This is why gas bicycles have no future

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle Videos' started by biknut, Sep 12, 2019.

  1. biknut

    biknut Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't be too wild about buying an electric car, or motorcycle right now, because I don't think battery technology is there yet. eBikes is a different story though. Battery's available today are adequate enough to give an electric bicycle parity to a gas bicycle for all practical purposes.
     
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  2. Tyler6357

    Tyler6357 Well-Known Member

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    That's not what I don't like about them. It's the cost and potential life span. Batteries are the most expensive part on an e bike, good ones can cost hundreds of dollars. However, batteries can be problematic, particularly if you don't ride the bike regularly. If you don't ride your bike for 8 months you might find a battery that can no longer hold a charge or one that drains quickly limiting range. Most batteries need to have power running through them regularly or they won't last. Battery cells can be very good or very bad, China is no better at making battery cells than they are at making anything else. Also, I worry about that the batteries would get stolen in under 5 seconds, like leaving a diamond ring on display for anyone to take.
     
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  3. zean

    zean Active Member

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    Excuse me. On Electrek I just saw an electric motorcycle run through a river completely submerged. It was impressive.
    Say, have you ever heard of a lithium titanate battery? I think they use them on electric cars and maybe even motorcycles and bicycles. I can't remember the advantage over the present lithium batteries: if it was quick charge time, extended range or increased charge cycles.
     
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  4. Tony01

    Tony01 Well-Known Member

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    Things of value cost money. The entire allure of motorized bike kits is that people think they can get something for nothing: a motor vehicle for $300. But as you know it results in something that breaks frequently. Just guesstimating the bike in your pic was at least $1000? For the same money, the ebike is a no-brainer for a commuter.
     
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  5. Tyler6357

    Tyler6357 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it cost me about $1100 and that's with some cheap parts that I got from craigslist sellers but it didn't have to cost that much, I put on some nice parts like the expansion pipe, silencer, reed valve, and mag wheels to name a few, but even with all that stuff and the frame and everything it was about $1100.However, a nice battery could cost that much alone, and like I said, it seems just like a very expensive part for someone with a simple pair of wire cutters to take it and simply put it in their pocket.
     
    #65 Tyler6357, Nov 20, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2019
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  6. Tyler6357

    Tyler6357 Well-Known Member

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    I want to make it clear that I have nothing against e bikes at all. I think they are great for some people. I have ridden one before but it wasn't a very good one, There is no doubt that they have some advantages as far as riding on bike paths and the ability to keep them light and portable. It's just not for me for several reasons besides what I have said already. I would say that the biggest reason is that I'm not really a commuter, I mean, I don't ride my bike everyday to work or anything like that. I use it for short trips or for longer pleasure rides but I have other vehicles and this is more of just a hobby for me not primary transportation. I enjoy messing around with my bikes and adding things just to see what effect it will have. Also, I like the motorcycle feel of a loud gas engine. They have made some great improvements to these little china girl engines since I first got into it years ago. I don't want to jinx myself but I have my bikes running pretty well, I seldom break down on the road anymore save a flat tire, knock on wood. However, not everyone is like me, I totally understand how e bikes can be an attractive option for many people. If you live in a large city with horrible traffic and no parking and your trips are short, and you use it almost every day, e bikes make good sense.
     
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  7. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Fortunately we don't have to choose one or the other or either we can own both or neither/ till the government decides for us. Both have merits & if you can only afford one select it and enjoy without continually justifying reasons why one is "more" superior & the other so inferior. I like both and will continue to build both based on my immediate build goals of looks, performance , use, costs and the most important metric what I want!

    I'd imagine most of us are really in this hobby to please ourselves and not convert others to our particular preferences. However I do enjoy an enthusiastic debate on most any topic and this one is no exception! This forum encouraged me to try electric power and three e-bikes later I'm grateful for that.

