stinkypete
New Member
hi, I'm new to this forum, my son's 50cc Morini engine has seized, managed to pull it apart but can't remove the clutch basket - I don't have a puller - can it be done without one? If so, how? cheers
removing clutch with no puller?
- Thread starter stinkypete
- Start date
Goat Herder
Gutter Rider
First it would be nice to see a picture of the clutch there are a few models out there. If it is one of these URL="http://www.morinifrancousa.com/engine2.htm"]Morini Franco USA[/URL Then I can help. Without a puller you are going to have to wiggle it off. That is how mine always came off. I have never used a puller. I have had mine apart a few times trying to tame a shift kit.
When you pry something like this at an angle it will always bind and not move. The magic is to go even of two opposite sides. Here is what I do. I have two slightly modified flat blade screw drivers. I get behind the bell and gently evenly pry it off. Once it starts moving it should just slide right off.
The three shoe clutch Grippa that I know of http://www.morinifrancousa.com/performance/clutchkit.jpg] is a real bugger to get out. If you pry on it wrong you will break the shoes off the clutch. Modified screw drivers do evenly away from the shoes. If you get a bad angle on it it takes nothing to ruin one of the shoes. I have done it.
A ho made puller involving a light slide hammer is what I am about to invent and will make it a breeze.
The model engine I am referring to it really does not take any brute force. My two clutches the two and three shoe, come off easy and readily when [key word] done evenly. This model motors clutch is not even on a tapered shaft it is on splines. The bell sits on a brass bushing it glides and is on a straight shaft.
When you get to a slight angle [not even] it will always fight you and bind.
From what I have learned on these clutches there are two different size washers that go behind the bell they can be done in any combination to achieve moderate play in the bell. Two much play and the washers will touch the gears and shear.
This video confuses folks because they think the model motor I am talking about needs a puller. I am re linking it because it tells about the washer play behind the bell and what happens. It happened to me.
YouTube - 50cc Morini Clutch Repair Part 1
YouTube - 50cc Morini Clutch Repair Part 2
Rough about here explains what happened to me.
Our grippa style clutch has no bolt hole for a puller ether. http://www.morinifrancousa.com/performance/clutchkit.jpg
Would not post grippa link above don't know why.
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Good timing on this thread...
From the photos, I have the 'Grippa Clutch'. I pulled off my side cover just yesterday to attempt a clutch adjustment. I went on-line and found the same video on clutch adjustment and watched it. The guy had a special puller to pull the hub off the tapered shaft. Figuring I too had a tapered shaft, i buttoned it back up and planned to find a puller.
However, looking at the picture of the 'grippa clutch' that was also attached, it is apparent that clutch had a splined hole, and no means to attach a puller. Normally, a splined shaft is not tapered, and if it is not tapered, I wonder if a puller is even needed. I'm thinking this one might just slide off the shaft.
Once off, I will begin the guess work of how tall to make the washer stack. As it is, my bike has so much clutch slip, even at very high RPM, as to be almost un-ridable. That on a brand new S6S motor...
Rich
From the photos, I have the 'Grippa Clutch'. I pulled off my side cover just yesterday to attempt a clutch adjustment. I went on-line and found the same video on clutch adjustment and watched it. The guy had a special puller to pull the hub off the tapered shaft. Figuring I too had a tapered shaft, i buttoned it back up and planned to find a puller.
However, looking at the picture of the 'grippa clutch' that was also attached, it is apparent that clutch had a splined hole, and no means to attach a puller. Normally, a splined shaft is not tapered, and if it is not tapered, I wonder if a puller is even needed. I'm thinking this one might just slide off the shaft.
Once off, I will begin the guess work of how tall to make the washer stack. As it is, my bike has so much clutch slip, even at very high RPM, as to be almost un-ridable. That on a brand new S6S motor...
Rich
Goat Herder
Gutter Rider
Goat Herder
Gutter Rider
Itchybird You might give it about 500 miles to settle in in this period of time the bevel washer stack gets better give to it to a point. Just a thought I am not totally familiar with the stock arrangement as I had tried something different.
