Lighting System

GoldenMotor.com

jared8783

New Member
May 13, 2009
216
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Elkhart, IN
Hello everybody
My name is Jared

I am preparing to mount a four stroke on a cruiser and I am looking to install fully functional headlight, tail light, brake light, and turn signals. I do not want to have to charge batteries i just want them to rely on the motor just like a moped. I also want to stay away from 6 volt since parts can be harder to come by. I was thinking about hooking up one or two of those old school bicycle generators to a small moped battery but I do not know if they make those in 12 volt. That is the only idea i can come up with so far.

If anyone can give me ant tips/suggestions/or even a new idea that would be really cool.

Thanx
 

Cabinfever1977

New Member
Mar 23, 2009
2,288
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Upstate,NY
mopeds have a generator(altanator) and a battery and are probally 6 volts.
bike generators are 6 volts and will put out more voltage at higher speeds and may blow a bulb.
youre going to need a battery and charger if you want a lot of lights(go with a cordless power tool battery and charger or scooter battery and charger.
you can run a headlight and tailight with the bike engine maybe more if you use leds.
i have a 18v cordless tool battery$18 and 1hour charger$20 (walmart)
and i have 2 12 volt car lights hooked together in series to = 24volts that way the lights wont blow out.
or you could put a 6volt bike generator and battery and use 6 volt lights sold at all car stores and anywhere boat lights are sold like walmart.
 

Outrunner

New Member
Dec 27, 2008
147
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Atlanta, Georgia
I would stay away from the bicycle generators, because they are not
built to withstand the high rpm and constant high speed that our MB's
create. They will self destruct for sure, you can count on it. I've been
using a 12 volt 4 1/2 amp alarm system battery with a VERY bright
WalMart tractor light for $12.00 and a led tail light $16.00. I only have
to charge the battery once a week, as long as I don't turn on the
Head light. It's very simple to charge. I unplug the wire coming out
of the battery box that is mounted just below my seat and attach
a cheap trickle charger to it over night,no problem!
 

civlized

New Member
Apr 28, 2009
689
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Alabama
Maybe you could mount a sprocket to the head of a generator and drive it off the chain instead of the tire to reduce the rpm? I have thought about it myself but haven't experimented any, yet.
 

civlized

New Member
Apr 28, 2009
689
1
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Alabama
I am sure that I have seen 12 volt bicycle generators. Something bigger may put a little strain on the poor engine. Surely this can be done.
 

Cabinfever1977

New Member
Mar 23, 2009
2,288
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Upstate,NY
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matt167

New Member
May 20, 2009
420
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usa
6v parts are not hard to come by... a trip to TSC and you'll find every lightbulb you need in 6v, and a trip to an autostore and you'll get every light socket you need... 6v or 12v, it doesn't matter as the light sockets are the same... auto parts stores can get 6v bulbs also, but you need a good counter person to look them up.. at that point you could use old motorcycle lights with a moped generator.

the lighting kit for the TSC mini baja minibikes would likely work too, as there run off of engine power, which is also 6v A/C... tho they may run a rectifier on it to make D/C
 

Retmachinist

New Member
Oct 21, 2008
635
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Urbandale Ia
Why not just use a small 12 volt rechargeable battery. I don't know how long you plan on riding at night but the battery pictured on this bike will run a bright 9 l.e.d. headlight and a 3 l.e.d tailight for over three hours between charges. Battery can be charged over 500 times.
You can find the really nice 12 volt automotive sockets and bulbs at most auto parts stores.
The SLA batteries and mini charger can be purchased at many places on line.
I am running them on a couple different bikes and they work Sweet!

John
 

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civlized

New Member
Apr 28, 2009
689
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Alabama
I have the same set up on a couple of bikes. The problem is when the battery is not charged and you have to work late or something and end up having to ride at night. I also don't like led lights very much for a true headlight. Just before dark to make yourself seen by others is fine, but actually using them to see through the night at 40mph isn't good for me. I would prefer to have something more reliable than a battery and led's.
 

ZnsaneRyder

New Member
Nov 21, 2008
163
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FLORIDA
Try this:

1. Get a gas engine that charges your battery OR charge your battery before you leave Like I do.

2. LED is good if you get the right ones. Regular mass-produced LED's aren't that good, you have to get creative, but good bright ones will outshine a Halogen while using much less power.

3. I agree with you about 12V. It's the best to use for lots of stuff because automotive stuff is all 12V, and it's very common. Also 12V batteries are common, and have plenty of power.

4. Have a backup battery and/or lights in case your main 12V dies, and you still need light.

Let me give you an example of my bike, and my lights that work GREAT! I wish I had my engine charge the lights like you do, but since I don't yet, I made the best electrical system I could, so when I finally get that engine to charge it, then the bike will be ready for it.

I'm using a dual 4v/12V setup on my bicycle. It's done this way, so if my 12V dies, with the 4V backup, I still have plenty of light for more hours after!

I have a 4V Lithium-Ion Battery setup for the main 50-LED headlight, and also 4V tail light. The 12V is a 30 subC-cell NiCd homemade battery. The 12V charges the 4V system, and also runs a 12V LED car tail light, orange LED running lights, Car Horn, and a 55W Halogen automotive light.

The 50-LED headlight even on 4V, shines further than the 55W Halogen, and is brighter far away. The LED also has a great flood, and on low-beam it only uses 0.5W and on High Beam it uses only 4W from the 4V Lithium Ion battery, and I get over 3 hrs high beam, 10 hours low beam. It uses 16 high power 10mm LED in center for main beam, and 34 low power 5mm LED for surrounding light totaling 50 LEDs. They are all soldered to a circuit board mounted to the front of my control box.