    By the way both of you are making good points about I.C.E and electric and again personal preferences and use. I too have multiple preferences concerning the two motor types, but I've got split opinions on 2 stroke vs. 4 strokes. I love them both for different reasons. Tyler my hybrid e-bike with GT-5 motor has close to 800 hrs. on the CG, original bottom end has never been touched and only one top end re-build, not needed at the time, but I switched from port timed to reed and converted the jug to 3 port and cut a piston window so put new parts in the top while I was at it. So I'm a fan of well built China girl motors and ride three of them, but I've also two bikes powered with 4 cycles. Like I said I like them all, build them all and ride them all.

    Still just having fun.

    Rick C.
     
    #67 indian22, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
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  8. biknut

    biknut Well-Known Member

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    I do have confidence better technology is right around the corner, and I'm looking forward to it.
     
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  9. biknut

    biknut Well-Known Member

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    The total cost over the life of the bike isn't much different now. You could even argue eBikes cost less if you include time spent making repairs, because eBikes typically don't need any, but a china girl pretty much requires constant work.

    Dependability is one huge advantage the hubby's enjoy.
     
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  10. Tony01

    Tony01 Well-Known Member

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    @Tyler6357 yep I get it 100%. I have been commuting on these bikes full time since around 2015-16. As far as theft, my bikes have always been too custom to steal. My battery with the cost and time put into building it is worth approx $700, but nobody is going to steal it. It is part of the bike and weighs 42lb.

    There are several benefits ebikes have over gassers.
    Here’s my top 3 in no particular order:
    1. Not a dude magnet (this is a big one!!)
    2. Not a cop magnet
    3. Reliable.

    One of my fav things about the silence, is if I see a pretty girl, I can pull right up and start a conversation. With a gas bike if you try this, the vibe dies the moment you kill the motor, and/or a loud exhaust may offend her. Sneaking up on people is loads of fun on electrics!!!
     
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  11. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Yes Tony I vaguely recall calculating the pretty girl effect of quite a lot of my actions in days gone by, but Old guys aren't much of a magnet for cops, dudes, chicks or anything else I can think of....maybe fly's. Sneaking up, and by, others though is priceless!

    Rick C.
     
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  12. Tony01

    Tony01 Well-Known Member

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    Haha Rick glad I was able to take you back for a moment.

    If not for the damn freewheel it would just be tire noise...
     
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  13. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Not much left to silence with a hub setup other than run track slicks.

    Rick C.
     
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  14. Tyler6357

    Tyler6357 Well-Known Member

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    Biknut, China girls don't require "constant work". Once you get the kinks worked out maintenance is minimal. I have 2 china girl bikes and haven't had to do anything to them in 1/2 year. As far as being cheaper in the long run? I doubt it very much. Like I said, if you take care of your battery, which is most of the cost of the bike, it might last longer but battery cells fail over time, there is no avoiding it.

    Tony...Been riding for over 10 years and never, not once, not a single time have I ever been stopped by a cop. I did register my bikes as mopeds and have license plates on them but even before I did that I would ride right by cops and they never even blinked an eye. But I think it depends on the city or town you live in, cops in my town have seen motorized bikes before and are tolerant of them, other cities, maybe not so much. Also, if a woman gets offended by the sound of a china girl engine, she ain't worth bangin! :)
     
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  15. Tyler6357

    Tyler6357 Well-Known Member

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    I've seen a few different types of set ups for the batteries. Some have a tube that the battery sits inside, maybe make a lock of some sort to protect the battery? I don't know, I live in a nice town but it's a beach city in So Cal. with tons of bikes of every type you can think of here, everyone rides bicycles, and there are tons of e bikes and e scooters everywhere too. I would really worry about the battery getting ripped off, not because this is a high crime city, it's not, but bikes are so popular, and kids will be kids and batteries are expensive and small, I mean, they don't have to take the whole bike, just the battery. Perhaps a quick unplug so you could take the battery with you, hmmmmmm, I guess carrying around a heavy battery would suck though. Maybe some kind of lock or mount that makes it difficult to remove, at least make it take some time. People around here know what a good battery is and they will spot them from 50 feet.
     
