Im Going Legal in PA

[Rnroutlaw]

ok, I am still working on getting my kit on.(Coaster brake is at shop) But My friends first interaction with the law was yesterday. He was riding down the street and a cop pulled into the house next door to his. My friend got nervous because he doesnt have light,mirrors, or horn yet so he pulled into his yard. After a few minutes of observing the cop did nothing...not a thing just backed out and left. So was he waiting for my friend to go back on the road or was he just admiring from afar the bicycle? Could go either way I gues so we still don't know how the cops our in our town.

 

[NEAT TIMES]

Hi, The Reason I Mentioned "tom, Wrong Way Wooten" Because I Worry About Getting Hit From Behind. I Found Some Information On The Net About Wooten. In The 1980`s Wooten Crossed The Country Riding Backwards. = Trivia.

 

[whodathunkit]

After I saw Scribbles' post about PA Senate Bill 1444, I read the bill thoroughly, as well as anything else that popped up on a search of DMV's web site using the keywords "motorized pedalcycle". As a result, I'm convinced we have a pretty hard case that no registration, title, inspection, or special license is required. Furthermore, it appears that we're exempt from the protective headgear requirement. Here's what I found:

PA Title 75, P.L 162, No81, Effective July 1 1977:
http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/vehicle_code/chapter1.pdf
Section 102(2) defines a motorized pedalcycle as "A motor-driven cycle equipped with operable pedals, a motor no more than 1.5 brake horsepower, a cylinder capacity not exceeding 50 cubic centimeters, an automatic transmission, and a maximum design speed of no more than 25 miles per hour......"

PA Senate Bill 1444 (Session of 1978), Amending Title 75
SENATE BILL 1444 P.N. 1826
Section 102 defines 'Motorcycle' and Motor-driven cycle', but goes on to say that these definitions do not include a 'motorized pedalcycle'. Section 1102(11) specifically says that a motorized pedalcycle does not require a title. Section 1302(10) specifically says that a motorized pedlcycle does not require registration.

Subchapter J, "Vehicle Equipment and Registration Regulations"
http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/pub_45/section_jk.pdf
Section 175.220(e) specifically says "A motorized pedalcycle is exempt from inspection"

Chapter 35 "Special Vehicles and Pedestrians"
http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/vehicle_code/chapter35.pdf
Section 3525(a) Provides an exclusion from the protective headgear requirement for motorized pedalcycles

So it appears to me that, assuming our motors are under 50cc and 1.5 HP, we don't need registration, titling, inspection, or protective headgear. The only sticky point for me is the engine size; even though my engine is "80cc" and technically not in the 'motorized pedalcycle' class, I carry a screen capture printout of an identical-looking 49CC motor with spec's that indicate that it meets the regulations. Unless someone wants to dyno-test my engine, I don't know how they could prove otherwise.

As a consequence of what I've found, I plan to forget about trying to 'go legal ; we are legal! Per Scribbles suggestion, I plan to just carry copies of all these laws with me.

I know that there are FAQ's and guidelines on the PA DMV web site that conflict with what I've reported, but I have cited the actual statutes that spell it out clearly. If we agree that we're already pretty well protected, then it might not be wise to push our legislators for 'better' regulations. In today's over-protective legislative climate, it would surely only lead to more restrictions.

I have attached a small wallet-size card that I carry, summarizing all of this in case I do get pulled over.

Joe

 

[whodathunkit]

I've been talking to DMV (who are of very little help with this set of conflicting laws), and in going through my research, I've come up with an important question: Does anyone know if PA Senate Bill 1444 was ever actually enacted into law? If so, it's not reflected in the current Title 75 code, which DMV says is the last word on vehicle legalities.

Joe

 

[whodathunkit]

I'm going to answer my own question about Senate Bill 1444 of the 1978 Session, which was originally referenced by Scribbles, and re-referenced by me above. This is the one that said that registration isn't required.

I spoke with PA's Legislative Reference Bureau today about the history of this bill. It seems that Senate Bill 1444 was never enacted as legislation. It was sent to the Department of Transportation in April of 1978 as part of the new-legislation process, and it died there.

Consequently, it appears that Title 75, as written and referenced above by me, is the current law. Registration IS required, but not titling or inspection. However, the process to get registration seems impossibly circular. as has been noted previously.

It seems that the best course of action is, as many have said, to drive responsibly and try to "stay off the radar screen".

Joe

 

[jbcruisin]

This is great info. I have a 99 Whizzer ,49 Whizzer & I'm building a 24 inch bike for Quenton,s Proto-type kit that he will soon have on the market. I live in Pa. & have been researching title stuff. Many states have title companys that will give you titles for almost any vehicle except mopeds. I'm still looking. Looks like Scribbles has found the best info. I'm printing his link to the Pa. laws & will post any problems if they occur. till then I will ride & pray I am legal in Pa. Ha, ha. Ride!!
Jay
P.S. Are any of you Pa. riders going to the Connecticut or Lewis, Delaware rides this year?

 

[Vince1982]

So it would be illegal to ride an electric bicycle on the road here in Pennsylvania without a driver's license? Because I'm going to be losing my license for 60 days and I'm trying to find an alternate way to get 8 miles to work everyday in a small town with no public transportation.

 

[commander]

I have attached a small wallet-size card that I carry, summarizing all of this in case I do get pulled over.

