well in a nutshell,have over 30 builds now.13 years been motor bicycling.just about done everything on these machines, just last week registered insured inspection passed liscensed,i think the first bicycle in canada.
mark from victoria bc hello!
- Thread starter beast775
- Start date
I know this is a really dead thread and further to that it's my first post, but, I'm hoping Mark from Victoria still exists, because I'm also in Victoria, BC and have some questions!
Who did the motor vehicle inspection (location)? Who is your insurance provider or do you go to ICBC directly. Is your bike classified as a moped (low speed motorcycle)?
I'm currently in progress on my first build here and hope to have my bike meet all standards of the Motor Vehicle Act and pass inspection to be registered an LSM in BC as well. Any help would be most appreciated!
Who did the motor vehicle inspection (location)? Who is your insurance provider or do you go to ICBC directly. Is your bike classified as a moped (low speed motorcycle)?
I'm currently in progress on my first build here and hope to have my bike meet all standards of the Motor Vehicle Act and pass inspection to be registered an LSM in BC as well. Any help would be most appreciated!
Check the I.C.B.C. web site and then call I.C.B.C. in Victoria. It will save you the money you'll need to buy an electic motor and battery. I suggest Justin at ebikes.ca
Steve
Steve
hello praxist.im not riding that bike anymore,liscensing kinda took the fun out of blasting around on a motoredbike so off the registration went.i have alot of paperwork showing some critical info on statutes or acts.
i see people buzzin around all the time not registered.but if you want it that way its alot of work,they even have a new category under insurance for these types of vehicles.i never even got pulled over on my registered bike,and i was trying trust me.ha good luck and pm me your number and we can talk if youd like.
i see people buzzin around all the time not registered.but if you want it that way its alot of work,they even have a new category under insurance for these types of vehicles.i never even got pulled over on my registered bike,and i was trying trust me.ha good luck and pm me your number and we can talk if youd like.
Yes, I was wondering the same thing. I went through it with I.C.B.C. for the better part of a week with the help of my insurance company and they said not a chance.
Steve.
Steve.
it can be done,i kept the paperwork but would take me quite a bit to get it.and it doesnt interest me really.it was listed as a norco bicycle special,iirc.but it cost me 8.99 a mnth at the time.i was a mechanic at a shop at the time of inspection so that helped greatly.
thanks for all the replies guys. I wouldn't think to waste my time with ICBC from the get go, a good friend of mine is an insurance adjuster for them and he also advised against trying to get help from them. It's their mandate to shut this kind of stuff down, not help it get going. But be darn sure that if I can pass an inspection, they will happily take my money to insure it! 
I'm not 100% sure if this is what Mark is talking about, but my adjuster friend said when the time comes to get homebuilt vehicle insurance which can apply both to autos and motorcycles of all kinds, including LSMs (low speed motorcycle).
My initial plan is to ensure I meet all criteria in the motor vehicle act first before trying to get an inspection and insurance. Another fellow I know in Nelson built, had inspected, registered and insured a homebuilt three wheeled car by following the tenets of the Motor Vehicle Act and then pursing the process from there.
I too have seen them buzzing around town here and there and even see them on craigslist periodically for exorbitant amounts of money (really? 950 bucks for your 1988 canadian tire mountain bike with a HuaSheng kit on it? good luck!)
I even helped a guy put one together a few years ago and he rode the galloping goose every day for a year before he was pulled over by the cops. Even then, they didn't impound his bike, he pulled out the spark plug and gave it to them and they let him pedal it away with a ticket. I know they aren't that big of a heat score here, but I'd love to be able to legally cruise down Oak Bay ave and stop into Ottavio for an espresso while jaws drop around me.
I'm not 100% sure if this is what Mark is talking about, but my adjuster friend said when the time comes to get homebuilt vehicle insurance which can apply both to autos and motorcycles of all kinds, including LSMs (low speed motorcycle). My initial plan is to ensure I meet all criteria in the motor vehicle act first before trying to get an inspection and insurance. Another fellow I know in Nelson built, had inspected, registered and insured a homebuilt three wheeled car by following the tenets of the Motor Vehicle Act and then pursing the process from there.