The 12V 55W light has a much brighter flood, but doesn't shine out as far as the LED. It only lasts 40 minutes, and uses a lot of power from my 12V, so I'm removing this 55W halogen and going for just the LED. The 12V still runs the LED by charging the 4V.

Post if you have questions about setting up the LED PCB headlights. They save your battery, and will make it easier on your charging once you find an engine that charges your battery.
 
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Cabinfever1977

New Member
Mar 23, 2009
2,288
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Upstate,NY
then if you dont want to charge a battery or pack the youre going to have to hook lights to your engine or buy a generator(bike,moped or something) and a small battery(unless its a bike generator) that matches the generator and lights that match that also.
i have a 18v battery(weighs 1lb and is small) that last a long time and recharges in 1hour but im thinking of using a extra set of backup lights that run off the engine too.

if i want to i have a 24v electric bike battery pack that would last for days and have lots of power but it weighs atleast 20+lbs and the pack is not small.
 
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Earthman

New Member
Mar 24, 2009
82
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0
Pittsburgh, PA
I too am building a “full electrical system” for my MB. However, I’m not planning to power it from the engine, which puts out 6v +/- at 3 Watts +/-. This is what I’ve learned so far:

For a 12v system, you should plan to use 12v LED tail, stop, and turn signal lights because these use the least power. For the headlight, in my opinion you will need a 20 Watt (minimum) up to a 50 Watt incandescent bulb with a good reflector to create enough light to safely go 25 MPH+ at night. Incandescent bulbs of lower power don’t put out enough light.

I built a headlight using a 4" dia. PVC cap, some aluminum bar stock, and a 20 Watt landscape flood light. See the attached photos.

Unless you get creative (see ZnsaneRyder post above), LED headlights seem to produce a relatively dim flood pattern or a bright and small spot pattern, but not both at the same time. In my opinion, they don’t put out the “volume” of light that is needed to drive safely at night. Not only do you need to see the road, but you have to be seen by other traffic as well. Consequently, having a thin beam that produces a bright spot in front of the bike isn’t necessarily good enough to keep you safe. You need a bright area in front (spot) and a relatively wide (flood) light pattern side to side as well. Look at your car’s headlight pattern – bright in the middle, with a dimmer, but wider flood pattern to the sides.

Generally, the more power a light draws (in Watts), the brighter it is, but the more load it puts on your batter/charging system. A 20 Watt bulb will draw about 1.7 amps of current and a 50 Watt bulb will draw about 4 amps (Power = Current x Voltage, or P=IxE. Therefore, I=P/E). A 7amp-hour 12v battery will last about 4 hours powering a 20 Watt bulb, and about 1.75 hours powering a 50 Watt bulb.

If using a 12v gel cell battery in your electrical system, the brightness of the headlight will diminish with time as the voltage decreases. You should not let a gel cell battery go below 10.7 volts or you shorten its life. The “best” battery to use may be one made from nickel metal hydride (NMH) cells. NMH batteries are light, have a flat discharge curve, but “die” quickly with little notice. NMH batteries don’t have a memory effect like nickel cadmium batteries. Another nice thing about using other than gel cell batteries is you can buy or make a battery that puts out more or less than 12v. You can drive a 12v bulb with 14.4v to get a brighter light with shorter bulb life, or with will less then 10.8v to get less light, but longer bulb life.

Wheel-driven, and hub bicycle generators provide 3 to 6 Watts of power, which is probably enough to power the LED tail, stop, and turn signal lights, but is way too short on power for the headlight. I doubt the generator/alternator in your small motor puts out more than 6 Watts. You will likely need a battery in your electrical system to provide power for when you turn on the headlight.

FYI, Harbor Freight Tools is selling a package of two, rectangular, 12v, 50 Watt spot lights for $7 until June 6, 2009. Normally they sell for $14. The lights have a relatively clear lens, and a relatively light black plastic housings with a mounting bolt. Good for experimenting.
 

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jared8783

New Member
May 13, 2009
216
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0
Elkhart, IN
that is a nice looking headlight you got there earthman
im actually going to use a 55 watt halogen car foglight ive already picked out at autozone for my headlight
and since they only come in packs of 2 I am going to aim one high and one low for high beams and low beams

as for the generator
i want aprox 100 watt and MUST be 12 volt
i am having a lot of trouble finding one that small

but from what I've learned on other sites aparently i can get a DC motor and spin it and then it will put out power

that leaves me now with just a couple of questions left now

What specifications do I need to look for in a motor to get a 12V 100 watt output?

How will I know what rpm's I need to spin it to get those specs so then i know what size sprocket to weld on to it?

by the way thanks for all the ideas everyone
 

jared8783

New Member
May 13, 2009
216
0
0
Elkhart, IN
Last edited:

Outrunner

New Member
Dec 27, 2008
147
0
0
Atlanta, Georgia
Why not just use a small 12 volt rechargeable battery. I don't know how long you plan on riding at night but the battery pictured on this bike will run a bright 9 l.e.d. headlight and a 3 l.e.d tailight for over three hours between charges. Battery can be charged over 500 times.
You can find the really nice 12 volt automotive sockets and bulbs at most auto parts stores.
The SLA batteries and mini charger can be purchased at many places on line.
I am running them on a couple different bikes and they work Sweet!

John
Hey Ret, That bike of yours looks GREAT. I can see from your pic that you
machined the muffler support and slick lookin' chain tensioner, plus all the
other nice aluminum fabrication you did. Great Job!