Schwinn Point Beach FD Remake

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cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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Colonial Coast USA.
I posted the build of this bike I built for my wife a while back. She bailed on MB riding so figured I would do a different build with it, and rearrange what was there. Was impressed with Wayne Zs inframe build so it bears a great deal of resemblance to it. Mine is a single speed however and built in a vintage style. The drive is cantilevered off the engine mount so as not to burden the aluminum frame unduly. The shifter really is an engagement/disengagement lever for the roller. I can quickly totally disengage the roller for pedaling, or add or subtract down force as conditions demand. The drive is through a centrifugal clutch, so the bike will pull from stop with out pedaling. A spring loaded idler keeps belt tension constant as the roller is moved through its travel. The driven pulley is adjustable to vary the ratio if needed. Thats an HF 79cc mounted. I have a 99cc Preadator going in after the tear down for paint. Except for hardware and a few details its about ready to run.
 

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2door

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Sep 15, 2008
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Very nice build.
Congratulations on your success. I'm curious about the fuel tank. What is it from? How does the bike run? It certainly looks good. Thanks for sharing with us. I'm sorry your wife gave up on motorbiking. I built one for my wife that she never rode. I recently sold it to a neighbor to help finance my latest build.
Tom
 

cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
3,682
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Thanks for the reply and the positive comments. The tank is a Whizzer repro from ebay. The bike has not been run in its current build, but should be a good runner as it was run a good bit by me in its old configuation, with most of the same components. The roller size with the current gearing should yeild a top speed in the mid thirties. I like to cruise in the upper 20s, so it should be a comfortable ride rpm wise. I have pedaled it around a bit and am impressed with how well the Thick Bricks ride. It is very close to a maiden, I just need some specific hardware and a fuel tank fitting, and its time for a ride.
 

MEASURE TWICE

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Jul 13, 2010
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CB2... Very nice indeed!

With the gen rub on the rear tire side for front head lamp, does it have a battery for when at a stop and engine idle?

I would think it is already been mfr'ed or atleast someone has done it here. As an electronic tech I off hand right away would think a rechargable battery and and circuit regulated meant to charge the battery from the gen. The light tapping energy from the battery while at stop.

The other way hook another gen meant for a range of engine speed right at the crankshaft, but please keep a fake tire rub gen for looks!

The retro stuff but shining is just as good as the unpainted rusty!

Measure Twice
 

cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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Colonial Coast USA.
Thanks MT! I was thinking of adding a small gel cell 1.5ah battery I found at ACE. It is so small it can be hidden. Was wondering if a diode in the circut from gen to the battery would work so the battery would feed the light when the gen stopped. I had a bike with the gen running off the flywheel but the lights were very dim at idle because of the low idle of a 4 stroke, still was better than total darkness. I really wanted to make this bike into a well patinaed "survivor" type bike but just cant bring myself to rough up/rust up something. Too many years restoring stuff I guess. I would surely love to have a bike done up like the Hogthorne, but I would have to buy it that way. So this one will get fresh paint and a bunch of period vintage decals.
 

MEASURE TWICE

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CB, I have just looked over your reply. Please note right now after me being a light weight and having just found I can get Shlitz Beer with the retro Classic 1960's Formula, I can just reply in overview.

The diode would be in series between the generator and the battery so that when you’re at a stop and there is no current from the generator flowing, the battery does not charge the generator. Funny I said that, but I suspect you know that a generator would not like to get a charge.

A few more things are that the diode will probably have a forward voltage that will drop about 0.6 volts so that the generator has to put out enough to overcome both the 0.6 volts plus about 1 volt above the battery to allow for charging. If it were a 6 volt battery and 6 volt generator that would not do, it would have to be 6 + 0.6 + 1 = 7.6 volts output from the generator or higher.

Thinking of what could work is I’m remembering that they were 6 volt generators, so that two just using three of the high amperage hour AA rechargeable nickel metal hydride cells (like the Enercell 2500 mA) in series for nominal 1.2 times 3 = 3.6 volts could work in a scenario.

