Stripping the frame...

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silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
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I have several projects lined up for the winter and am busy at the moment stripping frames down to where they can be painted. I can finish the rest of the builds indoors and the paint is curing that much more through the winter. Over the past week I stripped, primed and gave a final coat to a Worksman paperboy and a 1950 straight bar Schwinn cruiser. On both of those bikes I uses a wire wheel mounted to a stationary motor and wire wheels on a couple of drills. On the worksman I started out using a drill with a sanding disc. Slow going. Today I worked on a 1939 Elgine which had been repainted along the way with a thick yellow paint of some kind. The good part is that it protected everything from rust... as the frame is perfect. The down side is that there's a lot of paint to remove. So, I am using Zip strip which is a kind of chemical solvent if you're not familiar with it. It seems to be doing the job, but of course is nasty stuff and I'll be at it again tomorrow, weather permitting. After the frame I have fenders, skirts etc. and considering each item has two sides, that's a lot of stripping. I don't have access to a sand blasting outfit and don't know that I would want to do that anyway of the 1940 Elgin fenders, fender skirts and chaingaurd which are rusty and will go on the 39 frame. I'd be afraid sandblasting would be rough enough to do damage where it is rusted.
So, my question is for any of you who have stripped a bike down and repainted it, what is your normal method for doing this? Any tips will be appreciated.
Silverbear
 

bairdco

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Aug 18, 2009
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i've used "klean-strip aircraft remover" before. you just brush it on, and the paint bubbles up, then you scrape it off. it's kinda nasty stuff, but it beats the wire wheel and all the dust.

it works great on old spray paint, but some factory paint finishes are pretty tough and i don't think it works at all on powder coating. it won't hurt the metal at all, because it becomes inactive after a little while. it'll mess up your skin, though...

they make a spray on kind that i haven't tried yet, but i'm gonna get some soon.
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
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The Worksman was much harder to strip than the old Schwinn. The Worksman isn't all that old so it likely had a powder coat paint job. Where do buy that aircraft stripper?
SB
 

Kevlarr

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Jul 22, 2009
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I've used an orange based stripper I picked up at Home Depot to remove enamel before, worked really well and you could actually hear the paint reacting, kind of like Rice Crispies. lol
Plan on using it to strip a frame soon.
 

BarelyAWake

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I dunno if ya'll have seen these before but if ya haven't ya outa give them a try - I love 'em.

They're called "sanding mops" and they're really great for curved and detail surfaces, I used them extensively for primarily woodworking restoration - I dunno what I woulda done w/o them working on fancy, ornate table legs etc. I imagine they would do quite well for finish work on these steel tube bike frames, they perform admirably well on inside corners such as the junction of two tubes for instance, they're perfect for detail stuff like brake levers etc. I'd use it after stripper to conserve materials, you could use a heavy grit and no stripper - but it would take longer and use more paper. With prep - I've had these last months of constant, daily use.



They can be somewhat expensive, but if you treat your tools right they last a very long time. It is also quite easy to make your own - just make sure to use a quality cloth-backed paper (like for a belt sander) and be sure to carefully cut all the flaps the same as to balance the tool at speed.

Here's a bit more info on it;
:: Stockroom Supply - The Sanding Mop

and a listing of suppliers;
6 SLIT SANDING MOP - Google Product Search


You maybe have seen them before, I dunno - but I've never seen them in use other than the commercial woodshops I've "done time" in so I figure I'd mention them.
 
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silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
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I dunno if ya'll have seen these before but if ya haven't ya outa give them a try - I love 'em.

They're called "sanding mops" and they're really great for curved and detail surfaces, I used them extensively for primarily woodworking restoration - I dunno what I woulda done w/o them working on fancy, ornate table legs etc. I imagine they would do quite well for finish work on these steel tube bike frames, they perform admirably well on inside corners such as the junction of two tubes for instance, they're perfect for detail stuff like brake levers etc. I'd use it after stripper to conserve materials, you could use a heavy grit and no stripper - but it would take longer and use more paper. With prep - I've had these last months of constant, daily use.



