With that being said I’ve contacted CNC and fabricators and machinist to see if I can have some made nobody is willing to just make five washers or even 20. They are wanting People to spend 300+ dollars just to have them fabricated. Very upsetting especially if I owned a vintage Harley Davidson or even a vintage Indian motorcycle. After searching often on for over a year I have finally been able to find one lousy washer that has the correct dimensions along with other parts that haven’t moved or haven’t been touched in over Approximately 20 years give or take. I really wish I did a lot more research upon buying this dirtbike for my child as a gift

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

belleville spring washers | McMaster-Carr if they don't have it you don't need it.

A light bulb just came on! Your convex washers are not washers but springs. Belleville Springs.
They are a common method of applying lateral tension.

Tom

 

[curtisfox]

https://www.google.com/search?q=15x...3NzUyajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 ..........Curt

 

[S5morinitrouble86]

belleville spring washers | McMaster-Carr if they don't have it you don't need it.

A light bulb just came on! Your convex washers are not washers but springs. Belleville Springs.
They are a common method of applying lateral tension.

Tom

 

[S5morinitrouble86]

I was told to make sure
Also it is very important that the centre bush in basket has very little or no play as this can cause a few problems.
1. It will force clutch bite on an angle resulting in shoe pins breaking.
2. Back of basket fouling on the primary cog. The question that we don’t understand is why and who would have used spring washers in place of thrust washers ? I could see how when that when the clutch winds up it flexes I’m wondering if and since this make and model engine is very hard to source parts out for im wondering if someone bought bellvele washers because they couldn’t get there hands on the flat thrust washers. Another question since the clutches can only be adjusted by buying tighter springs and not stacking washers is it a possibility that someone thought to use cup washers begin clutch basket to give it more speed or torque or for like a power band!?!? The engine calls for 15x22x0,4 McMaster Carr don’t have it I’ve spent days in the phone and spoke to someone in the UK that has dealt with this bikes multiple times and he said the tolerance is 0.5 mm anyway so he said to just buy same inner same outer just 0.1 difference in thickness. Question i have is why doesn’t anyone carry that size thrust washer I’m not the only one with this bike. But more or less the only one with this prob at this time. Reference #68 on the picture I posted of engine diagram.

 

[fasteddy]

I live in Canada. I'm all too familiar with the shipping costs. Ebay is one of the worst offenders follower by the big shipping companies. I just pay it if I need the part. By the time I find a work around I've spent more time and effort than the shipping costs. I'm dealing with an obsolete motor as well. A $20 head gasket cost me $50 Canadian landed here but then we are dealing with with a dollar difference as well. A U.S. dollar costs us almost $1.36 Canadian. An item worth $10 U.S. costs us $13.60 and then shipping is figured in Canadian dollars as well.

I hope you get everything worked out.

Steve.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Well we don't know your given name and I couldn't find you on the member map, so I will write in generality's.
Item 68 of the exploded schematic are shims, and just that.
In the not so good old days of pre CNC machining, if no play in a assembly was allowed you shimmed it to take up the slop in the assembly.
A photo of the convex washer would be nice.

Tom

 

[MEASURE TWICE]

Those various wavey shape washers thingies, reminded my coming across a scuba manual/power inflator that had compression fitting.

The washer as it got flattened out, would expand and supposed to grab the two pipe parts together.

It was a hot day in Los Angles, and the dive boat I was on had us waiting a while as other boats tied up to the mooring to scuba dive a hundred foot deep ship wreak.

I was going down the anchor line and at about 40ft the connection came apart from the power inflator on my drysuit I was wearing.

I did maybe what people should not do, that is continue and not abort the dive.

I gave an OK to my dive buddy and we did dive the wreak. The thing I was concerned about was did I loose the wavey shape washer.

It still was attached to one of the two pipe parts, as I got on board the boat with a couple of quarts of sea water in each of the legs on the drysuit.

The clamp fitting at the other end of this elbow shape pipe attaching to the drysuit, I swapped the different fittings to there prior respective places.

The increased angular stress, where the elbow pipe has entry to the suit, works better using a clamp fitting. I am not sure why compression fitting have there use as it comes apart easier than a clamp fitting.

