New 48cc Skyhawk No Start

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Brent436

New Member
Feb 14, 2010
55
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Massachusetts
Back again guys,

Sorry i havent been on in a while, havnt really had time to work on the motor.

Thatsdax, i am getting spark I have already checked it several times. I just got my new NGK B5HS plugs in and have put one in. I tried starting it and it is even closer to starting than the champion plug i had in it. It was running for maybe 3 seconds but once I disengaged the clutch it died almost right away. It is firing a lot and like i said in an earlier post, the cylinder and exhaust are actually getting warm because its firing so much. Its on the brink of starting.

I took out my carb jet and theres nothing blocking the flow of fuel. I took a few pictures.

Any more help would be appreciated. Thanks

-Brent
 

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stv1jzgte

New Member
Feb 11, 2009
489
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australia
Back again guys,

Sorry i havent been on in a while, havnt really had time to work on the motor.

Thatsdax, i am getting spark I have already checked it several times. I just got my new NGK B5HS plugs in and have put one in. I tried starting it and it is even closer to starting than the champion plug i had in it. It was running for maybe 3 seconds but once I disengaged the clutch it died almost right away. It is firing a lot and like i said in an earlier post, the cylinder and exhaust are actually getting warm because its firing so much. Its on the brink of starting.

I took out my carb jet and theres nothing blocking the flow of fuel. I took a few pictures.

Any more help would be appreciated. Thanks

-Brent
Have you checked the float needle seat this is the first place it will block up, also what does the plug look like?
 

Brent436

New Member
Feb 14, 2010
55
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Massachusetts
The first plug (stock) which is the one where I actually had it running (even though it was real rough) was a little dirty but there wasnt enough of anything on it to tell anything from the color, it was still almost sompletely shiny. The second plug (champion E3) would pop a lot, and when I pulled it, it was completely shiny with no residue at all. I just installed a new NGK B5HS plug and havnt taken it out yet as ive only had about 15 minutes to try and start it with that plug. Im peddeling down hill going approx. 12-15mph with the motor turning over. It pops like crazy now, and i thought i had it running for MAYBE 3-4 seconds but it just died again. It's definitely getting spark as ive checked by grounding the plug to the outside of the motor and looking. Also, the exhaust is getting really warm after i try starting it so it is firing, but not starting or running. When i get time i will check the plug and try starting it again.

I'm not sure what the needle seat is, but if its the needle that has the c-clip on it then its clean as is everything around it.

Thanks for the help. It is really appreciated.

-Brent
 

stv1jzgte

New Member
Feb 11, 2009
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australia
Well this is a puzzle, i think the fact that it pops at all would say you have spark so really its just down to fuel or a lack of it.
checking the plug condition is really the only gauge as to whats going on in there.

In the third pic you posted you see the brass horse shoe thing if you remove its locating pin the float needle and seat is under it, or above depending on how you look at it, make sure that tube is clean and clear.

Are you still running the petcock filter? (hilarious name) thats the thing fuel tap thingy there is a filter behind that and the tank, i think its there? unscrew the petcock from the tank, that can get blocked from stuff in the tank best to ditch that filter and use an inline filter between the petcock and the carby.

Also not sure if you did it but the inlet manifold gasket has a really small hole did you make that bigger to match the port. that could maybe cause a prob.

Silly 1 but happens to all of us at 1 point, have you got the choke lever in the right position? down is off up is on.

Killswitch? ahh i dont wanna go there, double check your wiring?
 

Brent436

New Member
Feb 14, 2010
55
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Massachusetts
I am still running the petcock filter. I checked it when i drained and remixed the gas and it wasnt dirty or clogged. I'm not sure how fast the fuel is supposed to come down that tube after the filter but it wasnt going too fast. When i was draining the tank the fuel was coming down in a slow, but steady stream. What inline filter would you recommend if i got rid of the petcock filter? I'm pretty sure i would want a metal mesh one as ive heard the paper grabs the 2 stroke oil.

As for the carb, im no expert, but from what ive seen its put together right. I put it back together the same way i took it apart after the adjustments (c-clip notch and float height adjustment). the carb plunger isnt sticking at all and has full range of motion. How should the nut at the top of the carb be? I know it adjusts the throttle cable, but how do you recommend it be set?

Ive tried starting it in all choke positions. It pops the most at about 1/4 to 1/2 choke with just BARELY touching the throttle.

At first i had the killswitch connected. i thought that may have been the problem but when i disconnected it, it wasnt popping any different or any closer to starting.

I havnt touched the intake manifold gasket yet but I'll sure take a look at it now that youve suggested it. Once i get another chance to try and start it I'll pull the plug out and take a picture for you guys to see what it looks like.

Again, THANK YOU for all the help!!! I know at this point I'm probably starting to be a pain in the butt case, but thank you for being patient and thank you for all your help.

