Front mounted minimoto engine

[Cagiva4ever]

hi ! Jose

im currently also making this same system, im also mounting minimoto (stock standard 47cc) engine into back, into a 26"inches mountainbike.

what size is your mountainbicycle, what " tyres ?

what kind of gearing do you have on it ? if you can tell me the Diameters of the sprockets in millimetres ?

bye
markus

 

[jose Pinto]

hi ! Jose

im currently also making this same system, im also mounting minimoto (stock standard 47cc) engine into back, into a 26"inches mountainbike.

what size is your mountainbicycle, what " tyres ?

what kind of gearing do you have on it ? if you can tell me the Diameters of the sprockets in millimetres ?

bye
markus

Hello Markus okay. the size of my wheel is 26 "I'll send some pictures to see better. SITEME has dual gear ratio to 1 ratio is 10 to 36 and 2 ° ratio is 10 to 52. I mean the number of teeth of the sprockets . I hope to answer your question, if I was not back to what you intend. The diameter of the sprockets has no interest because it is pending the current measurement
greetings await response
Jose Pinto

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[Cagiva4ever]

Hi ! Jose

thanks for a friendly reply and photos.

im in a situation where i am not able to use same "pitch" sprockets as other people have used in this topic. that is why i have asked Diameters for sprockets in mm's. that is why teeth amount wont help me much when im trying to find sprockets in Fi to suit your set-up.

have you had any Vibration problems on the engine mounting points so far ? no M6 bolt threads have been cracked yet or anything like that ?

i can see from your photo that you are using the Minimoto "ClutchBell" with its OWN original sprocket. So, is that 2nd sprocket on the 1st photo (at right corner on the 1st photo) also a minimoto sprocket ? By this guestion in verifying that both sprockets are same Pitch for same Pitch chain..

That silver big sprocket on rear rim hub, is it a moped sprocket for 415 chain ? and also the 10teeth sprocket is for 415-chain ?


Do you have stock standard original ClutchShoes on that motor ? how do they last in use with that gearing ? Clutch not burning or getting Glazed ?

bye
markus

 

[jose Pinto]

hey Markus
I'm glad you understand my message. do not understand why you say that you can not do with sprockets chain. For the first reduction gears are of minimotos yes. second reduction in the wheel of a bike is great for 60 years, the center has a freewheel. when you talk about 415 chain, I do not know that name. I speak very bad English and use google translator to communicate with people and be certain details that are lost, try to explain it better. As to vibration initially had, but after I decided to make an anti-vibration system by placing a sheet of rubber being the base engine and the supporting structure, fix on 1st photo and check the rubber plate, with an important detail for this to work the four mounting screws will tighten the motor plate and four rubber rubber fixed to the structure supporting the engine.
J.P

 

[Cagiva4ever]

hi !

im living in a very small country side village, we do not have any "hardware stores" selling 1/2" or 3/8" sprockets/chains. i would have to online order everything like that and everything in Finland costs very much. Im trying to keep a low budget on this project, im making parts from Scrapyard findings.

i have mostly available bicycle sprockets and 50cc moped sprockets here in my home village and at next small town.

415-Chain is a 415-Pitch. usually its a 50cc moped Chain in europe. in here some moped Chains are 428 Pitch.

i have noticed earlyer at some Minimoto forums that people have added soft rubber pad/insulation under the motor mountings, to eliminate vibrations that could crack the engine casings.


"Do you have stock standard original ClutchShoes on that motor ? how do they last in use with that gearing ? Clutch not burning or getting Glazed ?"

This is ClutchBell: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2259/1802755254_4bdeadfe78_m.jpg

This is ClutchShoes on your and mine engine: http://www.mad4motox.com/files/clutch-47-49cc-engine.jpg
Do you have these Standard ClutchShoes on yours ? or something better ?

bye
m

 

[jose Pinto]

Hello Friend. is it really so complicated, the standard of living in Finland is so very expensive? eesti toothed wheel that rode on my bike are antique bicycles, here I have no problem in finding them. As to reposção parts for the engine are also very easy to find. if I can help in any way the possession friend
I've done enough km with this engine and did not notice any problem with the clutch, or any kind of glaze. But take note with this system of conveying. previously had another transmission and yes there had heating problems in the clutch. this ratio is excellent for conveying devour mountains.