They can be somewhat expensive, but if you treat your tools right they last a very long time. It is also quite easy to make your own - just make sure to use a quality cloth-backed paper (like for a belt sander) and be sure to carefully cut all the flaps the same as to balance the tool at speed.

Here's a bit more info on it;
:: Stockroom Supply - The Sanding Mop

and a listing of suppliers;
6 SLIT SANDING MOP - Google Product Search


You maybe have seen them before, I dunno - but I've never seen them in use other than the commercial woodshops I've "done time" in so I figure I'd mention them.
No, I've never seen this before, but it is interesting and looks like it might be perfect for doing a bike... all the curves and hard to reach spots, more so with fenders and chain guards, old rear racks. It looks like just the thing. Yes, it's little pricey, but after a trip to Ace the other day for a wire wheel for the stationary motor and a couple others for the drill,,, that adds up, too. I watched the video demonstrations and one for the dremel would be good, too. I'll be on the lookout for a local supplier. Thanks for the tip!
SB
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
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some paint co. who do sandblasting may also do bead blasting which isnt so abrasive as the black beauty. here is a link Bead blasting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yes, I've read that the bead blasting is less abrasive. A few years ago I bought pancake air compressor (Chinese, of course), 3 hsp for filling tires, cleaning engine parts and that sort of thing. It doesn't have much of an air tank, so was marginal for painting. I had hopes that a simple sandblaster could be rigged up, bought a cheap one and confirmed that my compressor wasn't up to the job. I've also read that breathing the silica dust is really bad, so it is just as well. Out where I live there is no access to a sand or bead blasting outfit or I'd consider it if it was affordable. It sure would save a lot of time and effort and no doubt is a good option for somebody.
SB
 

BarelyAWake

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Tho it's true most small home air compressors can't handle the demand of sand/bead blasting I've found these to be invaluable for all sortsa detail work and they work well with a small compressor - provided yer using a finer grit and not expectin' to do a whole car at once lol;


Spot Sandblasters - Google Product Search

Be warned - while I've never had any real luck with your standard cheapo "bucket blaster" these are an effective alternative that also help a bit with the demand placed on a smaller compressor as it's a pressurized system, I've used this one extensively;


Portable Abrasive Blasters | Abrasive + Sand Blasters | Northern Tool + Equipment

Hope this could work out for ya, tho messy there's nothin' like sandblasting for cleaning rusty stuff! There is somewhat of a dance between adjusting grit/tip/pressure etc. but it's well worth it :D
 
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silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
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northeastern Minnesota
Tho it's true most small home air compressors can't handle the demand of sand/bead blasting I've found these to be invaluable for all sortsa detail work and they work well with a small compressor - provided yer using a finer grit and not expectin' to do a whole car at once lol;


Spot Sandblasters - Google Product Search

Be warned - while I've never had any real luck with your standard cheapo "bucket blaster" these are an effective alternative that also help a bit with the demand placed on a smaller compressor as it's a pressurized system, I've used this one extensively;


Portable Abrasive Blasters | Abrasive + Sand Blasters | Northern Tool + Equipment

Hope this could work out for ya, tho messy there's nothin' like sandblasting for cleaning rusty stuff! There is somewhat of a dance between adjusting grit/tip/pressure etc. but it's well worth it :D
That looks good and at $118.00 it is affordable. Do you use yours outdoors, no booth, good eye protection, respirator... can you describe how you use it? When I had hopes the one I got would work out, I had plans of using the above plus having a piece of safety glass between me and the work to look through. I would work outside, of course, since i have no indoors place for such work. I can surely see a place for this in a nice little workshop. Four or five of those mop sanders would pay for this sandblaster. Not bad. Do you reuse the sand at all? Do you use this just for rusty stuff or for stripping a whole bike. Would it be suitable for that?
SB
 