I too have seen them buzzing around town here and there and even see them on craigslist periodically for exorbitant amounts of money (really? 950 bucks for your 1988 canadian tire mountain bike with a HuaSheng kit on it? good luck!)
I even helped a guy put one together a few years ago and he rode the galloping goose every day for a year before he was pulled over by the cops. Even then, they didn't impound his bike, he pulled out the spark plug and gave it to them and they let him pedal it away with a ticket. I know they aren't that big of a heat score here, but I'd love to be able to legally cruise down Oak Bay ave and stop into Ottavio for an espresso while jaws drop around me.
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I scanned through ICBC's site not long ago, and haven't found much that would apply directly to us (yet). The one that caught my eye most was related to stopping distance, 10m (29.5') from 30 kph (18mph). I have a couple of marks painted in the lane behind the house to tune brakes now.
The three times I've passed officers (out of vehicle at the roadside) I've ridden past at low rpm, smiled and waved, and they smiled and waved back. I try not to be too crazy when there's definately police in the area.
The three times I've passed officers (out of vehicle at the roadside) I've ridden past at low rpm, smiled and waved, and they smiled and waved back. I try not to be too crazy when there's definately police in the area.
Ottawa has it on their web site if you want to look but if your frame doesn't have a serial number plate placed there by a maker recognized by the government it can't be registered.
You can apply for a vin # to be assigned to your bike but when they see a bike frame you probably be turned down.
No registering of a bicycle with a internal combustion motor since the frame isn't made to withstand the forces of the engine. That's what I was told.
The chap that owns Blow By You Motor Bikes, Terry Blow lives here in Surrey and after getting a bike built to meet all the requirements that were needed to pass he was turned down because it was a bicycle frame.
Wish you all the best but after you have spent your money you will be buying an electric motor to be legal.
Steve.
You can apply for a vin # to be assigned to your bike but when they see a bike frame you probably be turned down.
No registering of a bicycle with a internal combustion motor since the frame isn't made to withstand the forces of the engine. That's what I was told.
The chap that owns Blow By You Motor Bikes, Terry Blow lives here in Surrey and after getting a bike built to meet all the requirements that were needed to pass he was turned down because it was a bicycle frame.
Wish you all the best but after you have spent your money you will be buying an electric motor to be legal.
Steve.
Praxist,
You may want to talk to I.C.B.C. since they had a major hand in offering advice to Ottawa when the laws were being drawn up.
Steve.
You may want to talk to I.C.B.C. since they had a major hand in offering advice to Ottawa when the laws were being drawn up.
Steve.
The ICBC and Ford Motor Company raised questions regarding the use of power sources other than an electric motor. Ford pointed out that the proposed definition excluded solar-powered methods of propulsion and low-emission combustion engines. The ICBC wondered whether the amendment would allow the use of hybrid systems that combine an electric motor with a combustion engine. The final definition was clarified to eliminate all ambiguity. An important goal of this amendment is to provide a safe, viable, and non-polluting alternative to conventional means of transportation. This alternative means must also perform on a level comparable to that of the average cyclist using a conventional bicycle. A bicycle equipped with an electric motor meets these conditions. Bicycles equipped with a combustion engine are subject to the requirements governing limited-speed motorcycles or motorcycles. The Department will consider amending the definition when other pollution-free power sources become available, at which time it will analyze the impact of such new power sources on the safety of riders and the public.
This is part of the impact study to see what motor assisted bicycle should have.
Steve.
This is part of the impact study to see what motor assisted bicycle should have.
Steve.
Here is the text of subsection 2(1) of the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations
Quote:
Vol. 135, No. 8 — April 11, 2001
Registration
SOR/2001-117 29 March, 2001
MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY ACT
Regulations Amending the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (Power-assisted Bicycles)
P.C. 2001-483 29 March, 2001
Whereas, pursuant to subsection 11(3) of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act(see footnote a) a copy of the proposed Regulations Amending the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (Power-assisted Bicycles), substantially in the annexed form, was published in the Canada Gazette, Part I, on November 20, 1999, and a reasonable opportunity was thereby afforded to interested persons to make representations to the Minister of Transport with respect to the proposed Regulations;
Therefore, Her Excellency the Governor General in Council, on the recommendation of the Minister of Transport, pursuant to section 5(see footnote b) and subsection 11(1) of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act(see footnote c) hereby makes the annexed Regulations Amending the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (Power-assisted Bicycles).
