A little perspective.

TigerToothBikes.com

TigerToothBikes.com

UK Dealer
Jims sacred limited edition twelve engines and the power that binds them (lord of the rings?) had me thinking.

A good portion of this forum is dedicated to gripes about the quality of the NTJL engine aka China Girl /Happy Time. And how it could be improved, or better manufactured.

But lets not get carried away.

Mass Manufacturing brings the price of goods to affordable levels, but more often than not at a sacrifice.

Lets take the automobile. Once a preserve of the rich and a play thing for the aristocracy, is now a machine upon which people, economies nay civilisations now rely. Leaving out the recent environmental concerns one would could say thats a good thing. Yet there have been inevitable sacrifices along the way.
Most early "quadricycles" and automobiles were undoubtably little portions of superbly crafted and engineered magnificence built to last and many still do, unlike the throw away cars we drive today.

My point is this. There are many of us including myself who would be willing to pay that bit extra for a damn good quality engine, but that is only after buying, playing with, and subsequently learning from, a cheap one. If the cheapys didn't exist i wouldn't be writing this, i'd still be dreaming.
So i say lets treat them as we would a Durex, enjoy the crazy pleasure they bring while it lasts but be ready to bin it for safetys sake and move on without crying about it....

(That analogy has but a smile on my face! heheheh)
 
My daddy sued to say this, long before it got to be a popular phrase. Charlie it is what it is.

I love the cheap throw away engine kits. I don't have one anymore, but I love them just as they are, warts and all. They caught on and got amazingly popular in spite of all their problems. I think it was because of what they are not.

I have a brother who used to talk about the space race like this. A Russian rocket is a like a big ben alarm clock and a us rocket is like a fine watch. One grain of sand in a fine watch and needs an overhaul but you can throw a big ben against wall and it still runs, if not you trash it and buy another one. That's how I see the china kit. So what if I abuse it till it won't run anymore I just get another one.

The purpose of any vehicle in my mind is to take me from A to B. When I get out and go into the store, I am there no matter how I got there. The trip on a motorized bike being fun is just a bonus.
 
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I agree completely!
An old car parts joke once said:,I can't beleve they can make a 10 thousand dollar car out of a million dollars of parts. I think that will make some perspective..shft.
 
I look at it as a perfect circle. :D

Without the kits I would not have anything to improve. It would be all or nothing on my end...all ,meaning a $1,500.00 kit that very few would purchase.

Without the improvements: a second level of reliability and power are not available.

It's no different than the vast amount of aftermarket, high performance, parts for the small block chevy.

You can build an $800.00 basic stock small block.

Or you can build a $10,000.00 high performance version.

Choices make things more fun.

Jim
 
I think the reason for my little ponder is a run of bad customers here in the UK. Yes times are tight and we understand and accomodate those embarrassed by "buyers remorse" but to moan about a product not being "up to expectation" when you paid peanuts for it is damn ridiculous. Added to the fact those who do not understand mechanics complaining a tried and tested engine is faulty because they couldn't be bothered to do a bit of googling!

GRRRRRR!

Anyhoo i know im preaching to the choir here.

Love you guys - ALL OF YOU. hehehehe
 
deacon said:
I have a brother who used to talk about the space race like this. A Russian rocket is a like a big ben alarm clock and a us rocket is like a fine watch. One grain of sand in a fine watch and needs an overhaul but you can throw a big ben against wall and it still runs, if not you trash it and buy another one. That's how I see the china kit. So what if I abuse it till it won't run anymore I just get another one.

deacon, while in Viet Nam, we used to compare our M-16 rifle with the enemy's AK-47 rifle. Our "fine" weapon would jam if you neglected to clean the bolt assembly after the last firing. I had been advised that the Chi-Com was built with less quality control and more tolerances and was more reliable.:-||

Same deal when comparing the old Porsche 356 four-cylinder engine with the dependable VW 1200-1600cc air-cooled engine.
Click to expand...
 
Same deal with the SA-80 LA1 rifle when i served in the British Army. The LA2 was supposed to be better but its not - to the point where the PARA's are also trained to use the AK-47!

