Brand new engine has hole in cylinder near stud. :(

Discussion in 'Motorized Bicycle General Discussion' started by Nomad, Aug 20, 2008.

  1. Nomad

    Nomad New Member

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    Since I am a newbie, could you elaborate on this info. I am not familiar with any other fourum or issues with the vendor (EPA chatter?), I appreciate it, as I am interested in buying another engine for another bike probably a 48cc... thanks
    Bob
     
  2. Bikeguy Joe

    Bikeguy Joe Godfather of Motorized Bicycles

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    Please be sure to leave him a review in the vendor review forum.
     
    #22 Bikeguy Joe, Aug 22, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2008
  3. Bikeguy Joe

    Bikeguy Joe Godfather of Motorized Bicycles

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    There is another forum or two pertaining to motorbicycling. One can be very hostile/rude to folks for reasons unknown, especially those not in the "clique". At one point I believe they were on a psuedo crusade against any vendor not selling "EPA approved" engines/kits. That was due to one particular member who overly endorses his brand of engine kit, much to the dismay and disinformation of many.

    Long story short, you aren't missing anything unless you thrive on drama queen type stuff and motorbicycling is secondary.:crash:
     
  4. Nomad

    Nomad New Member

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    Thanks Bikeguy Joe, thanks for the info. I have no use for the drama crap, this guy has been very forthcoming with me, and I expect him to do what he says he will. And any group that thinks that a 2 stroke engine can REALLY be environmentally friendly is not too smart. The only redeeming quality about small 2 strokes is JUST that they are SMALL. Thanks for the input. I used to frequent a gunsite where the members also had the "clique" mentality, I realized that i had no tolerance for the "nonsense"....
    Bob
     
  5. comfortableshoes

    comfortableshoes New Member

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    I'm a member of 2 forums. I like this one. This forum doesn't make me feel like carp for riding a bike with a weedwacker on it. the members of the other forum tend to belittle/make fun of a lot of things. I like 4 strokes and I love my weedwackers... I used to read over there and post a lot, but wondered why afterward I felt bad after..

    I still read over there but I've come to learn that there is a lot of flaming and no good useless posts by a few militant people.

    A2Zonline deals started a thread as RAW and they flamed him to death. :crash:

    Anyway. there's a lot of good onfo here and there, but there you have to take it with a dose of drama.
     
  6. Nomad

    Nomad New Member

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    Too bad for them.... they FAIL..... I rather like the idea of improvising the use of an engine and other equipment to do something entirely different from which it was intended... it's the American ingenuity that created this great Nation .. anyone that would belittle another for that is clearly a moron.
    Too bad they flamed that a2zonline vendor.. he's been easy to deal with so far...
     
  7. azbill

    azbill Active Member

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    much nicer feel to this place :)
    drama free !!!
     
  8. Venice Motor Bikes

    Venice Motor Bikes Custom Builder / Dealer/Los Angeles

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    I know this is really off the topic, but...
    As far as the environmental issuses go,
    I look at our 2-strokes like this...
    How many miles will this engine transport a person on 1 gallon of gas compared to a normal car?
    & how much crud is being put into the air from 1 gallon of gas being burned, instead of 5 or 6 gallons?
     
    #28 Venice Motor Bikes, Aug 27, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2008
  9. eDJ

    eDJ New Member

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    As I read thru the thread and look at the photos showing the hole it seems simple to me what the problem is. I don't think it's much of a problem though with so many having it and not reporting oil leaks, high idle speeds etc because of it. It appears to be a mold that needs to be ground out further where the hole is occuring.

    When the machining for the head studs is performed there isn't as much metal
    on that one stud boss as there should be and the drilling cuts thru the "too thin portion" of the cylinder casting and that creates the hole. Continuing to run them in production is just poor quality control but if anyone reads some of the books on China and their industrial revolution they will understand why they are more focused on running numbers over quality. Personally I doubt the Chinese companies that manufacture these bicycle motors would worry much about this problem. The Japanese, however, would be concerned.

    The suggestion to apply some liquid steel or JB Weld would be a viable solution. Still, I doubt there would ever be any problems in the usefull life span of this motor to arise because of this. If someone receives such a motor kit it would probably be a good idea to apply the JB Weld before using the engine.

    I'm stating this as my opinion and how I would handle it if I were faced with the situation. But somewhere in China a machinist needs to grind a few more mm out of the mold the cylinder is cast from around the location of that one head stud. (so the drilling won't cut thru the casting thus creating that hole) The problem looks much worse than it is.
     
    #29 eDJ, Aug 27, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2008
  10. Nomad

    Nomad New Member

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    Thanks again for the input. eDJ I was going to take the advise of filling the hole with JB weld or as Macaddict suggested, some "fast steel", but I was concerned that it would stick to the stud when it hardened and then if I ever did have to take the jug off it would be "stuck" due the repair... I havent run the engine yet so, what is your feeling on that... If I did the repair, would you suggest taking the jug off to do it?.

    P.S. I did get my missing parts from the vendor by priority mail 2 days later. So I would say he's shown a willingness to make sure a customer is taken care of.

    Thanks.
    Bob
     
    #30 Nomad, Aug 27, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2008
  11. NEAT TIMES

    NEAT TIMES New Member

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    I Would Just Run It. It Seals With The Head And Base Gasket.
     