REGULATIONS AMENDING THE MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY REGULATIONS (POWER-ASSISTED BICYCLES)
AMENDMENTS
1. (1) The portion of the definition "motorcycle"(see footnote 1) in subsection 2(1) of the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations(see footnote 2) before paragraph (a) is replaced by the following:
"motorcycle" means a vehicle, other than a power-assisted bicycle, a restricted-use motorcycle, a low-speed vehicle, a passenger car, a truck, a multipurpose passenger vehicle, a competition vehicle or a vehicle imported temporarily for special purposes, that:
(2) The portion of the definition "restricted-use motorcycle"(see footnote 3) in subsection 2(1) of the Regulations before paragraph (a) is replaced by the following:
"restricted-use motorcycle" means a vehicle, excluding a power-assisted bicycle, a competition vehicle and a vehicle imported temporarily for special purposes, but including an all-terrain vehicle designed primarily for recreational use, that:
(3) Subsection 2(1) of the Regulations is amended by adding the following in alphabetical order:
"power-assisted bicycle" means a vehicle that:
(a) has steering handlebars and is equipped with pedals,
(b) is designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground,
(c ) is capable of being propelled by muscular power,
(d) has an electric motor only, which has the following characteristics, namely:
(i) it has a continuous power output rating, measured at the shaft of the motor, of 500 W or less,
(ii) if it is engaged by the use of muscular power, power assistance immediately ceases when the muscular power ceases,
(iii) if it is engaged by the use of an accelerator controller, power assistance immediately ceases when the brakes are applied, and
(iv) it is incapable of providing further assistance when the bicycle attains a speed of 32 km/h on level ground,
(e) bears a label that is permanently affixed by the manufacturer and appears in a conspicuous location stating, in both official languages, that the vehicle is a power-assisted bicycle as defined in this subsection, and
(f) has one of the following safety features,
(i) an enabling mechanism to turn the electric motor on and off that is separate from the accelerator controller and fitted in such a manner that it is operable by the driver, or
(ii) a mechanism that prevents the motor from being engaged before the bicycle attains a speed of 3 km/h. (bicyclette assistée)
COMING INTO FORCE
2. These Regulations come into force on the day on which they are registered.
These is the federal laws. I don't have dog in this fight but if the past lives up to the future, with enough motorized bicycles zipping around someone with some clout is going to look up the laws and there will be a tsunami of police crack downs and fines that boggles everyones mind.
I'd really hate to see it happen to anyone here.
Steve
Quote:
Vol. 135, No. 8 — April 11, 2001
Registration
SOR/2001-117 29 March, 2001
MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY ACT
Regulations Amending the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (Power-assisted Bicycles)
P.C. 2001-483 29 March, 2001
Whereas, pursuant to subsection 11(3) of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act(see footnote a) a copy of the proposed Regulations Amending the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (Power-assisted Bicycles), substantially in the annexed form, was published in the Canada Gazette, Part I, on November 20, 1999, and a reasonable opportunity was thereby afforded to interested persons to make representations to the Minister of Transport with respect to the proposed Regulations;
Therefore, Her Excellency the Governor General in Council, on the recommendation of the Minister of Transport, pursuant to section 5(see footnote b) and subsection 11(1) of the Motor Vehicle Safety Act(see footnote c) hereby makes the annexed Regulations Amending the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations (Power-assisted Bicycles).