The diode also must have enough current capability for the job or it will burn out. This is where a current limiting resistor can be added also in series with diode so that just allows for a trickle charge of the battery and the diode is saved as well from over current as it does get the same current through it.

I’d have to look at the specs of the parts first before getting any of the parts to know it would all work out. I just thought that Nuts & Volts Magazine I have subscribed to or ARRL probably have a circuit worked out. I’ll check on that. But since I was going here is the rest in a pinch.

6 volts minus at most 1.25 top off volts times 3 = [6-(1.25*3)] = 6-3.75 = 2.25 volts 2.25 volts > 1.6 volts by 0.65 volts to spare.

With particulars not yet figured but can be done later for the components for the trickle charge circuit to the battery, using a handful of the real bright white leds would mean most likely the generator charging the battery would be enough never to have to take the batteries out and charge them with a home charger.

Though the huge bulbs if you could get them in a lower voltage so that they could work with the 6 volt tire rub gen in the above scenario would be fun to see operating full retro. Those dotted bulb surfaces for the light diffraction are such a charm, unlike the leds.

There is actually a way to overcome the problem if you really want the retro bulbs and the 6 volt gen and 6 volt or whatever came with the gen light set uses for bulb voltage that are too high to work.

This is a very small DC to DC converter that is about 15 or 20 dollars and is adjustable. If I remember right it took as small as like 3 volts and had a step up to as much as 20 volts with a little loss in current, but still efficient. It was rated at about 1 amp. No one could be the wiser why you had light output while idling!

Measure Twice
PS …. I’ll look to see what is already been done and get back to you
(^)
 

cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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Colonial Coast USA.
Thanks for the input MT. The generator is a 12v unit, as is the little battery I have spotted. I am no expert on electrical theory, but was trying to rig something like the alternator warning light in a car. I believe the light is put out when the alt. voltage exceeds the battery voltage. So is this possible? The diode would only allow the voltage out of the gen. When/if the gen voltage exceeded the battery it would power the lights, otherwise the flow is from the battery? The diode keeps the battery from flowing back into the gen. Maybe it needs two diodes, one keeping the flow from the gen out of the battery, and the other keeping the battery out of the gen. Dont really want to charge the battery, just use it as supplement. In theory a charged battery would last a long time if this would work.
 

MEASURE TWICE

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A slow charge when at speed made possible by limiting the current with a resistor is what is called a trickle charger. Having a greater voltage by a small amount is at least necessary to have the battery get charged. If the voltage is a lot more to a point, it really still does not matter as long as the current is limited by this part called a resistor. The ohm value of the resistor is chosen to limit the amount of current that flows.

Now what you said about having them separate altogether and no charging from the generator to the battery, that is a different story. I think it is a good way also.

I did a similar thing a while back with a getto blaster so that when in my car without a FM radio or cassette player installed in my car, I could use the car battery to run my getto blaster and turn off the connection to the internal D cells so as to save money on batteries.

I used a relay and when I plugged a cable to the cig lighter and to my getto blaster I had the D cells inside the getto blaster disconnected and the car battery supplying the getto blaster instead.

This was done by my connecting and disconnecting, not what you want done manually.

It can be automated and a special diode called a zener diode and a resistor. The zener diode is specifically different than a regular diode allows you to pick a voltage that you want to drop from a circuit. So where it all comes together is choosing a relay that will activate its coils and trip the relay to switch when the generator output is enough to give a respectable amount of current to run the head light and save the battery pack, like at 9 volts. There is just one thing additional that if the voltage on the generator does not go up to near the 12 volts as you said it does at slow speeds, but rather ramps up, you could possibly be going at a speed that the relay starts to try to close, but instead chatters.

Additional circuitry to eliminate that with an op amps configured as comparator with a degree of hysteresis (no middle) could be added. The op amp could use power from the battery to operate and the amount it uses is next to nothing.