No way I will put another 5 miles on the bike, let alone 500 miles, the way it is. The clucth NEVER completely hooks up, something is quite wrong with the stock setup and running around with a constantly slipping clutch will only invite more trouble.
I need to get it dialed properly before any more riding. I've got about 10 miles on the bike now, during one ride the clutch was giving a little bite and I could get a taste of some nice low RPM cruising, but pulling away from a stop requires very high revs, and very little engagement. Not a happy camper at this point.
On a lighter note, the motor runs great, I can tell with a dialed clutch this will be a nice package, but until that happens, rides will be quite limited.
Rich
I need to get it dialed properly before any more riding. I've got about 10 miles on the bike now, during one ride the clutch was giving a little bite and I could get a taste of some nice low RPM cruising, but pulling away from a stop requires very high revs, and very little engagement. Not a happy camper at this point.
On a lighter note, the motor runs great, I can tell with a dialed clutch this will be a nice package, but until that happens, rides will be quite limited.
Rich
Goat Herder
Gutter Rider
Man it would be so cool if all of us just posted the washer stack we used after we get our stuff right. Hint Hint.... //{ } { } etc....
Well, it was as I suspected, a splined hub -no puller required. Loosen the nut and she wiggles right off the end of the shaft with just my fingers. NOTE: The hub nut is reverse threads.
Once off, I made many adjustments and finally ended up wiht: {}{}{}{}{}/ total stack of 0.455". I made a total of four adjustments to get to this point. I removed two flat washers and one bellvue from the orig stack that came on the bike. With that many shims out, shoes have a little play off the hub. It seems wrong at first, but the ride confrims it is soooo right...
Amazing difference, the initial rides last night confirmed that I have transformed the bike and the clutch picks up nice and easy. I am going to shorten the stack one more time to see if I can fine tune it just a bit more. But now it is just finesse tuning.
And folks, it is dead simple, super easy. next time the cover comes off, I will take pictures and do a step by step.
Rich
Once off, I made many adjustments and finally ended up wiht: {}{}{}{}{}/ total stack of 0.455". I made a total of four adjustments to get to this point. I removed two flat washers and one bellvue from the orig stack that came on the bike. With that many shims out, shoes have a little play off the hub. It seems wrong at first, but the ride confrims it is soooo right...
Amazing difference, the initial rides last night confirmed that I have transformed the bike and the clutch picks up nice and easy. I am going to shorten the stack one more time to see if I can fine tune it just a bit more. But now it is just finesse tuning.
And folks, it is dead simple, super easy. next time the cover comes off, I will take pictures and do a step by step.
Rich
Goat Herder
Gutter Rider
The only other variable will be at what RPM's we are engaging at. I don't have a fancy tac.
I just kinda went seat of the butt method. I have a Fluke Lab Scope though.
Search Results
Welcome To Tiny-Tach. Small and economical tachometers for gas and diesel engines.
With my shifter set up I went with this ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) from a new clutch, and new washers. First gear with it is like being able to climb a tree though. This stack took about 400 miles to season in it began engaging earlier. To the point that the bike could be felt trying to roll at Idle. I have to physically hold the bike back just a bit. The bike was very minutely like that if at all when I started out on that stack.
I ran the 5.8 hp stock with the exception of a cust bevel stack three shoe clutch.
With this current clutch set up I was then married to the need of gears I took the power band out of the clutch so to speak. It was never perfect.. What I ran into was having to constantly down shift when ever I slowed down any at all. I always felt like and suspected I needed about two more horse power to pull my set up off. Also you have to have weight and inertia in the clutch to make it grip. However with it I was limited to the longevity of chains and the hub. So it was , is what it is. For what it was it worked well.
I am more apt at this point to go with a 9.4 hp single speed set up and set my stall higher. The kiss Principle.