REGULATIONS AMENDING THE MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY REGULATIONS (POWER-ASSISTED BICYCLES)
AMENDMENTS
1. (1) The portion of the definition "motorcycle"(see footnote 1) in subsection 2(1) of the Motor Vehicle Safety Regulations(see footnote 2) before paragraph (a) is replaced by the following:
"motorcycle" means a vehicle, other than a power-assisted bicycle, a restricted-use motorcycle, a low-speed vehicle, a passenger car, a truck, a multipurpose passenger vehicle, a competition vehicle or a vehicle imported temporarily for special purposes, that:
(2) The portion of the definition "restricted-use motorcycle"(see footnote 3) in subsection 2(1) of the Regulations before paragraph (a) is replaced by the following:
"restricted-use motorcycle" means a vehicle, excluding a power-assisted bicycle, a competition vehicle and a vehicle imported temporarily for special purposes, but including an all-terrain vehicle designed primarily for recreational use, that:
(3) Subsection 2(1) of the Regulations is amended by adding the following in alphabetical order:
"power-assisted bicycle" means a vehicle that:
(a) has steering handlebars and is equipped with pedals,
(b) is designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground,
(c ) is capable of being propelled by muscular power,
(d) has an electric motor only, which has the following characteristics, namely:
(i) it has a continuous power output rating, measured at the shaft of the motor, of 500 W or less,
(ii) if it is engaged by the use of muscular power, power assistance immediately ceases when the muscular power ceases,
(iii) if it is engaged by the use of an accelerator controller, power assistance immediately ceases when the brakes are applied, and
(iv) it is incapable of providing further assistance when the bicycle attains a speed of 32 km/h on level ground,
(e) bears a label that is permanently affixed by the manufacturer and appears in a conspicuous location stating, in both official languages, that the vehicle is a power-assisted bicycle as defined in this subsection, and
(f) has one of the following safety features,
(i) an enabling mechanism to turn the electric motor on and off that is separate from the accelerator controller and fitted in such a manner that it is operable by the driver, or
(ii) a mechanism that prevents the motor from being engaged before the bicycle attains a speed of 3 km/h. (bicyclette assistée)
COMING INTO FORCE
2. These Regulations come into force on the day on which they are registered.
These is the federal laws. I don't have dog in this fight but if the past lives up to the future, with enough motorized bicycles zipping around someone with some clout is going to look up the laws and there will be a tsunami of police crack downs and fines that boggles everyones mind.
I'd really hate to see it happen to anyone here.
Steve
Thanks Steve for that info. I have to ask though and mean no disrespect, but do you have any references for what you're talking about? Which laws are you referring to and in which jurisdiction? MVA laws are provincial not federal. What amendment was drawn up and to which act? Nothing related to gas motorized bikes is in the BC MVA from my cursory reviews. Nothing that specifically permits or disallows. The final definition you refer to below is a definition of what exactly, applying to which specific jurisdictions and implemented by which governmental body? I don't mean to challenge, but there are several grey areas in the info you mention above. "Ottawa" may have it on their website, but who is Ottawa? Feds? Which department? Any citations, references or links to websites would be awesome. Even if you can locate which legislation or from which jurisdiction I can sick my lawyer on it to clarify for me. (She's on retainer, don't ask!)
Regarding the plate you refer to, my wife's uncle builds ambulances and other emergency vehicles, including complete frame off, one offs with off the shelf engines and other parts, and his manufacturing stamp is recognized simply by virtue of the fact that he owns a registered business. He's had many government contracts over the years and there are a great many emergency response vehicles rolling around BC that bear his stamp. A close friend of mine builds custom motorcycles and his manufacturing plates and serial numbers are similarly created.
The other thing that might affect what I'm doing is that I have no intention of trying to create a "bicycle" I'm trying to create what will legally be recognized as a motorcycle. I have more questions than answers now at any rate! I'm just going to build it and see what may come, but any references or links would be greatly appreciated!
Regarding the plate you refer to, my wife's uncle builds ambulances and other emergency vehicles, including complete frame off, one offs with off the shelf engines and other parts, and his manufacturing stamp is recognized simply by virtue of the fact that he owns a registered business. He's had many government contracts over the years and there are a great many emergency response vehicles rolling around BC that bear his stamp. A close friend of mine builds custom motorcycles and his manufacturing plates and serial numbers are similarly created.
The other thing that might affect what I'm doing is that I have no intention of trying to create a "bicycle" I'm trying to create what will legally be recognized as a motorcycle. I have more questions than answers now at any rate! I'm just going to build it and see what may come, but any references or links would be greatly appreciated!