I’ll look to be see what has been done on that kinda circuit. The library and many online educational places have a lot for free on this. One that always comes to mind is HowStuffWorks.com Take a look there, lots of stuff!

Measure Twice
 
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cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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Colonial Coast USA.
Thanks MT. I remember my old Triumph had a Zener in a heat sink under the head light. Would one of those work? So what happens if the gen can feed the battery and lights at the same time. If a diode was added so the battery voltage cant enter the gen and an on/off switch cut the battery to the lighting circut. If you cut the lights on the battery feeds them, but not the gen. If the gen voltage exceeds the battery voltage wont it begin to flow through the diode? This should happen when the battery begins to discharge from running the lights, no? Forgive my ignorance on the subject, I am very familar with wiring , but not theory.
 

wayne z

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Dec 5, 2010
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Hey CB, your new build is awesome! I like the design, simplicity and easy adjustment of your drive train too.
The 24" wheels and nice fat tires are perfect . Just right proportionaly, for that motorbike look and feel.


If you can change to 12 volt system, all you need is a mower or snowmobile regulator. I have experimented with them when I was building wind powered experimental aircraft generators. Works fine with smallish seald batteries(5ah is what I've used for years, smaller would prolly work.) They work universaly with ac input from lighting coils, or perm mag fan motors ect. Even tried a kiddecar motor with good results.

P.S. I realy like your clutch cover. What did you make that from. An air cleaner?
 
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cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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Colonial Coast USA.
Thanks for the comments Wayne. The clutch cover is an air filter I didnt use left over from a Sportster bobber build. Fitting it was pretty easy. I have some lawn mower charging coils off an electric start walk mower. I assume they are rectified in some manner as they went directly to the battery. This is an external mount to the flywheel using the magnet for the ignition coil, so would be easy to mount (probably) on a HF engine. Might give it a shot when I pull the bike down for paint. Hope to ride it today.
 

cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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Rode the bike this afternoon and have to say it is really cool! The sound of the exhaust reminds me of an old BSA side valve thumper I had. I can see that the pulley set in the 4" position is probably too low a ratio so will begin to change the pitch towards the 3.5" bottom a bit at a time. This thing rides like a Caddy on the Thick Bricks. Every thing worked as it should, but was having minor carb issues due to sitting I am sure. Will clean the carb tomorrow and open the main jet one size. It pulls easily from stop with no pedaling. With the auto clutch you would never think you are riding an FD except for the lack of drive line noise. Will put some miles on it before a tear down and paint and the Preadator install. I built this one to be an every day rider sharing duties with the old trusty Mongoose. Just figured I wanted something cool to ride in the vintage style. Style is on thing the old Goose lacks as it is pure function.
 

wayne z

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Dec 5, 2010
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It's definitly got style, and coolness! If your set-up works anything like mine, you ain't gonna want to ride the Mongoose so much .
It's gonna be your "everyday rider" cuz you gonna like the way it runs so much you won't want to use the others LOL. This type drive and engine set-up is very quiet, reliable,easy to operate and maintenance free. Feels and operates as good as anything factory made.

You realy built an awesome machine with lots of character.
 

NEAT TIMES

New Member
May 28, 2008
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Ben

aw-sum!! Looks as good as a whizzer !! The engines with the angled cyclinder`s fit so nice in frame`s when used in reverse rotation drives. They also look better in that position.

May have to go that route in my stretch cruiser. By the way, was expecting you to pop up with a new build!! Lol you just can`t help it!!

Thanks for sharing . I have extra 49cc sticker`s if you have need !! Ha ha

Ron ..cvlt1
 

MEASURE TWICE

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Jul 13, 2010
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I found on a preview only from Nuts & Volts as currently a non-member a Q&A area of a search on "Bicycle Generator" and since it was not a long article being in the Q&A area anyone as non-member can view all of it.

The Answer to #3083 March 2008, How can a functional, small generator with voltage regulation be built to operate on a bicycle........