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

Steering is not affected while driving if engine is well balanced, only drawback is when parking the bike....front fork has its own mind in which position it wants to stay..

I ran a twin-engined bicycle; one engine was in the front. When I first bought the front-engine Staton friction drive, it was designed for non-suspension bikes.


I had front suspension, so I bought a non-suspension bike to install both engines. A few months later, I figured a way to install the front engine drive onto the suspension fork.

Find a way to install a suspension fork, then adapt your engine onto the new fork.

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

Steering is not affected while driving if engine is well balanced, only drawback is when parking the bike....front fork has its own mind in which position it wants to stay..

I had the same problem with my twin-engined bike. The heavy front was like yours, so I did this:


Tie a length of rope at its center, onto the seat post. Make it long enough so that both ends reach the handle bear grips. I use a two-legged bike stand. When the stand is used, tie both handlebar grips with the rope. This will center the fork and keep it there.

I had a Happy Time fuel tank, so I wrapped the rope around the gas cap, when not in use.

 

[Cagiva4ever]

This is a bike me and my son built using a 49cc minimoto engine with a 5 to 1 reduction gearbox, ten tooth sprocket output to a 48 sprocket at wheel. ...

HI !

hoping to hear from you (as you havent ever replyed anything back to any of my PM's or messages on this topic)

Do you know what brand/model is the 10t sprocket on the Reduction Gearbox at the output driveshaft.

so far i have discovered that the slotted diam is about 14mm:
http://www.miniatureimports.co.uk/images/DSC07833.jpg

MINIMOTO MINI MOTO DIRT BIKE FRONT SPROCKET 11 TOOTH | eBay UK

im wondering if you took the mentioned 10t sprocket from a moped or something and it is with a 415chain Pitch 12,6mm ??? (used in various mopeds and race 125cc Gp bikes etc and is also same Pitch as in Most Bicycle's that have no Gears )

When im looking your Topic photos of the Bicycle it looks like you would have 415 Chain on it ???

if you do have 415 Chain on it and 10tooth sprocket from a moped, im wondering what model/manufacturer as seems that in your case it was a DIRECT fit to the Reduction GearBox DriveShaft slots ???


im currently in a situation for searching reduction GearBox for my Bicycle hybrid with Cagllari 47cc Minimoto engine. and i have a 12,6mm Pitch bicycle sprocket on my rear rim.

i used to have the BASIC ClutchBell with a 10t sprocket (welded onto-over a 8mm pitch std minimoto sprocket) type 415 on it, but now im in a need of Reduction GearBox and im now trying to figure if i can slot a 415 type moped 10t sprocket directly to the Reduction GearBox output DriveShaft )

some investigation and measures i have managed to find/compere but your help/info Exactly regarding my guestion would help very much.

bye
m

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

m,

I use this 5:1 pocket bike transmission. It's cheap on ebay, but worth its weight in gold:



It is the key to many successful engine designs.

I use T8F(8mm) bike chain and sprockets. The pitch is tighter, so the sprockets are smaller than 415 pitch. FWIW, my 63-tooth sprocket is only 150mm or 5.9" diameter. With an 11-tooth engine/transmission sprocket, that's 5.73:1 gear ratio. Multiply that with a 5:1 tranny and you get 28.64:1 stiff gearing.

To get a 24:1 gear ratio like Jose, you would need a 42-tooth sprocket, which should be about 100mm or 4" diameter.

If hard to find parts, then use thE 10-tooth six-spline transmission sprocket:

and this 36-tooth sprocket:

http://www.sickbikeparts.com/catalo...ducts_id=36&osCsid=9i3cft6761okg5fkd2gne4n4i1
These use bike chain.

 

[Cagiva4ever]

hi ! 5-7heaven

Thanks for very good info especially for the Diamemerts info etc.

i have a trusty ebay.co.uk seller, the Minimoto imports linked above. Currently im waiting to hear if he has used or new reduction gearbox.

in Fi minimoto parts are basically non-existing and top of all super prizy. in UK just the 3shoe clutch home delivered is 8 times cheaper than in Fi.