-Brent
 
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BarelyAWake

New Member
Jul 21, 2009
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Maine
Brent - I've had... ongoing fuel starvation issues with my Schwinn, part of the reason is the angle at which the carb is at not allowing the float a full range of motion.

Yet usually that doesn't matter so much as I've bent the float tabs and took 1/16" off the tip of the primer pin (as the carb is canted slightly w/the pin on the low side), it only starves at extended (very) high RPM & WOT now, prolly just as well as any longer spent in that range and I'd blow it up lol

Still, as I've had 2 different carbs on it (both stock but one old and the other new style), 3 different petcocks (seals keep dissolving w/the new "gas"), half a dozen filters, and two different tanks (first developed a leak). This may sound excessive - but I've well over 4000mi of relentless abuse on it now so some maintenance is to be expected heh

As my build is persnickety, I've very little room and the carb has to be "just so" I tend to remove and discard the in-tank screen and run without a filter at all to determine if the carb itself is set properly, then install the filter (in-line metal mesh). This eliminates the "guesswork" and I've found that sometimes an old petcock was the culprit, sometimes it's the filter - even new it seems some are more restrictive than others, I had one new one that was more restrictive than the (lightly) used one I was attempting to replace.

Last but not least - I found the newer style stock carb problematic as the secondary petcock on it's side was not only restrictive (the passages very tiny) but the small O-rings quickly turned to goo, while your ride is still too new to be suffering from the ethanol effect yet, if you've the newer style stock carb - you may wish to bypass that second petcock in your attempts to diagnose.

Sadly, I've no idea if your suffering starvation issues, actually I'm not sure you are as it'd still start and run till it was out of fuel in the float bowl - but I thought I'd share my... trials in an attempt to help ;)
 
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stv1jzgte

New Member
Feb 11, 2009
489
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australia
The only thing thats a pain in the butt is the fact we cannot figure it out yet, but we or you will.


both paper and steel!
Carburetor, Fuel & Air
have only used the paper never had a problem i keep em on for about 2 months then replace, though i ride everyday.
Any flow is good but if i undo the fuel line from my carb the fuel will be a steady stream to the ground, not drips.
Set the carb Nut by adjustng nearly all the free play out then tighten the nut down. remove the air filter and check that the throttle slide goes all the way up and down to where ever your idle screw is set.
With the killswitch try it without, wire black to black and blue/green to blue/green and tape up the white wires exposed end.
 

bairdco

a guy who makes cool bikes
Aug 18, 2009
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living the dream in southern california
i'd go back to the beginning, and start with the basics.

you know you've got spark. make sure it's dry and gapped at .025-.030.

you say the plug was wet so you have fuel. undo the fuel line at the carb and turn on the petcock and make sure fuel's coming out.

hook the fuel line back up, turn on the petcock, and see if your carb fills up. undo the float bowl drain screw on the outside and see if fuel trickles out.

if so, fuel's good. if not, fuel's clogging.

with the air filter off, look into the throat of the carb, twist your throttle, and make sure the slide raises up all the way. also, make sure when you start twisting it, that the slide moves at all. if not, adjust the barrel that the cable goes into at the cap on top of the carb till it does.

now, screw the idle adjust out 3.5 turns. look back inside the carb and screw it in some more to make sure it's raising the slide a tiny bit. then unscrew slowly till it doesn't lower anymore. ideally, you want to find the spot where the slide just starts to move up.

assuming fuel and carb's all good, check your wiring. i don't know which colors you have, but someone here does, i'm sure. make sure all connections are tight. i'd leave the kill switch disconnected and taped up so it doesn't short out until you get it running. also, make sure your plug wire is screwed into the CDI box all the way. it looks sealed, but it's actually just twisted onto a screw inside the box. twist it clockwise to make sure it's tight. don't overdo it. also, make sure it fits tight on the plug itself. with the stock wire, you know you have to unscrew the little nipple off the plug, right? should be just threads on the end of the plug.

so we have spark, fuel, and wires.

it's clutch time.

push your bike forward without pulling the clutch lever and make sure the wheel skids. now pull the lever, and make sure it doesn't. it's more or less that simple. if the wheel moves without pulling in the lever, you need to adjust the cable looser.

the basics are now covered.

pull the choke lever up, push the tickler a couple of times, pull in the clutch and pedal away. dump the lever, don't just let it out, and keep pedaling, and give it some throttle. if it doesn't start the first time, try again. and again.

if it kinda starts, then dies, try half choke.

if it's still trying, screw the idle adjustment in another half a turn, this'll give it more throttle.

when you're starting it, always keep pedaling. my bike sometimes takes 15 feet of hard pedaling, and sometimes starts with a nudge

now, if it starts, pull the clutch lever in and keep revving the throttle. if it's revving really high, unscrew the idle adjuster a little till it sounds good.

if it's still revving high, your throttle cable's too tight.