Joe

Thank you and scribbles and everyone else that live in Penn state for all this info,I too live here and have been extremely worried about the "cop factor" I just did my build a few days ago , then I started to worry about the laws, I have a current motor cycle and class b license so i feel im covered in that area. It just the reg. and title and insurance part im worried about.Thanks for all your help

SENATE BILL 1444 P.N. 1826

there it is i printed a copy of it and keep it in on me when i ride... also with more research i believe its still in service so keep riding we are legal...

I have made several copies to carry with me also. thank you for starting this thread

 

[whodathunkit]

Commander,

Important to keep in mind:

PA Senate Bill #1444, which was the lynchpin of Scribbles' "no registration required" argument, was never enacted into law. Therefore, as PA DMV sees it, anything that has a motor is a "motorized vehicle" and requires registration. You can call them until you're blue in the face (as I have, several times), and you'll probably get nowhere. The remaining 'on-the-books' statutes explicitly say that a title is not required and that inspection is not required, but the process of obtaining registration for a homemade bike requires insurance, which requires a VIN, a title, and a pre-titling safety inspection. As others have noted many times, this is a hoplessly circular set of requirements, and so it appears that we'll never be 'legal in PA' until there is a legislative breakthrough.

I've been riding quite a bit in spite of this. Stay off high-traffic roads, keep your speed low, don't do anything crazy and pedal when appropriate.

Joe

 

[commander]

Thanks for the update Joe,

I too am careful when I ride and do peddle to make it "look" like a normal bike. My only real issue is the noise from the engine as that gives my position away very fast. Ive done alot of research into quieting this motor down. But it seems I would have to build an electric bike if I want stealth, but you loose alot of range with e-bikes vs gas.

So I will stick to less traveled roads , plus I have made copies of the material here so I might be able to baffle a traffic cop with some hard facts , although some "truths" I will omit in the hopes of not getting a ticket.

I live in a rather big community here in the Pocono's and that is mostly where I will base my rides and if our security personal leave me alone I will have over 40 + miles of non highway paroled paved roads in which to have some fun in.They (security) passed me two times with out so much as a glance my way the other day out riding, so Im hopeful my new build will go un noticed and I will be able to enjoy this bike alot more this summer, plus I just purchased another engine and am waiting to build it for my wife. Hope she will like it as much as I do


It is very sad to know that I can drive up to a 26,000 pound vehicle any where in the USA and Canada and a full motorcycle, But I cant legally drive a silly 80 cc bicycle in my home state . Kinda rubs a guy the wrong way, guess if there is enough people who decide to build and tempt fate by riding them, then maybe some politician will take notice and realize another source of revenue by making us all go legal and getting there tax money from the MB people of the world.


thanks again Joe for the advice

 

[longjohnsilver]

I have a friend in Harrisburg, he say's that this is still a grey area. even though it has a motor it's still a bicycle. Not a moped, not a scooter, not a motorcycle, but a bicycle. the modification would make it peddle assist. The whole thing is still open to iterpretation.. I do'nt know... I don't have a liscence, am I going to get pulled over If I'm peddling and not using the motor? Unlless the cops actually hear you running the motor how can they tell?

 

[longjohnsilver]

SWEET!!! i LOVE IT

 

[longjohnsilver]

You know what I say? scr*&** the cops and to qoute my good friend Rob Halford from the rock band Judas Priest....Breaking the law..Breaking the Law!!!

 

[commander]

You know what I say? scr*&** the cops and to qoute my good friend Rob Halford from the rock band Judas Priest....Breaking the law..Breaking the Law!!!

enough tickets and you tend to change your mind, "screwing" the cops usually ends in you sitting in a 9 by 5 cage for a day or too.

When riding these MB a good healthy attitude towards law enforcement goes along way.

But as we all kinda know these Motor bikes are just alittle on the illigal side of the law but yet we build them anyways , some of us go under the radar and never run into law issues but others do. Its a gamble for sure on each ride. But my biggest defense is good attitude when speaking with any law enforcement personal. And trust me it goes alot better for us when we cooperate for the most part with them over these bike issues.

 

[longjohnsilver]

There is truth and wisdom in that statment. Cops have brought nothing to my table but pain and misery. I've watched them kill kids and shoot people in the back, they're nothing more than thugs with badges. You'll have to forgive me when I say the only cops you can trust are the dead ones. In retrospect they're just a modern day revenuer!, but I digress..anyway goodmorning commander!

 

[rmeloy34]

Im glad barney fyfe in CT hasnt caught this

 

[rmeloy34]

thats what the kill switch is for...LOL

 

[commander]

Man this is sad, my community security patrol was on the look out for me riding yesterday . There almost worse than regular cops cause they can fine me easier than a regular police would. Now they got me worried to ride my build

Ive built two for me and the wife and we had a blast yesterday, Im not %100 sure they were after me but a neighbor thought they were . I wish it would not take an act of congree to make these things legal for me to ride in Penn state.

 

[longjohnsilver]

it almost has me considering selling my house and moving someplace where you can ride without the fear of robocop seperating you from your ride! I just had to buy my first house in Pennsylvania; f#*# Pennsylvania.

 

[commander]

Yea LJS , I been trying to sell my house for over a year now, the market has tanked and a person doesn't want to just give there home away ya know.I love the state , just bored silly with living in a restrictive community is all. and the pocono's are full of them. some better than others as far as rules go.

But as far as my bike and motor go. Im not %100 sure what to do yet. I guess I will just keep riding until told otherwise for now. there is worse things people do here than me riding a motorized bike ya know.