I also was diving with a buoyancy compensator vest at the time as I always do, so I did not have to ditch weights to get to the surface. That drysuit and others I have used are not thin shell type material. The neoprene still helps keep you warm even when drysuit undergarments get soaking wet.

Interesting these similar kind of parts. I heard in tight spaces compression fitting can be slimmer and that is an advantage.

 

[S5morinitrouble86]

I live in Canada. I'm all too familiar with the shipping costs. Ebay is one of the worst offenders follower by the big shipping companies. I just pay it if I need the part. By the time I find a work around I've spent more time and effort than the shipping costs. I'm dealing with an obsolete motor as well. A $20 head gasket cost me $50 Canadian landed here but then we are dealing with with a dollar difference as well. A U.S. dollar costs us almost $1.36 Canadian. An item worth $10 U.S. costs us $13.60 and then shipping is figured in Canadian dollars as well.

I hope you get everything worked out.

Steve.

Yea I know right. I can’t seem to bring myself to spend 100$ on 5 thrust washers from the UK.

 

[S5morinitrouble86]

Well we don't know your given name and I couldn't find you on the member map, so I will write in generality's.
Item 68 of the exploded schematic are shims, and just that.
In the not so good old days of pre CNC machining, if no play in a assembly was allowed you shimmed it to take up the slop in the assembly.
A photo of the convex washer would be nice.

Tom

Sorry for not posting the convex washers but here you go. Btw thanks any advice helps.

 

[S5morinitrouble86]

Sorry for not posting the convex washers but here you go. Btw thanks any advice helps.

Here’s a couple photos hard to get the idea without actually looking at it but in one of these photos I’m putting two together so the look like a saucer

 

[S5morinitrouble86]

Here’s a couple photos hard to get the idea without actually looking at it but in one of these photos I’m putting two together so the look like a saucer

Here’s a couple photos hard to get the idea without actually looking at it but in one of these photos I’m putting two together so the look like a saucer

Here’s a couple photos hard to get the idea without actually looking at it but in one of these photos I’m putting two together so the look like a saucer

 

[S5morinitrouble86]

Welcome to the forum. I looked around and found a Facebook group for Franco Morini engines. If you haven't already joined this may help.

Steve.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjqi_T19vyCAxXNIjQIHboxBYEQFnoECBEQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F335972654107903%2F&usg=AOvVaw2j0-4Kf437vBe_p0Ui3RrO&opi=89978449

Hey Steve thank you sir I have already added and been on their page but thank you for your help.

 

[S5morinitrouble86]

OKAY stupid me I’m pretty sure I figured what someone before me has done instead of using 2 thrust washers that measure 22x15x0.4 they used one thrust washer that measures 0.8 thickness that sits behind clutch basket instead of 2 @0.4 which makes perfect sense. Then 1 inside clutch basket that is 0.4 in thickness. Now I’ve 2 more that I know where they go the only thing I’m wondering since I’m left with convex washers that measure the right thickness is I’m wondering if these convex washers would be okay to flatten or will they break? Although figuring this out. I still have 1 engine that has zero thrust washers. I was also told that I could get away with using 0.5 in thickness with same ID and same OD . And that anytime o rebuild this engine that I should purchase new thrust washers.

 

[fasteddy]

I understand how having to spend that money for what seems like nothing, hurts. I was heavily involved in antique cars years ago and when I first started hanging out with the fellas that really knew what they were doing I learned some sharp lessons. Probably the best one was when I was at an antique car parts flea market and I watched a buyer and a seller trying to get the better of the other.

The seller finally said to the would be buyer, I have it and you need it and here's the price and he held his hand out. The stare down lasted for a couple of minutes and the now buyer pulled out his wallet and handed the money over. The seller was correct and the buyer wasn't going to have a running car unless he paid the price.

Always glad to try and help. That is what this site has always been about. One helping the other. All the best with the search.

Steve.

 

[Tom from Rubicon]

Sorry for not posting the convex washers but here you go. Btw thanks any advice helps.

That is a Belleville.

Tom