dmar836

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Jun 23, 2009
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BareltAwake and I had the same mental process. In the end, I built a cabinet and used the "bucket blaster" as the internal parts - works well but this is a controlled environment. I need to seal it better(they all leak) but there are times when I use it daily. You do need a large compressor for that. I finally stepped up to a 220V unit when my 5hp Craftsman died(the rolling compressors are not meant for serious hobby use). IMO, the hand held unit would clean tiny, lightly coated parts but nothing else - anything with the power to succeed will go through a lot of sand fast. Also, I bought one of those portable blasting units but you have to have the same compressor and use real blasting sand. Anything at the home improvement store will contain particles that will clog it. I have used mine once and I hated blowing expensive sifted sand all over the yard. My overall fix would be to rebuild my 2' X 4' cabinet to have a larger capacity for longer frames. BTW, buying a cheap cabinet might work but an adequate inner size doesn't mean it's useable size. A frame may fit but you will not be able to get to the corners, etc. Enter the custom cabinet of plywood.
Chemical strippers are great but won't do a powder coated job. For catalyzed paint, sometimes scoring the surface of the frame will give the stripper a head start. Also, wrap it in plastic while the stripper is working and add more stripper on top as it begins to dry. Scrape the loose stuff with a putty knife and add more or let it mostly dry then use a wire brush. After that, start with the coarse sandpaper - not on a wheel as it may gouge the frame where you aren't looking. I buy 1" or wider rolls of sandpaper so I can use it like a strap(for many metal projects). If it was easy - everyone would do it!
Good luck!
Dave
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dmar836

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You can reuse it but it needs to be sifted to get chunks out. You are likely to be disappointed if you don't have a big compressor.
If this is a one time job, you could mail the frames off to be blasted.
Dave
KC
 

BarelyAWake

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lol - nice :D

Well, I've used them "all of the above" depending on the project and my impatience heh Given the usage, you may wanna pick up just one mop sander and try it on detail work - the blasters while inexpensive do require a bit of initial setup and practice, I also guarantee you'll be buying a bigger compressor sooner or later heh

Ya defo want to use a respirator/dust mask, that I've learned the hard way. Eye protection is also a must and not just yer glasses as you'll ruin them in short order (backblast stings a lil and will pit plastic lenses), I like a full, clear face shield and a disposable dust mask with ear-muff style hearing protection. The muffs aren't needful because of noise (tho it is loud, particularly in a closet) - it's the dang grit in all the lil channels of my ears, drives me batty lol

You could use one of the hoods common when sand/bead blasting, I just don't like them as by their nature - they never fit right.

For your application - I would defo build a walk-in "closet" out of ply, line the floor and 1' up on the walls with plastic/tarp and you'll get a lot more use out of the sand by recycling it. You'll need sift it through a window screen to get rid of w/e crap you removed from the bike. I've not had much luck reusing beads - but yer after 'Black Beauty' medium/coarse sand for this anyway. It will work less well o'er repeated usages as the grit gets finer and nonuniform.

BTW - 'Black Beauty' isn't actually sand, it's industrial slag - much like obsidian shards, defo don't wanna get it all over the place (or in yer lungs), it'll KILL bearings quick lol I still prefer it over the very effective but insanely toxic "Aircraft Remover".

Insofar is spot blasting/whole bike - that depends entirely on you and your compressor. It's such a perfect finish (sanding "rolls over" shiny steel onto rust pits, blasting removes it entirely) that even with a lil compressor you may find yerself just waiting for pressure to build up again *shrug* I'd prolly strip what I can and blast the rest w/yer compressor.

It's very important to keep the blasting medium as dry as possible so a water/oil separator is needed for the air, but you prolly have that already for paint. With that in mind - if it's at all possible to section & seal off an area of your basement/garage I'd recommend it, it's nicer to work in anyway. Bright lights help a LOT lol

If you get the pressure tank style gimmie a shout. It's easy to set-up and use but they do have a personality and there are some things that are counter intuitive - you'll notice the "ball valve" lever(s) on the red unit above? One would be tempted to use them both to regulate pressure/sand flow - yet if you do that the sand will etch through the valve near the hand grip in very short order and you'll have a blow-out, yet the one under the tank (not there or can't see in the pic) can be safely used to regulate sand flow... to an extent. Speakin' of which you'll wanna grab 6 or more of the porcelain tips to start with, they're disposable and wear quickly. They come in various sizes and a good rule of thumb is use one size larger than recommended for that grit to reduce/eliminate clogging. You use more air - but get a LOT less frustrated.