Nuts and Volts - May 2008 generator&doc_id=-1#pg111


I found this, but know that the generator for bikes are usually AC alternators and although called generators would need to be rectified to DC to charge a battery.

Not all the fine details of building it are show in the answer, but a less sophisticated way of having it switch from generator to battery automated was mentioned. It was accomplished by using a length of wire that is in series with the light bulb to be wrapped around a steel nail and placed in close to a "normally open" reed switch that operates turning on the battery. The reed switch turns on the battery when you were slowing down as the alternator output lessens. The magnetism of the electromagnet crudely made with the steel nail let the reed close when it slowing.

If not having a rectified voltage to DC with a diode to keep the DC from the battery from going into the alternator and AC low volts at slowing speed from the alternator into the battery, I just though to have two bulbs.

Have the alternator with ac on one bulb and the battery with this nifty automated switch to turn on the second bulb run from a battery all together separately. The alternator bulb starts to dim as you slow down and before it goes out completely, the bright battery driven DC bulb comes on. The AC bulb from the alternator is also still slowly dimming till it is out and you have kept the circuits isolated from one another.

Thanks to Bob Kennet from writing back to NV to answer this and I embellished on it. Note Nuts & Volts does give disclaimer NO GAURENTEES on the upper left side of the page.

Measure Twice
 

cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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Thanks Wayne! It really does remind me of an early motorcycle. I had a friend that had an early teens English Sunbeam. I used to ride it a bit. The feel is real similar. Adding the springer stretched the wheel base a bit which is nice. The springer is actually only half of a Monarch style married to a MTB fork I like the curve in the fork a bit better than the straight leg Monarch. Now its just a matter of putting miles on it to work out any issues it might develop. The 79cc has good power for it. Cant wait to mount the Preadator. You made quite a contribution with the original inframe from which this build borrowed heavily.
 

cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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Colonial Coast USA.
Thanks for the kind comments NT! Just cant seem to quit building! This one at least was kind of a rebuild.

Thanks for the link MT will check it out. Never knew a bike gen was AC. Knew the lawnmower lighting coils were so I guess it makes sense. If two bulbs are used(good idea!) I could just add a micro switch on the throttle linkage so the battery bulb turns on at or just before idle when the gen is giving up. A ground type circut so the the light is switched on and the ground is made at idle. The battery should run quite a long time running the lights only when stopped.
 

cannonball2

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Oct 28, 2010
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Colonial Coast USA.
Started back on the build today. The 79cc HF on the bike was having carb issues, turned out to be ignition. Rather than fool with it figured Id go ahead and install the Preadator. Theres and old saying "change one thing change it all". The 99cc is a much different motor. Has a different head which put the plug almost into the frame, had to change the throttle cable bracket, shorten the plug wire, change to a shorter plug, and spent a good hour polishing away on the crank to get the clutch on. Strangley it has been posted here that the mounting spacing was different, mine bolted right up. Any way it was worth it, quite a bit of difference in the power of the 99cc. So after overcoming the mounting issues and and a few other details I spent the afternoon putting time on the bike. Its just a killer ride, so much more like a small motorcycle than a motorbike. Kinda reminds me of a Harley Hummer a friend had, a liesurely nice riding bike. Took a pic of the engine mount/drive set up while the engine was off. It is very simple and should work on almost any bike. Was made from one 48" piece of angle and a small scrap of flat iron. BTW the roller loves the Thick Brick, gets one heck of a bite.
 

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MEASURE TWICE

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I just remember this is just an engine swap, that the engine mount platform is already done. Is this a kit clamp on engine platform or did you make the clamp on, or is it your welded? It does look nice and sleek.

I welded a platform but fitting the engine meant that it sat tilted back and I made a few adapters on for making the carb level so the fuel bowl float would be level. I had a bit of a time with some redesigning my rear wheel clamp to spokes washing machine pulley drive so that I am getting back on track now finishing the build.

Measure Twice