  12. Nomad

    Nomad New Member

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    would the jb weld or fast steel stick to the stud? thereby making it diffucult or impossible to slide the jug off the studs?
     
  13. Saddletramp1200

    Saddletramp1200 Custom MB Buiilder

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    The only thing I see is maybe dirt or Water getting in and going to the bottom end. J.B. weld and silver paint should do the trick! Your the 2nd member that did not get a rear sprocket. It may be drug testing time for Ebay? rotfl I know, It ain't funny (c)
     
  14. eDJ

    eDJ New Member

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    If I were looking to repair this I'd first pull the head and look down the stud to see if there is any gap at all between the stud and the bore. If there is some room then it would be possible to slip a thin piece of gasket or paper card stock wrapped around the stud down to where you can see it thru the hole. The best way would be to pull the cylinder off off the engine and pack the stud bore where the hole has the best backing before applying the JB Weld to
    build up that thin area. But that's a piece of work for a novice. Consider the buyer expects rightfully to receive a motor kit that is free from flaws such as this one.

    At that point there is a backing to the hole that the JB Weld or Liquid Steel could be applied to and the gasket serve as a barrier between the cylinder and the stud itself. The gasket material could be left in place until such time as the cylinder is pulled for honing for new ring(s). By that time the gasket material may only be ashes.

    As has been pointed out water or condensation entering thru the hole in that area could lead to a build up of rust or corrosion and create a condition that would make it difficult to pull the jug when the maintenance interval comes.

    I think this issue should be posted far and wide so those producing these cylinders will make the necessary changes to the molds. If the word gets out
    and sales slow on this motor kit then that will motovate the corrective measures faster than anything. If this was a complete motor vehicle from China there would be a recall.
     
  15. Saddletramp1200

    Saddletramp1200 Custom MB Buiilder

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    Bravo, DJ! I agree completly! All tho these motors are not really expensive they are a lot of money. If I were to repair it I would use a grinding wheel on a hand held grinder and remove the cast until square. Bend some steel to match the cast and fill with J.B. Weld, paint and reassemble. If we permit them to sell us a bad product it will just get worse. If we say nothing they assume we don't care!
     
  16. ebmvegan

    ebmvegan New Member

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    A mentor once told me, "Action ignored is action accepted." Everyone make sure that from who ever you purchase from, inspect it and then leave a feed back for all to see. Vendors will be forced to take a closer look at their products if reviews are hurting sales.
     
  17. Bikeguy Joe

    Bikeguy Joe Godfather of Motorized Bicycles

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    I think that the bad feedback thing will hurt sales very little, as evidenced by people continuing to buy from ebay sellers with poor feedback.
     
  18. Bikeguy Joe

    Bikeguy Joe Godfather of Motorized Bicycles

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    Plus the fact that no one would even know that hole was there is someone didn't mention it to them.......

    If they (chinese) start fixing inferior castings, then they are going to have to fix everything else on the China In-Frame kits until it's a Honda and cost as much.
     
  19. Nomad

    Nomad New Member

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    Thanks for the excellent suggestions. I went ahead and applied a little JB weld to the hole. Based on the fact that a few other guys have the same hole and even in the same place with no ill effects, I figured it shouldn't affect the engine adversly. Now I just have to wait for a little cooler temps to install on my "cruiser" bike. I think I will appreciate the coaster brake, it will eliminate the extra cables, and "mechanicals" of hand brakes, real simple throttle, clutch, and GOoooooooo..
     
  20. eDJ

    eDJ New Member

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    As a final thought on this, I once knew this guy who was building up a motorcycle junk yard. I met him when he was talking to a mechanic buddy of mine at a dealership and they were talking about the market and business of used bike parts.

    I remember him taking about the nature of the different riders. I'm sure the Chinese may see things similar to his views as well. He said, "I'd rather sell used parts to guys with street & road bikes who take care of them cause they want things right and will pay to keep their rides up and in good working condition". "Dirt bike riders are the worst........when they are riding in the woods and something breaks down they'll slap anything on it that will get them running again and care less". He went on to say they would use a part of a Jeep it they thought it would work. But his view of dirt bikes was....."what the hey........they are just destroying them while having their fun". And not really want to put any money back into them.

    Perhaps the Asian manufactures have already figured.....hey what the heck....these are just going to be used by boys and the life span of them
    will probably just be a summer or two till they trash them and get a car. Then they'll forget all about their bicycles.....and the bike passed on to the scrap heap. (how readily available are repair parts for these ?) Some of us are familiar with the term, "Dynamic Oblescence".

    I've been quite impressed at the effort and "love" so many I'm among on this board put into their rides. I'm left wondering if those in China are actually aware of it.....or it's only a production oriented view they have that translates into money for them. Consider the many short comings of these things we discuss here and how people purchase these without express warrenties.....and even anticipate major tear downs and overhauls to keep them running.

    I would hope the Chinese manufacturers would at least repair the mold for the
    cylinder if only for the sake of the after-market here. That is, assuming these kits with holes in the cylinders weren't something sold "off market" for cheap to a jobber who saw a quick buck selling them on eBay as they didn't pass quality control back in China. But time will tell on these cylinders.
     

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