None of that is in the instructions o_O

I'd recommend getting the little spot-blaster first and see how you like it, but if you do get the pressure system - don't sweat it if it doesn't seem to work right at first, it takes a lil practice and dialing in ;)

BTW - Blasting with a medium/fine is the only proper way to refinish corroded/painted aluminum as any other method will contaminate the surface to some extent - gotta be careful tho as you'll find it's quite easy to "reshape" aluminum with a sandblaster lol I hate-hate-HATE refinishing aluminum boats :(


edit: dmar836 - you posted while I was a-typin' heh, yeah yer right and I agree with most of what ya said, I have always used a quality sand so that was less of an issue. You can use the pressurized sys w/a small comp - it takes patience. I figure with even a 1/2 decent blaster like that - a good comp will be an inevitable (if later) purchase lol
 
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dmar836

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Jun 23, 2009
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I have the tank style sitting in the shed. What do you do again with the valves? I had no problems but used it only once. If I use it again, I'd like to make sure I'm getting the most out of it. If I recall, there was an air release valve at the bottom, an air inlet valve, an output valve(mixed), and the hand-held valve. Sorry to hijack!
BTW, I once used an outdoor trailer/Ford 4cyl-powered unit we rented at a body shop - to do a truck frame I think(many years ago). I do remember I wore a full suit and used two hands at all times. It was awesome.
Dave
KC
 

BarelyAWake

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Yea the "real" ones are crazy awesome! I'm a lil late on my lunchbreak - I'll get back to ya as soon as I can. Don't fear droppin' me a PM about it should I space lol
 

BarelyAWake

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edit: K I'm back :D

If yers is the same set up as the one I used the most, this is np - if yers is a lil different... well the theory and problems are the same anyway lol

The valve closest to the tank, directly underneath and is connected to the tank on one side and the heavy sand hose on the other can be used to help regulate the sand flow to an extent. Using it in this way will increase wear on the valve ball as the sand hits it on it's way by and you'll be more prone to tank clogs. Tank clogs are easy to deal with by just tapping it rhythmically with the side of your shoe as you work, but this only helps prevent clogging - you'll need to kick/thump it a bit if it does stuff up. I've found that picking up the tank about half a foot and dropping it works pretty well too lol

It's tempting to use the ball valve nearest the handle (the one you hold while working) to regulate as you work, unfortunately not only does this increase the likelihood of the more difficult to deal with hose clogs, it's moderately dangerous as the wear rate on that valve is exponentially more due to the increased velocity of the sand/air mix. The "ball" part of the valve will wear very quickly and the deflected sand will etch through the valve's housing and result in a blow-out. It's somewhat exciting, makes a fairly loud noise, and can leave you with a stinging welt not unlike road-rash. As tempting as it may be - don't use that valve to regulate and make sure to turn it to the completely on/completely off positions as quickly as possible to reduce wear.

The easiest way to deal with hose clogs is to simply shut down the valve closest to the tank, remove the valve closest to the handle and reopen the one closest to the tank - blowing out the hose and the pound or so of sand stuck in it, then shutting down again before you loose all of your sand.

Fortunately these valves are comparatively inexpensive, I think they run about five bucks or so. Periodic disassembly and inspection would be a good idea, "pipe tape" and whatnot is unnecessary, though they can last quite a while - they are disposable as nothing can withstand 'Black Beauty' for long lol.