The bicycle sprocket (12,6mm Pitch) that i have at my rear rim as for 2T engine Transmission is Diameter 175mm.
its exactly this1, German made nickel Chromed super lightweight and durable:
http://i5.pinkbike.com/photo/1425/pbpic1425850.jpg

Moped 415 type Chain/pitch 12,6mm front Sprockets that i can go see/finger touch my self at neighbour town moped-bicycle shop (90km away) are this:
https://sparewheel.fi/images/390.jpg.jpg

if i get lucky the slots are same dimensions as in Minimoto reduction gearbox output driveshaft, if not then i need to modify...

Currently my gearing with the basic ClutchBell is too long and heavy and i feel that im burning the 3shoe std clutch if i keep going. i have std 47cc engine exept a 19mm Dellorto phbg19xx China Copy Carb and Tuning exhaust, too much power for the heavy gearing currently..feel so..

my trusty ebay seller "miniature imports" juts replyed back that he will go and look his 2nd hand used parts pile for Reduction boxes, as he has the Slim look box and a bulky looking1.

Any1 have any photo with Dimensions for the Different shape Boxes ? Only Rough meaure that i have is the total lenght being summink like 180~200mm as Shoe Drum is ~80mm diam.

im wondering how much is the Off-Set at the Box, how far out does it come and std Chain alignment on it comopered to some Solid point on the engine or Box casing.

in my home village (population under 3300) im the 2nd only person to have this engine, no1 here to goto see and measure..

Bye
m

 

[nemlu7]

HI !

hoping to hear from you (as you havent ever replyed anything back to any of my PM's or messages on this topic)

Do you know what brand/model is the 10t sprocket on the Reduction Gearbox at the output driveshaft.

so far i have discovered that the slotted diam is about 14mm:
http://www.miniatureimports.co.uk/images/DSC07833.jpg

MINIMOTO MINI MOTO DIRT BIKE FRONT SPROCKET 11 TOOTH | eBay UK

im wondering if you took the mentioned 10t sprocket from a moped or something and it is with a 415chain Pitch 12,6mm ??? (used in various mopeds and race 125cc Gp bikes etc and is also same Pitch as in Most Bicycle's that have no Gears )

When im looking your Topic photos of the Bicycle it looks like you would have 415 Chain on it ???

if you do have 415 Chain on it and 10tooth sprocket from a moped, im wondering what model/manufacturer as seems that in your case it was a DIRECT fit to the Reduction GearBox DriveShaft slots ???


im currently in a situation for searching reduction GearBox for my Bicycle hybrid with Cagllari 47cc Minimoto engine. and i have a 12,6mm Pitch bicycle sprocket on my rear rim.

i used to have the BASIC ClutchBell with a 10t sprocket (welded onto-over a 8mm pitch std minimoto sprocket) type 415 on it, but now im in a need of Reduction GearBox and im now trying to figure if i can slot a 415 type moped 10t sprocket directly to the Reduction GearBox output DriveShaft )

some investigation and measures i have managed to find/compere but your help/info Exactly regarding my guestion would help very much.

bye
m

Hello ,sorry foanswering back,but i,ve been veryr not busy....and not much time to play with these motored monsters!!!..make sure that your gearbox has at least 5 to 1 reduction...if the output shaft from gearbox has 6 splines you can get a 10 tooth sprocket for it, from thatsdax.com ,the owner is Duane,and im sure he'll help you out.if you can,post pics of gearbox it can help to help ID the shaft.the sprocket has the same pitch as china kits and will accept the 410.415 and the 420 chain.hope i've been of some help and just ask if you need mor info and i'll try my best to answer.

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

hi ! 5-7heaven

Thanks for very good info especially for the Diamemerts info etc.

i have a trusty ebay.co.uk seller, the Minimoto imports linked above. Currently im waiting to hear if he has used or new reduction gearbox.

in Fi minimoto parts are basically non-existing and top of all super prizy. in UK just the 3shoe clutch home delivered is 8 times cheaper than in Fi.