Praxist,
Absolutely no offence taken at all.
The feds in Ottawa draw up the government vehicle safety guidelines that your wifes uncle and your friend build their vehicles to match. As you say they are registered with the government and are required to meet certain standards.
The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Act tells the car makers what safety standards they have to build into their cars and when. What and where it goes on the vehicle to make the vehicle match the government standards. They also set emissions and milage.
The province takes the federal guide lines and accepts them as they are or makes them more restrictive to match what they want for the province. In Ontario you need a moped licence but we don't.
The next step is that towns and cities or counties/townships can impose their laws so long as the province doesn't say they can't. Such as Victoria can say that all mopeds have to have a flashing light over top of the moped for better visibility in the city limits but they can't if the province says that they can't.
At the bottom of the heap are you and I.
You wouldn't be creating a bicycle. Someone already created the bicycle but your modifying the bicycle by putting a motor on it. Now Victoria and I.C.B.C. want to see what you have done to the bicycle and is what you did safe so they want to inspect it and assign a vin#.
This is where the problem is since they will look and see that you have modified a bicycle that was meant to be pedaled or at best modified with an electric motor not more than 500W by putting a gas motor on it.
The reason that you don't see anything about gas motors on bicycles on the I.C.B.C. site is because they aren't legal. The site just tells you what you need to know about what they will accept and that is a a 500W electric motor with the safty features that are listed.
As it was so kindly explained to me almost 50 years age by a judge, the government is only responsible to tell you what is legal but it is up to you to find out what is illegal then he fined me more money than I made in 4 months {Your turn not to ask but it was worth ever penny}. Ever since I don't do anything that might be the least bit illegal without researching it very carefully.
What Ottawa?? There is only one "Ottawa" and you can bet you know who will be on your door step asking why you didn't know.
You are only concerned about B.C. and if you ask your lawyer they will be able to tell you the laws here. If they find a way out please let us know. You will be the motor bikers hero of the decade or longer.
If I had a close friend who built motorcycle frames I'd be asking him to make me a frame if he could.
Steve.
Absolutely no offence taken at all.
The feds in Ottawa draw up the government vehicle safety guidelines that your wifes uncle and your friend build their vehicles to match. As you say they are registered with the government and are required to meet certain standards.
The Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Act tells the car makers what safety standards they have to build into their cars and when. What and where it goes on the vehicle to make the vehicle match the government standards. They also set emissions and milage.
The province takes the federal guide lines and accepts them as they are or makes them more restrictive to match what they want for the province. In Ontario you need a moped licence but we don't.
The next step is that towns and cities or counties/townships can impose their laws so long as the province doesn't say they can't. Such as Victoria can say that all mopeds have to have a flashing light over top of the moped for better visibility in the city limits but they can't if the province says that they can't.
At the bottom of the heap are you and I.
You wouldn't be creating a bicycle. Someone already created the bicycle but your modifying the bicycle by putting a motor on it. Now Victoria and I.C.B.C. want to see what you have done to the bicycle and is what you did safe so they want to inspect it and assign a vin#.
This is where the problem is since they will look and see that you have modified a bicycle that was meant to be pedaled or at best modified with an electric motor not more than 500W by putting a gas motor on it.
The reason that you don't see anything about gas motors on bicycles on the I.C.B.C. site is because they aren't legal. The site just tells you what you need to know about what they will accept and that is a a 500W electric motor with the safty features that are listed.
As it was so kindly explained to me almost 50 years age by a judge, the government is only responsible to tell you what is legal but it is up to you to find out what is illegal then he fined me more money than I made in 4 months {Your turn not to ask but it was worth ever penny}. Ever since I don't do anything that might be the least bit illegal without researching it very carefully.
What Ottawa?? There is only one "Ottawa" and you can bet you know who will be on your door step asking why you didn't know.
You are only concerned about B.C. and if you ask your lawyer they will be able to tell you the laws here. If they find a way out please let us know. You will be the motor bikers hero of the decade or longer.
If I had a close friend who built motorcycle frames I'd be asking him to make me a frame if he could.
Steve.
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