5.8 hp @ MAX POWER WHEEL 4,00 KW (5,43 HP) at 8000 rpm
9.4 hp @ MAX POWER WHEEL 6,47 KW (8,8 HP) at 11000 rpm
I ran enough lock tight on my left hand threaded nut to form a tiny ridge at the clutch shaft purely coincidental. . My clutch kinda has to be pryed off that ridge. In other words don't forget the lock tight guy's.
I just kinda went seat of the butt method. I have a Fluke Lab Scope though.
Search Results
Welcome To Tiny-Tach. Small and economical tachometers for gas and diesel engines.
With my shifter set up I went with this ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) from a new clutch, and new washers. First gear with it is like being able to climb a tree though. This stack took about 400 miles to season in it began engaging earlier. To the point that the bike could be felt trying to roll at Idle. I have to physically hold the bike back just a bit. The bike was very minutely like that if at all when I started out on that stack.
I ran the 5.8 hp stock with the exception of a cust bevel stack three shoe clutch.
With this current clutch set up I was then married to the need of gears I took the power band out of the clutch so to speak. It was never perfect.. What I ran into was having to constantly down shift when ever I slowed down any at all. I always felt like and suspected I needed about two more horse power to pull my set up off. Also you have to have weight and inertia in the clutch to make it grip. However with it I was limited to the longevity of chains and the hub. So it was , is what it is. For what it was it worked well.
I am more apt at this point to go with a 9.4 hp single speed set up and set my stall higher. The kiss Principle.
5.8 hp @ MAX POWER WHEEL 4,00 KW (5,43 HP) at 8000 rpm
9.4 hp @ MAX POWER WHEEL 6,47 KW (8,8 HP) at 11000 rpm
I ran enough lock tight on my left hand threaded nut to form a tiny ridge at the clutch shaft purely coincidental. . My clutch kinda has to be pryed off that ridge. In other words don't forget the lock tight guy's.
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I'm purely seat of the pants as well, no tach. But when you're tuning by seat of pants, you're tuning by how you ride and thats the important thing.
It was dark when I finished up last night, but we're in for clear weather and I have a three day weekend planned, so I should get plenty of seat time. i'll post a quick update later.
Oh, and I always use lock tite, and I always clean off the old stuff before applying the new.
Rich
It was dark when I finished up last night, but we're in for clear weather and I have a three day weekend planned, so I should get plenty of seat time. i'll post a quick update later.
Oh, and I always use lock tite, and I always clean off the old stuff before applying the new.
Rich
Goat Herder
Gutter Rider
Thanks for the incite! It is just gonna help more folk's as the Morini gets more attention. Seams like there was very little documentation on it till this forum. I had to go through other posts to find this from Dean. The guy that got us on the forum into these and in hope of hopefully making this a good thread..
The Tame the Morini Clutch thread might be confusing for Folks? These Quotes came from that thread..
SCSW's rear disc brake rear hub. - Motorized Bicycle Engine Kit Forum
New Full Suspension SCSW BoXer! - Motorized Bicycle Engine Kit Forum
These were Dean replying back to my Questions a long time ago. I slept since then lol Hope it helps!
Sounds like you nailed it boss.
Until I get a 9.4 Morini and run it stock single speed. Well I just don't have that incite yet. I suspect you have to rework the washer stack about every 30 or 40 hours dunno? I ran my set up in and have left it so far. My gig was a R&D adventure.
Let us know how it works out? You have been very help full sir!!
Carry on my way word friend
and in hope of hopefully making this a good thread..The Tame the Morini Clutch thread might be confusing for Folks? These Quotes came from that thread..
SCSW's rear disc brake rear hub. - Motorized Bicycle Engine Kit Forum
New Full Suspension SCSW BoXer! - Motorized Bicycle Engine Kit Forum
These were Dean replying back to my Questions a long time ago. I slept since then lol Hope it helps!
Sounds like you nailed it boss.
Until I get a 9.4 Morini and run it stock single speed. Well I just don't have that incite yet. I suspect you have to rework the washer stack about every 30 or 40 hours dunno? I ran my set up in and have left it so far. My gig was a R&D adventure.Let us know how it works out? You have been very help full sir!!
Carry on my way word friend