The bicycle sprocket (12,6mm Pitch) that i have at my rear rim as for 2T engine Transmission is Diameter 175mm.
its exactly this1, German made nickel Chromed super lightweight and durable:
http://i5.pinkbike.com/photo/1425/pbpic1425850.jpg

Moped 415 type Chain/pitch 12,6mm front Sprockets that i can go see/finger touch my self at neighbour town moped-bicycle shop (90km away) are this:
https://sparewheel.fi/images/390.jpg.jpg

if i get lucky the slots are same dimensions as in Minimoto reduction gearbox output driveshaft, if not then i need to modify...

Currently my gearing with the basic ClutchBell is too long and heavy and i feel that im burning the 3shoe std clutch if i keep going. i have std 47cc engine exept a 19mm Dellorto phbg19xx China Copy Carb and Tuning exhaust, too much power for the heavy gearing currently..feel so..

my trusty ebay seller "miniature imports" juts replyed back that he will go and look his 2nd hand used parts pile for Reduction boxes, as he has the Slim look box and a bulky looking1.

Any1 have any photo with Dimensions for the Different shape Boxes ? Only Rough meaure that i have is the total lenght being summink like 180~200mm as Shoe Drum is ~80mm diam.

im wondering how much is the Off-Set at the Box, how far out does it come and std Chain alignment on it comopered to some Solid point on the engine or Box casing.

in my home village (population under 3300) im the 2nd only person to have this engine, no1 here to goto see and measure..

Bye
m

Hi again.

The minimoto gearboxes you're thinking of might not be the one you need. The thinner one is chain drive and MIGHT have 2.19:1 gear reduction. The other is a CVT belt drive. Both are thick and wide.

My 5:1 gearbox bolts right onto engine. The one I use looks like this:



I buy mine on ebay for about $23, which is MUCH cheaper than the reduction boxes you're looking at.

Do NOT use those "cookie-cutter-type" stamped plate 10-tooth sprockets. They have the correct 6-spline shaft patter and slip right on. However, they are too thin and made of inferior mater, and will wear out soon. The ones to use are thicker, cast molded in iron or steel and last longer. I use an 11-tooth T8F 8mm sprocket. I've used it over one year, and it shows no wear.

How many teeth on your rear sprocket? The sprocket you have does not seem to have enough metal at the center. A solid sprocket would work better. Any old sprocket should work. It just need the right number of teeth, which I think should be 36 to 38 tooth. With 10-tooth gearbox sprocket and 38-tooth rear sprocket = 3.8:1...Multiply that by 5:1 gearbox = 19:1 final drive, which is overall very good.

 

[Cagiva4ever]

hi !

these are not the soft China made sprockets or anything like that. in Fi they are as STD on Suzuki rm50cc and 80cc engines without any durability problems. These will last easyly thousands of kilometres :
https://sparewheel.fi/images/390.jpg.jpg

The GearBox that you bought of ebay for 23$ , Do you know what was its Origin meaning vehicle sales name ? maybe it could help me as an info of source/origin when i compere my findings..

Photo is missing from the Post that you made previously, it didnt get Pasted.. Could you please please link it up again or Email it to my email cagiva4ever at yahoo com

The ones im looking at are used hence half price compered to new, and new1 would cost 15~20euro's. So far used parts that i have bought of him have been very good condition.
After my trusty UK minimoto parts seller has done the used parts pile inventory for the Minimoto reduction GearBoxes, i would need to identify the Boxes he has, i shall get some photos from him etc and after that ill come back here with them.

The rear rim Sprocket (german made1) that i have is not soft and is stiff in all directions, as i have already tested it. There is absolutely no problems what so ever on its Durability or Flexibility.
Teeth count is 44t (Diam 175mm. pitch 12,6mm. 415chain fits perfectly) .im not anyway looking for a top speed on this bike, hence it being maybe 20~30mm bigger diam that some other people have.
Bike tyre size is 26 inches.


ill wait if you can show the photo(s) from the GearBox 5:1 of yours and maybe tell me if its still available from somewhere maybe ?

bye
m

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

hi !

these are not the soft China made sprockets or anything like that. in Fi they are as STD on Suzuki rm50cc and 80cc engines without any durability problems. These will last easyly thousands of kilometres :
https://sparewheel.fi/images/390.jpg.jpg

The GearBox that you bought of ebay for 23$ , Do you know what was its Origin meaning vehicle sales name ? maybe it could help me as an info of source/origin when i compere my findings..

