Pulled Over in Grant Florida

motorbicycling.com is terrific. There's often all the appropriate info at the suggestions of my fingers. Thank you and maintain up the superior work!
 
I don't think it is such a bad thing to not having experience with how the court system works.. But from my experience if you tell the whole truth, your guilty, and when you lie through your teeth, they eject you from the building like they made a mistake!
.wee.
 
My court date is tommorow at 9 am. I am going with the its a bicycle defense and will let you know how it goes. Oh by the way, its "and including any device generally recognized as a bicycle" is what I plan on leading with.
 
Maybe I did not make it clear before so will try once more" I had been riding this bike for 5 yrs in Florida everyday to get back and forth to work and never had any issues till i moved to Pinellas park in 2010, then all of a sudden I get stopped minding my own business the first two times i was in the bike lane, the second being when i was told to get it on the sidewalk from a cop in the same PD how bizarre is that? the officer that told me to do this never got out of the cruiser, I`am sure that if the cop thought these Motorized bikes where motor vehicles she would not have told me to do this in the first place, so then a few months later i choose to go on the sidewalk for a few hundred feet to avoid being hit by traffic because of that fact there was NO bike Lane in this particular spot, I never used to ride on the sidewalk before but since a POLICE Woman told me to do it i thought i was o:k" so i get stopped by this third cop who writes me a ticket for driving a motor vehicle on the sidewalk and operating a motor vehicle without a license! so i decided to fight it since as we know the law regarding these is very vague using the argument that the DMV regards these as bicycles even after the kit is installed and since i have NO DUI on my record i figured i had a better chance of winning than some one who has a DUI? so the ticket for driving without a license carries a jail sentence allows me by law to take to a jury trial(a ticket for operating a motor vehicle on the side walk cannot be taken to a jury as it does NOT carry jail time) So if i win the case before a jury then the operating a mv on the side walk would become void , so we get it to trial and my main evidence being the letter from the DMV is not allowed by the judge even though it was notarized" the judge claims it is hearsay because it is not known who wrote it, then the judge instructs my lawyer he cannot ask the cop certain questions such as if there is a dash cam video, if so where is it? so i asked my lawyer to put me on the stand and i will bring it up as i am allowed to add comments that he cannot so what actually took place was and argument with the prosecutor and my lawyer how these gas bikes apply to section 316 so in short that is all the prosecution had along with the cops testimony , even though i personally brought up the statement from the DMV and mentioned it was very odd there was no video show the truth the state somehow pulled it off. I will agree i got screwed but it is irrelevant now, as a jury of 6 has voted on it" You need a drivers license ! these are considered to be Motor vehicles! Now the only thing we can do is try to change the law OR maybe a hot shot attorney who wants to make a name for him or herself and takes this issue to a higher court And i don`t see any here willing to do that? if there is i would be happy to help provide any info as possible to help but until then it is what it is!
 
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d_gizzle said:
You couldn't help yourself NOW you want help others?
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Sure At the very least I now have some knowledge of how the court system works which seems to be more than most on this forum! I did not have to post anything on this forum but i chose to share this experience with all of you so as to pass on the real facts regarding motorized bicycles and Florida law, the issue of dealers telling people lie`s just to make a sale has gone on for years, and it needs to be stopped or take responsibility for the lies. So if these posts have helped some decide to abide by the law and not end up in jail or paying fines than i think it`s all worth it It`s funny who someone like yourself can criticize and yet do nothing but complain when they don`t like the answer!
 
RonB said:
Maybe I did not make it clear before so will try once more" I had been riding this bike for 5 yrs in Florida everyday to get back and forth to work and never had any issues till i moved to Pinellas park in 2010, then all of a sudden I get stopped minding my own business the first two times i was in the bike lane, the second being when i was told to get it on the sidewalk from a cop in the same PD how bizarre is that? the officer that told me to do this never got out of the cruiser, I`am sure that if the cop though these Motorized bikes where motor vehicles she would not have told me to do this in the first place, so then a few months later i choose to go on the sidewalk for a few hundred feet to avoid being hit by traffic because of that fact there was NO bike Lane in this particular spot, I never used to ride on the sidewalk before but since a POLICE Woman told me to do it i thought i was o:k" so i get stopped by this third cop who writes me a ticket for driving a motor vehicle on the sidewalk and operating a motor vehicle without a license! so i decided to fight it since as we know the law regarding these is very vague using the argument that the DMV regards these as bicycles even after the kit is installed and since i have NO DUI on my record i figured i had a better chance of winning than some one who has a DUI? so the ticket for driving without a license carries a jail sentence allows me by law to take to a jury trial(a ticket for operating a motor vehicle on the side walk cannot be taken to a jury as it does NOT carry jail time) So if i win the case before a jury then the operating a mv on the side walk would become void , so we get it to trial and my main evidence being the letter from the DMV is not allowed by the judge even though it was notarized" the judge claims it is hearsay because it is not known who wrote it, then the judge instructs my lawyer he cannot ask the cop certain questions such as if there is a dash cam video, if so where is it? so i asked my lawyer to put me on the stand and i will bring it up as i am allowed to add comments that he cannot so what actually took place was and argument with the prosecutor and my lawyer how these gas bikes apply to section 316 so in short that is all the prosecution had along with the cops testimony , even though i personally brought up the statement from the DMV and mentioned it was very odd there was no video show the truth the state somehow pulled it off. I will agree i got screwed but it is irrelevant now, as a jury of 6 has voted on it" You need a drivers license ! these are considered to be Motor vehicles! Now the only thing we can do is try to change the law OR maybe a hot shot attorney who wants to make a name for him or herself and takes this issue to a higher court And i don`t see any here willing to do that? if there is i would be happy to help provide any info as possible to help but until then it is what it is!
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What proof did the prosecutor present to the jury to prove your motor bicycle was a motor vehicle?
 