(edit) if it starts, remember you don't have a kill switch. hit the brakes and dump the clutch to kill it.)

if none of this works for you, send it back.
 
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Brent436

New Member
Feb 14, 2010
55
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0
Massachusetts
IT RUNS!!!!... well kinda. But it starts real easy now. I feel like a complete idiot because one of the things wrong was an adjustment i made. Somewhere along the way I decided it would be a good idea to set the idle screw from being tightened all the way in and counting the turns out from there (this is total sarcasm since I know that this is completely opposite of what im supposed to do). For some reason along the way among all the adjustments i had been doing, i got mixed up on how to set the idle screw haha. The other thing wrong with it was the throttle cable came adjusted all the way out, so i never checked that adjustment and it had the carb at almost WOT all the time. I cannot believe i overlooked these simple things.

Right now the motor will easily start but will not stay running. Im going to mess with the idle screw and maybe the throttle cable adjustment. If you guys could give some recommendations as to what i should set everything at that would be absolutely awesome. Im real excited that the motor is showing signs of life and i cant wait to get it running well enough to ride!

THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR HELP!!!

-Brent
 

bairdco

a guy who makes cool bikes
Aug 18, 2009
6,537
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living the dream in southern california
the idle screw should be adjusted like that. turn it all the way, then back it out 3.5 to 4 complete turns. or do like i said and watch the slide from the air filter side till it moves.

as for the throttle cable, do the same. watch the slide as you twist the throttle. you just want a tiny bit of play to start with as you turn the throttle before it moves up.

leave the barrel adjuster on top of the carb loose, and when you get it started, first try the idle screw, screw it either way to try to get it to idle. if not, screw the throttle adjuster up and down. it's pretty simple once you figure it out.

oh, and the choke. usually i only need it on for 10 or 15 seconds. if you can keep the bike running long enough to warm it up, move the lever all the way down so it's off. you don't want the choke on at all when you're adjusting it.

and, congrats...
 

Brent436

New Member
Feb 14, 2010
55
0
0
Massachusetts
Ok, so it will start but it wont usually run for more than 2-3 seconds. ive tried every combination of carb adjustments that i can figre out. ive moved the c-clip multiple times and keep trying to adjust the idle screw each time i start it. I also tried moving the throttle adjuster. I have also tried different choke settings. It will start right up but it wont stay running. everything in the carb is clean. I've also tried playing with the tickler button to try and keep it running. I've also taken out the petcock filter and it didnt change anything. Any suggestions to keep it running would be greatly appreciated.

-Brent
 

Brent436

New Member
Feb 14, 2010
55
0
0
Massachusetts
I finally got it running right!

I took the carb completely apart and made sure everything was clean. After that it had the same problem. I pulled the spark plug out and checked for spark and there was still spark. I closed the gap just a little bit, checked for spark, put it back in the motor, turned it over, and it started right up! I adjusted the idle screw to get it running smoothly and adjusted the throttle cable to take the slack out and it runs and drives now.

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP!!!!

-Brent
 

Brent436

New Member
Feb 14, 2010
55
0
0
Massachusetts
So overall i think my problems were:
-Crappy stock spark plug (Fixed by getting NGK N5HS)
-Leaking between carb and intake manifold (Fixed by sealing with clear silicone RTV)
-Misadjusted carb (Adjusted carb needle and float)
-Closed spark plug gap on NGK N5HS plug

I just wanted to post what my problems were so anyone else that had problems similar to mine could possible make reference to my problems and hopefully find a solution.

Again thank you all for all of your help!

-Brent
 

Brent436

New Member
Feb 14, 2010
55
0
0
Massachusetts
Yes, I am very satisfied and am feeling that I am finally getting my moneys worth. I've already made multiple short trips around town with it to help break in the motor. It has plenty of power to get up hills (pretty steep around here) and really just cruises right along pretty smoothly.

This has to be the best forum site i have ever seen as everyone is very friendly and helpful. I will continue to look around the forum to see what everyone else is up to, and to maybe even help someone who is in the position i was just a few nights ago. I know that if I ever have anymore problems with my bike, I will definitely be coming here for help.


Again thank you everyone for your help,

-Brent
 

wooom

New Member
Apr 8, 2010
1
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0
sydney
Yes, I am very satisfied and am feeling that I am finally getting my moneys worth. I've already made multiple short trips around town with it to help break in the motor. It has plenty of power to get up hills (pretty steep around here) and really just cruises right along pretty smoothly.

This has to be the best forum site i have ever seen as everyone is very friendly and helpful. I will continue to look around the forum to see what everyone else is up to, and to maybe even help someone who is in the position i was just a few nights ago. I know that if I ever have anymore problems with my bike, I will definitely be coming here for help.


Again thank you everyone for your help,

-Brent
I wish I could say the same dude,