It's actually much the same as finding the right fuel/air mix for our bikes. While with the sandblaster it isn't as needful - if you can find just the right combo of pressure/sand grit you'll find it far easier to work steadily and with fewer clogs. I suppose technically these valves weren't intended for this - yet after resurfacing any number of aluminum boats with that particular pressurized blaster, I've found these lil tweaks can really help.

A lil more rambling on;

Tip clogs: I keep a length of safety wire loosely clipped to the handle while I work, when the tip clogs shut off the valve under the tank and probe the tip with the wire. You can use the valve closest to the handle but I've found that one usually leaks just enough to maintain pressure behind the clog - preventing you from picking it clear.

Masking: Obviously masking tape alone won't withstand sandblasting at all. There are specialty products made for shielding parts and to make nice, crisp lines - but they're expensive, not easy to find in small hobbyist quantities, and quite hard to find (I'll look if yer interested). While masking for waterlines on those boats, I've found a layer of blue masking tape (known as three-day tape) with a layer of tin tape over it and another layer of blue masking over that works well enough.

It wont last long, but it does work well. The top layer of blue is your "warning" layer, it shows how much you've hit that area. The layer of tin tape is all that stops the sand, but the layer of blue under it all cushions the impact a bit, allows the tin tape to take a little more abuse and gives you a last second warning before you cut through. It's a cheap and effective method of masking crisp lines, it does take a bit of practice - I tend to do all my edging first with an inch or so of border - then I go on to finish the large areas.

I know it's obvious, but remember to not get this "sand" all over the place. We had a newbie blasting a boat here at the marina and he managed to get sand in a couple of other boats. Every bilge had to be cleaned spotless and every bilge pump replaced as a result. It's sure to destroy bike bearings in short order and it manages to get everywhere despite how hard you try to prevent it - a cabinet or closet is defo the best way to go ;)



o_O wow - that ended up to be quite the rant lol Sandblasting is awesome - but I've seen so many give up cause it's not as easy as it looks. The tool itself is finicky but with practice it's fine - the most common problem is damp sand. Even fresh from the store it tends to be just moist enough to cause problems - you need it dry as a bone to work easy.
 

silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
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Thanks for posting that. I can see that going this way is more involved than just paying for the equipment. It sounds like it could be a really good thing for a small, well set up shop with a blasting booth, but not something to be doing in your driveway in a casual manner. Since I don't even have a shed to work in at this time I can see this is not for me. Maybe someday it will be, but not now. That's a good thing to know. For me it will be a chemical stripper followed by wire brushing and when I find it I'll try the sanding mop. Excellent. Thank you.
SB
 

BarelyAWake

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lol np - and don't let me spook you, I'd defo give the hand held lil one a shot if your still interested, it's a far different story than the pressured system and although no less (or more) prone to clogging - it's really easy to use and fine for backyard/driveway.

While ya prolly don't want to do a whole bike w/it - it'd be great for hard to reach places and/or sharp edges that'd tear up the mop. It's also great for heavy rust on odd shapes - like racks or coat/skirt guards *shrug* It's a lil slow - but ya get almost perfect finishes and best yet its just about effortless lol

I like me some toys & hate sanding - can you tell? :D
 
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silverbear

The Boy Who Never Grew Up
Jul 9, 2009
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670
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northeastern Minnesota
lol np - and don't let me spook you, I'd defo give the hand held lil one a shot if your still interested, it's a far different story than the pressured system and although no less (or more) prone to clogging - it's really easy to use and fine for backyard/driveway.

While ya prolly don't want to do a whole bike w/it - it'd be great for hard to reach places and/or sharp edges that'd tear up the mop. It's also great for heavy rust on odd shapes - like racks or coat/skirt guards *shrug* It's a lil slow - but ya get almost perfect finishes and best yet its just about effortless lol

I like me some toys & hate sanding - can you tell? :D
At one time I had one of the hand held ones and didn't really have enough pressure in the little tank on my 3 hsp pancake compressor to make it work well, so gave that up. I imagine that if I had a larger air pressure tank it would work, don't you think? I'll keep it in mind. They're pretty cheap.
SB