Photo is missing from the Post that you made previously, it didnt get Pasted.. Could you please please link it up again or Email it to my email cagiva4ever at yahoo com

The ones im looking at are used hence half price compered to new, and new1 would cost 15~20euro's. So far used parts that i have bought of him have been very good condition.
After my trusty UK minimoto parts seller has done the used parts pile inventory for the Minimoto reduction GearBoxes, i would need to identify the Boxes he has, i shall get some photos from him etc and after that ill come back here with them.

The rear rim Sprocket (german made1) that i have is not soft and is stiff in all directions, as i have already tested it. There is absolutely no problems what so ever on its Durability or Flexibility.
Teeth count is 44t (Diam 175mm. pitch 12,6mm. 415chain fits perfectly) .im not anyway looking for a top speed on this bike, hence it being maybe 20~30mm bigger diam that some other people have.
Bike tyre size is 26 inches.


ill wait if you can show the photo(s) from the GearBox 5:1 of yours and maybe tell me if its still available from somewhere maybe ?

bye
m

This is the sprocket which slips onto the 5:1 gearbox.
Fancy Scooter: Gas Scooters and Electric Scooters Retail and Wholesale

This is the gearbox from the same website:

http://www.fancyscooters.com/item00313-scooter-part-transmission.html

Same transmission, cheaper cost:
http://thatsdax.com/ENGINE_KIT_PARTS_PAGE_4.html

Same trans, shows measurement and model number:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TRAN...orcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_2787wt_1165

I have had oil leak problems on these boxes, so I fill it with grease, not oil. No problems so far.

 

[Cagiva4ever]

hi !

today i visited the neighbour town (90km away) moped-bicycle shop. there i measured Fauber type Sprocket 46teeth as a Diameter compered against mine 44t. 46t had Diameter 180mm.
This exactly: Etuketjupyörä 1/2x3/32 46h Voimansiirto

i also took a risk and bought 10teeth 415 chain type Pitch 12,6mm Sprocket, this:
http://shop.emc24.fi/images/webkuvat/midi/E2020.jpg

i have now also found a (another) seller for the Reduction Box 5:1 that "5-7heaven" showed.

also my trusty minimoto parts seller from UK emailed me some photos of his used Reduction box 4sale, and now he is checking the internal Ratio from it.

This:
Other Stuff for MC :: DSC08194.jpg picture by Cagiva4ever - Photobucket

Other Stuff for MC :: DSC08191.jpg picture by Cagiva4ever - Photobucket

is somebody experienced enough to calculate from that photo, what is the internal Ratio on the box ?
9teeth & 29teeth, is that like 29:9= 3,22. Yep that is the "bad" Reduction Ratio Box.
bye
m

currently im wondering what is the std mainjet size on the China made/cloned Dellorto PHBG19bs copy carb, as it sure aint same as Dellorto's #85 on bs model. Feels to be more like a 95. Jetting work continues.....all jet's etc parts are left without size markings.
on the China version the idle jet was 4sure size #50 as std.

i have noticed that some people here have bought the China made/cloned Dellorto SHA carbs.

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

Your 44t rear sprocket and 10t engine sprocket = 4.4:1...
That 48t sprocket w/10t sprocket = 4.8:1....

That 3.22 reduction box with 4.4:1 = 14.17:1
The 3.22 box w/4.8:1 = 15.46:1

My 8th gear highway gear = 14.32:1
My 7th gear highway gear = 15.5:1

My 1st gear = 32.36:1 and I could use 36.26:1. This would be great on a standing start or climbing very steep hills.

You will not have good performance with your combination.