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  16. waynesdata

    waynesdata Active Member

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    @biknut When I first clicked on this expected something compliantly different. If battery energy density and price issues are resolved gas dies for cars trucks bikes and everything else.
     
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  17. indian22

    indian22 Well-Known Member

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    Guys electric implementation is relatively slow here in the U.S. & gas will continue to power the majority of vehicles for the foreseeable future. Electric infrastructure & standardization is necessary to support massive automotive changeover and seven year loan commitment won't and shouldn't be dumped and that seven years financial investment doubled is a minimum expectation for the U.S. on cars so fourteen years is a reasonable time frame for the changeover for general automotive.

    Asia and some European nations are perhaps a decade in front of the U.S. in actual utilization of electric transportation.... primarily using technology developed in the West. They aren't as restricted in these matters as we seem to be. We allow unrestricted theft of our intellectual property; while we can't seem to even take advantage of proven product success they are in production of using our concepts.

    E-bikes however can and do efficiently use existing electric infrastructure without any changes and new battery development is first being utilized in "small" battery applications bikes, wheel chairs, carts all benefit from laptops and phones going with new developments years before automotive in general can respond to and comply with DOT and other government acronym's regulations. Bike changeover in the U.S to electric is still miniscule compared to other parts of the world, but it's gaining momentum despite legislative interference. So much for governments concern about our and the planets health, safety and general well being. Tax, regulate and choke the life from riding clean and efficient transportation.

    I'm an Old guy and a Boomer so what do you expect? Being an optimist I'll enjoy riding noisy, dirty I.C.E.'s and e-bikes & not really bother with all the bother of what's going to happen in the world of transportation. It's going to be ok though it's good to know about the factors involved.

    Rick C.
     
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  18. biknut

    biknut Well-Known Member

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    China girls can be made reasonably dependable, but it depends how you ride them. If you keep the revs down below the vibration point, dependability can be decent. My problem is more than half the time I'm riding wfo. China girls have a short fuse when ridden like that. Vibration is the killer. eBikes don't have that problem.

    As far as battery life goes, you can expect 4 good years from your battery, and you could suffer through 5 years if necessary. A new battery restores performance to like new. A 5 year old china girl is practically nonexistent.

    My fatty has a 30ah 48v battery that cost $625 shipped. It's 4 years old. It's lost some capacity, but still in pretty good condition. I'll probably replace it in the next 6 months. If I replaced right now that's a cost of about $156 per year.
     
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  19. biknut

    biknut Well-Known Member

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    Back to my main point. If you like your gas bike, you can keep your gas bike. What I'm saying is after the superior quality's of eBikes becomes common knowledge, less and less people will want one.
     
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  20. Tony01

    Tony01 Well-Known Member

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    Building gas motorized bikes is borderline irrational. In the USA we have a good enough working economy to be able to avoid DIY/custom work. In places with economic deficits DIY is a requirement. Seems ridiculous to think that we could build something better than a full size manufacturer. Look at the result, motorized bikes are associated with junk. Hate to say it, as sexy as my builds have been they were junk too. Most days I just wish I had bought a little grom.

    My ebike custom frame is junk as well in the general scheme of things. At some point you have to realize, you’re not looking at the bike from the side when riding it. What you see and experience is the bars, the ride, top of the tank; you’re not visualizing how you look on it when riding. I could settle for putting more miles on a pro-built vehicle if it doesn’t have the lines of one of my schwinns. I could be happy with an ebike frame. It looks good enough and rides well enough. Not like I’m a good enough rider to tell the difference.

    E8C6AE86-96F4-4B51-9F96-9CADA433B607.jpeg
     
    #80 Tony01, Nov 23, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
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