biknut said:
The prosecutor would have sited a spicific statute. I'd really like to know which one it was.
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Seems to me the prosecutor relied solely on the definition of motorvehicle..mainly the part that says any self propelled...

However that same definition excludes all bicycles and mopeds. So if a moped isnt a motorvehicle how can a motorized bicycle be one?
 
As a person who lived in Florida for 28 years I will say this cover your six, be respectful, and follow all the rules of the road. My Uncle was the director of the Highway Patrol in Florida for a long time and now works for the F.D.L.E. he said that the state considers them to be Bicycles that is all. Just because one Jury said one thing that does not make it law.
 
And that's what everyone has been telling him BigD. But because he's been to court ONE time he now knows everything. He probably won't respond to what you said but he will make sure to call me a thick headed idiot for mine. HIGH-larious!
 
bigdbeach said:
As a person who lived in Florida for 28 years I will say this cover your six, be respectful, and follow all the rules of the road. My Uncle was the director of the Highway Patrol in Florida for a long time and now works for the F.D.L.E. he said that the state considers them to be Bicycles that is all. Just because one Jury said one thing that does not make it law.
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The burden is on the prosecutor to prove beyond a reasonable doubt a guilty verdict during a jury trial and I`am sure almost everyone with any type of charge that carries a jail sentence would rather have a jury decide as opposed to one single judge who will likely side with the courts and prosecutors. so in this case the prosecutor pulled it off" If anyone cannot win this case with a jury then what? No your right! the jury does not make the laws but they do decide whether or not it has prevailed ! so basically if one does not acknowledge the decision who will you acknowledge?
 
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biknut said:
What proof did the prosecutor present to the jury to prove your motor bicycle was a motor vehicle?
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Basically they used the argument that since it was not electric and used gasoline that it must be a motor vehicle! and yet they pulled of a guilty verdict, I personally made statements to jury when i was on the stand that these are considered bicycles even after the gas kit is installed according to the DMV but was objected to by the prosecutor and the judge asked these comments to be stricken from the record.
 
that blows! According to the statutes for 2012 a moped is any vehicle that has pedals and a motor yada yada yada. But because they are using bicycle components they are considered bicycles yada yada yada. They are not motorvehicles. Mopeds are not considered motorvehicles and they have engines and pedals. you got screwed and I feel for you. The law was never concerned with right and wrong, simply a vehicle for taxation of law abiding citizens.
 
I am concerned that because these are non criminal offenses, 2nd degree misdemeanors that I wont get a jury trial just a hearing before the judge.
 
Actually it depends on what Title in the statutes you're looking at..
I forgot which ones they are, but one title says a moped isn't a motor vehicle for Titling (that's why you don't need a title for a moped) and the other Title is under Driver Licensing which DOES state a moped IS a motor vehicle.
That's the difference.
Oh and when the officer told Ron to get on the sidewalk, that doesn't necessarily mean to get on the sidewalk with the motor running...
Also, Ron originally stated he was about to pull into his driveway and now he states that he was just going on the sidewalk where there was no bike lane for a bit, before continuing on the road..
So at this juncture, in his story, he admits he was riding on the sidewalk with the motor running, and was probably actually "driving" it and not just "coasting".
 
(27) “Motor vehicle” means any self-propelled vehicle, including a motor vehicle combination, not operated upon rails or guideway, excluding vehicles moved solely by human power, motorized wheelchairs, and motorized bicycles as defined in s. 316.003.

This is the definition I found, I guess I wont bring this up then. lol. I will stick with the other definition.
 
picklefish said:
(27) “Motor vehicle” means any self-propelled vehicle, including a motor vehicle combination, not operated upon rails or guideway, excluding vehicles moved solely by human power, motorized wheelchairs, and motorized bicycles as defined in s. 316.003.

This is the definition I found, I guess I wont bring this up then. lol. I will stick with the other definition.
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Also realize, that the actual term "bicycle" is not used in that definition, so even if they try to bring up that particular statute, I don't know if it would apply.
And even if they did.. The term, "Motorized Bicycle" IS defined in that 316.003 statute to INCLUDE "any device generally recognized as a bicycle" and according to the FLHMVS TL-10 document, it IS "generally recog..."
 
well my thought would be to argue the point of what is "self propelled"? My bicycle requires human power to operate the engine and "self propelled" vehicles such as cars and motorcycles do not. They turn on with a key and electric starter and go, hence self propelled.

Then to go the what is a bicycle route with the supporting documentation you guys have provided. including the TL-10 document.
 
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