 

[Cagiva4ever]

im amazed what amount of **** are you guys posting onto this topic, most of the input is totally of the rails compered to my writings.

how can some1 get an idea that i would start doing Friction Drive when i have already the bike build and almoust ready.

and secondly i dont yet have any of the Reduction Box version so how can anything be "my combination yet". Retards is only thing im gonna say for now, im pissed.


anyway i have now found out that the China cloned PHBG18xx has mainjet size 0,91 as std. oem Mainjet kit for the carb contains mainjets: 0,90 0,92 0,93 0,94 0,95. Most of those are like middle sizes compered to Genuine Dellorto Jets which are 90 , 92 , 95


also earlyer mentioned 5:1 Reduction Box has been paid during past week and it is in halfway of its Journey to my home.

as a future plans on another bicycle projects:
i have a Stiga Weedeater engine that i might try as a Friction Drive to a another bicycle frame that i have which is "20 kids bike......also i have another new Cagllari engine. Just sold away the Cagllari's original bad design Carb and thx to that my 2 new cagllari engine's and 3rd half1 have been all2gether total cost 20euro's purchase

 

[5-7HEAVEN]

What we have here...is a failure to communicate (Cool Hand Luke movie, 1967)
We speak English, you're Finnish. There's gonna be misunderstandings, especially on Internet, even in face-to-face.

No harm, no foul.

No need to get upset. We're all here to help each other out.

Friction drive guys think theirs is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Happy Time guys, Staton guys, Scooterguy riders, DIY bikers. We ALL think ours is the best, and everyone should be like us.

LOL, no harm, no foul. Aint no big thing, brother.

When I say "your combination", I mean the combination you are THINKING about using, not the combination you already built.

Of course, I can keep my mouth shut, let you build what you think will work. If know it will fail, but I say nothing and let you spend time and money to build something that will not work...

Now what kind of a friend is that?

It's better and cheaper to learn from other people's mistakes. You do not have to believe us or take our advice.

You can always build it the way you think is right.

 

[Cagiva4ever]

My Hybrid is now build.

yesterday i had 3 hours ride with it after midnight. it runs great, is very powerfull and pulls wheelyes by throttle . i havent deared to use more than 1/2 throttle yet as its so speedy. S-shape cornering is awesome, no weight issues or anything shaky clitchy turning issues

even that Carb settings arent yet as lean as possible with being safe, the power & torq is awesome. i can literally cruise with surface throttle and get boost with less than 1/2 throttle upto being scary because not having yet my adjustable chain tensioner in place.

i had a "awesome" setback when i had my 1st test "ride" as my Plans & Design had some changes/adapting during project i had totally forgotten 1 important fact about 5:1 Reduction GearBox, meaning i had a spinning start but only Backwards, as 5:1 makes bike to run Backwards if engine is facing/placed on bike normal way/direction.

as 5:1 box has only 2 gears inside it against eachother, it changes rotation direction, 3 gears would make Rotation Direction normal.

So i had to Reverse my ignition and make the Cag engine to run Backwards to fix the 5:1 Box issue. So no more std Cag PullStart and Cooling is maybe 30% less than normal but all works perfectly good. Last evenings/nights ride was done in +28Celsius and wet humidity. winter 2011 parts project will be Custom making Suitable PullStart assy......i wanna be able to PullStart the engine while still pedaling...Currently im PullStarting the engine in same direction as its running meaning backwards.

with my piticular engine and 5:1 box i had to shim the Box/clutchBell out/Off-set 2,9mm. with 2 std M6 washers. with 1 washer the Drum touched Casing. My Clutch Drum/bell is 18,4mm Deep, the 5:1 Box manufacturer is Unknown but it has a "Wavy" looking Logo on it for Manufacturer (ive seen so far 3 diff manufacturer logo's for same 5:1 Box)

into my 5:1 Box i added Grease Nipple and packed it with it. its relatively noise Thx to gears in it. Guestion to other people who have same 5:1 Box, is your Box noisy ? the gears in my Box are Hex Cut and noise is same no matter which rotation Direction.

ohh and 3-shoe clutch is also now Spinning Backwards but works perfectly, even that the each Friction Shoe's Pivot bolts are kinda in wrong end now compered to Rotation direction. Means that in theory it needs now more Centrifugal force to make Clutch open wide.

Ride's & Progress etc To be Continued in my Youtube Channel.....later 2011 winter racing vids....

bye
m