Some tribesmen leave their weapons buried in the sand and dig em out to pop at passing patrols, try that with an M16 or SA80 and watch it explode into your face!
 
yea i had a chinese mak-90 and the interior is basically empty and you can see all the inner workings

i doubt that gun would ever jam up....a few smacks on the side and all the sand would fall right out

it wasnt as pretty as a finely milled and manufactured ak-47 but it did the job
 
The China engine made me appear much manlier to the world when I rode. People actually thought I was this awesome tinkerer of things I could pretty much tinker with anything and it would fly.
People and friends and not admittedly but you can tell family members and in laws as much as they poke fun of you at the same time have a respect for you as well.
All that from the most simplest of 2 strokes I have ever had the pleasure of owning.
Everyone knew that my engine blew a bearing and everyone around the neighborhood knew it sat around while I rode Cronus and then the Buggy Bike.
But then when MOOP2 came back to life everyone saw that I had rebuilt that simple little engine.
I get respect from engine builders and mechanics taking a smoke break at their shops they always wave me over when I pass by so they can see just what I did this time.
New car dealers be giving me this look like I'm changing customers minds about buying a new car or something.
And I don't weld and I don't have thousands of dollars in quality tools.
The China engine changed my life.
No joke.
And slowly I've been trying to improve on my rides yesterday I made a double bracket on the Buggy Bike OMG that thing will not move it is on there good.
And my wife is always asking me why I'll just sit out there staring at my bikes for hours.
And I tell her "Because these are my babies."
 
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Large Filipino said:
The China engine made me appear much manlier to the world when I rode. People actually thought I was this awesome tinkerer of things I could pretty much tinker with anything and it would fly.
People and friends and not admittedly but you can tell family members and in laws as much as they poke fun of you at the same time have a respect for you as well.
All that from the most simplest of 2 strokes I have ever had the pleasure of owning.
Everyone knew that my engine blew a bearing and everyone around the neighborhood knew it sat around while I rode Cronus and then the Buggy Bike.
But then when MOOP2 came back to life everyone saw that I had rebuilt that simple little engine.
I get respect from engine builders and mechanics taking a smoke break at their shops they always wave me over when I pass by so they can see just what I did this time.
New car dealers be giving me this look like I'm changing customers minds about buying a new car or something.
And I don't weld and I don't have thousands of dollars in quality tools.
The China engine changed my life.
No joke.
And slowly I've been trying to improve on my rides yesterday I made a double bracket on the Buggy Bike OMG that thing will not move it is on there good.
And my wife is always asking me why I'll just sit out there staring at my bikes for hours.
And I tell her "Because these are my babies."
Click to expand...

I and i'm sure many many others here couldn't agree more with you. And yes, they really do become special to you and give you pleasure but only because you have and are willing to dedicate the time and love required rather than the attitude of oh its not working, must be broken, in the bin with it.

This is also the trouble with our modern cars, if our old VW's, Chevy's Fords etc broke down, up went the bonnet and you had a jolly good play. If you fixed it, that car then owed its life to you and became that much more special. Now, if you don't have a laptop handy, your screwed!
 
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The China engine was never meant to go 35 mph as much as the ads say. Of course with the right gearing or Pablo's kit you can ride that fast safely but no engine will last if kept at redline as your cruising speed.
The China engine I believe is a perfect engine because it tests your... everything as far as patience and restraint. That little 2 stroke just wants to scream. Only YOU can control that urge to go all out.
When it breaks down it tests your willingness to continue. It's like a journey. Just how far do you want to go down that rabbit hole?
That's why it rules. I'm still going down that rabbit hole.
 
I have many years on mc and I use to race them and what I believe is the common problem is that the vast majority are trying to get mc performance out of these simple underpowered toy like engines. I use mine conservatively because its not really designed to take any real punishment. But there will always be guys that are going to push it for all it's worth. Some young guys get there little japanese cars set up with loud exhaust pipes trying to make like they have a hot rod when all they really accomplish is there lack of reality, they don't see how foolish they really are. If you use the bike in a commuter fashion and not try to impress your friends with speeds that will surely get police to notice, you'll be better off.
 
Wise words FM2200. I rarely exceed 15mph a) cars pulling out don't expect bikes to be travelling at 30mph! b) thats the limitation for electrics. I ride defensively and sensibly and although it appears these bikes are illegal vehicles in the uk (unregistered) i have never been noticed by the boys in blue. I think the key reason being ghost pedalling and travelling at cyclist speeds keeps me under the radar and i'm not hurting/causing a nuisance to anyone. I view the fact im not actually pedalling the thing to be important not the top speed.
 
I guess I'm a little spoiled in Phoenix. I've got a 9 mile drive to work but more than half of that is on (paved) canal banks for bicycles, pedestrians, and equine only. On the streets I'll never go over 20 mph, but those canals are empty and smooth.
 
Performance is a double edge sword, and largely misunderstood!

There is, of course, the idea of raw torque and horsepower being the performance goal.

But there is also reliability, smoothness, and a general feeling that the machine as a whole is functioning correctly. This is "real" performance.

The latter is my litmus test. Everytime I ride a new bike, I'm not concerned with how fast it will go. I'm checking to see if it feels like I'm riding an Ill fitted, clattering, pile of junk; or not.

If the components do not compliment each other, you end up with a poor performing assembly.

A high performance engine powered bike is one that does its job as intended over-and-over again, and provides a safe comfortable ride.

Jim
 
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